FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[seinfeld]

Here is an interesting quote from Wooster's AD in the local paper today (http://www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/4841717):

However, this may not be the last move for the league.

"It will be interesting to see how other things work out," Beckett said. "We are back to 10 schools, but there has been talk of expanding beyond that."

One possibility could be NCAC East and West Divisions, although Beckett said he was not sure of any timetable for expansion. Any invitations to join the NCAC are voted on by the league's presidents.

I'm not sure what the need would be to expand a Div. III conference beyond 10 teams, but you know that these presidents are watching what is happening in Div. I and feel the need to at least explore it. I would think the next likely team to join the NCAC would be Washington & Jefferson. They are a solid academic school with Phi Beta Kappa. They have two sports (field hockey & men's lacrosse) that the NCAC is short in. They are also near a large market (Pittsburgh) and would provide some balance to the east, which I'm sure Allegheny, and to a lesser extent Wooster, Hiram and Oberlin would appreciate.

After that, I think the school that they should try to get back is Case. They were an original member of the NCAC until they left after the 1999-2000 season to go full time to the UAA. At some point, you would think they would get tired of the costs and effort to travel to all the other UAA schools. I wonder if it ever got to be that being in a non-AQ football conference hurt their chances of getting into the playoffs, not helping, if it would help spur the move.

If the NCAC is looking for two 7-team divisions to get two AQs (I believe this would work, but I'm not completely positive), I would think Carnegie Mellon and Centre would be likely targets.

[wally_wabash]

Division I conference expansion is about the consolidation of televi$ion sets  and nothing else.  I don't see the NCAC Network popping up anytime soon in the sports tier of your DirectTV package.  14 teams and two divisions probably serves to drive a wedge in the conference more than promote conference unity.  10 teams is a perfect number.  If you've got two seven teams divisions, each with their own AQ, then what else does one set of seven teams need from the other?  Sounds more like two seven team conferences more than it sounds like two divisions of the same conference to me. 

[smedindy]

A 10 team D-3 conference is perfect in almost every sport.

DPU brings not only a good football presence to the NCAC, but they are competitive in many other sports - mens' and womens'.

They've won the SCAC President's Trophy five years in a row. Quite the switch from the Quakers.

[smedindy]

I also believe that adding DPU into the mix can help the NCAC be in line for a "C" almost every year. Of course, competing with the OAC and CCIW in the regional rankings will be tough, but replacing the Quakers with the Tigers can only help all the calculations.

[smedindy]

Oh, and one more question (I've been busy and getting busier...)

Does this mean the NCAC / UAA deal is dead after 2011?

[wally_wabash]

Oh, and one more question (I've been busy and getting busier...)

Does this mean the NCAC / UAA deal is dead after 2011?

I think somebody noticed that CWRU was hunting for games in 2012 over on the UAA board...it kind of looks like it might be. 

[Ralph Turner]

Here is an interesting quote from Wooster's AD in the local paper today (http://www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/4841717):

However, this may not be the last move for the league.

"It will be interesting to see how other things work out," Beckett said. "We are back to 10 schools, but there has been talk of expanding beyond that."

One possibility could be NCAC East and West Divisions, although Beckett said he was not sure of any timetable for expansion. Any invitations to join the NCAC are voted on by the league's presidents.

I'm not sure what the need would be to expand a Div. III conference beyond 10 teams, but you know that these presidents are watching what is happening in Div. I and feel the need to at least explore it. I would think the next likely team to join the NCAC would be Washington & Jefferson. They are a solid academic school with Phi Beta Kappa. They have two sports (field hockey & men's lacrosse) that the NCAC is short in. They are also near a large market (Pittsburgh) and would provide some balance to the east, which I'm sure Allegheny, and to a lesser extent Wooster, Hiram and Oberlin would appreciate.

After that, I think the school that they should try to get back is Case. They were an original member of the NCAC until they left after the 1999-2000 season to go full time to the UAA. At some point, you would think they would get tired of the costs and effort to travel to all the other UAA schools. I wonder if it ever got to be that being in a non-AQ football conference hurt their chances of getting into the playoffs, not helping, if it would help spur the move.

If the NCAC is looking for two 7-team divisions to get two AQs (I believe this would work, but I'm not completely positive), I would think Carnegie Mellon and Centre would be likely targets.

Unfortunately, AQ's are not given to divisions, as the 15-team now 16-team ASC knows.  In Division III you need a distinct conference with administration, by-laws, infra-structure and budget to be recognized as an AQ conference.

The Middle Atlantic Corporation (MAC) is the most sophisticated entity in D-III.  They are three distinct conferences that qualify for AQ's in the unique sports which each sponsors.

[UChicago Maroon]

14 team League for Football only.  How about this one?

10 NCAC teams and the 4 UAA teams make up  East/West Divisions.  Case + CMU play in the east, while Chicago + wash U play in the west. 
The UAA still have games available to play the other two UAA teams not in their NCAC/UAA division so they are happy.  The presidents of the NCAC schools would enjoy the association from  the academic alignment.

Think about it?

[wally_wabash]

14 team League for Football only.  How about this one?

10 NCAC teams and the 4 UAA teams make up  East/West Divisions.  Case + CMU play in the east, while Chicago + wash U play in the west. 
The UAA still have games available to play the other two UAA teams not in their NCAC/UAA division so they are happy.  The presidents of the NCAC schools would enjoy the association from  the academic alignment.

Think about it?

Or, and I know this is radical, why don't the other UAA teams start playing football so that the four of you aren't in no man's land in October?  Making sure the four UAA football teams have games to play in October shouldn't be the burden of the NCAC to bear.  They'll have done it for four years after the current agreement expires...isn't that enough?

[Ralph Turner]

14 team League for Football only.  How about this one?

10 NCAC teams and the 4 UAA teams make up  East/West Divisions.  Case + CMU play in the east, while Chicago + wash U play in the west. 
The UAA still have games available to play the other two UAA teams not in their NCAC/UAA division so they are happy.  The presidents of the NCAC schools would enjoy the association from  the academic alignment.

Think about it?

That is perfectly fine with the rest of D-III. Those 14 teams can then funnel into one conference championship game, as they have in the NEFC.

The four UAA schools are now considered affiliates of the NCAC, and therefore move out of the allocation to Pool B.

This leaves Pool B with only seven members in 2012.  (Off the top of my head, Huntingdon. LaGrange, Wesley, Stevenson, Macalester, Chapman, and Finlandia.)  That is not enough for a Pool B bid, and so we end up with 25 Pool A AQ's in 2012 (current 23 plus the ECFC and the UMAC in 2011) and 7 Pool C bids.

Net gain is a Pool C bid and the loss of a Pool B.

[Pat Coleman]

My first thought yesterday when someone mentioned 12 NCAC teams was that I wasn't sure the Monon Bell teams would be so keen on that game moving out of Week 11.

[wally_wabash]

Given the choice between playing the Monon Bell game on the 11th week of the season, or playing a game between divisional "champions" in a bloated football-only league, I'll keep the rivalry tradition intact. 

What exactly does the NCAC get from this arrangement?  The UAA gets access to a pool A and they get a geographically reasonable (environmentally responsible??  ) schedule in October.  The NCAC gets....to say that we played football against top level research institutions?  Wha?  I'm just not seeing the incentive for the NCAC's 10 teams sharing their one pool A bid with the four UAA teams (read: slimmer access to the tournament for NCAC member institutions). 

[bashbrother]

Has anyone heard a logical explanation of why the Big 12 is imploding?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Has anyone heard a logical explanation of why the Big 12 is imploding?

$$$

[bashbrother]

I realize $$$ is a major part of big time College Sports.   But it is not like the Big 12 isn't getting 4 or 5 or more teams in a bowl and numerous national TV appearances.   Are you talking about how the conference is currently splitting the revenue?