FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[wally_wabash]

I suspect I will draw incoming ... but the advent of ER and Wabash penalties ... per Wally's list ... cross. 

If the tradeoff for making the national championship tournament every year is leading the NCAC in penalty yardage, I'm in.  

I didn't realize McKee was leading the nation in yards per game...YIKES.  How about the last 4 games being decided on the last play of the game???  That is crazy!!!  I can't wait for Saturday!

Even if you wipe out the ridiculous game McKee had against WashU, his per game numbers are still pretty awesome.  Limiting his production will be a factor, but I think Wabash is up to the challenge.  This group of DBs has done a very good job this year, IMO.  They locked up Chicago's receivers pretty well (those guys aren't so bad, are they Case fans?), did a good job on Oberlin's group, and absolutely shut down TJ Salopek last week (though that was a lot about the DL getting pressure).  It will be a good matchup between McKee and the Wabash secondary on Saturday.  

[DadofBashWarrior..]

I suspect I will draw incoming ... but the advent of ER and Wabash penalties ... per Wally's list ... cross.  Perhaps a cooincidence.  But I think ER - while not wanting stupid penalties such as offside (and we have not conquered that), allows (encourages) aggressive positive play peformed properly and within the rules  ... which while good ... will cause penalties in the mind of officials accoustomed to the likes of Earlham/Kenyon etc. type teams.

Most likely not far from the truth.  Mount has always been known to draw its fair amount (more than fair if you are a Mount fan  ) of penalties that are of the aggressive nature.  LK was commenting on that in a story (I think in a football coaches magazine), and indicated he didn't mind the penalties, because it meant his team was playing in an aggressive, tough manner.

Just what do you think LK's thoughts would be of a player being 3 or 4 yards offsides on a "kickoff"...in the 4th quarter...with the score tied...playing for the conference championship...aggressive?...or undisciplined? From what I have heard about him (LK)..he wants it done right...always...every time...so much so that the way he runs the practice is they run the play till they get it right

To me...that is coaching...coaching does not allow these type of plays to happen...a disciplined team has all the earmarks of greatness by playing like Wildmen...within the boundaries of being disciplined...

[wally_wabash]

Just what do you think LK's thoughts would be of a player being 3 or 4 yards offsides on a "kickoff"...in the 4th quarter...with the score tied...playing for the conference championship...aggressive?...or undisciplined?

I think we can probably turn the page on this one.  The kid made a mistake.  It's unfair to pin last year's result on that one single play.  That one single penalty is not an indictment of the player or the program. 

[bishopowu]

AUEAGLE,

will u be at any of the last two OWU games? OWU @ Oberlin or Senior Day OWU Vs Hiram...it would be great to see you there.

[firstdown]

I have no doubt that Coach Raeburn wants his players to be aggressive on the field.  Of course, that doesn't mean he wants them picking up stupid penalties.  Remember the old adage of wanting players to be "agile, mobile and hostile."
As the replay from Saturday clearly shows, Dan Ryan Wood's hit on Salopek was good, agressive play within the rules.  Why do you think that on those rare times when Payton Manning throws an interception, he  gets out of the way?  Salopek was in hot pursuit of the Wabash player who intercepted his pass and he had become a tackler and in so doing had lost his protection as the quarterback except in the mind of the idiot ref who made the unnecessary roughness call.  Clearly that ref either doesn't know the rules of football, or is used to calling football games played by third and fourth graders.   All of the players in the NCAC deserve officials that call games according to the rules and in a consistent manner.

Also keep in mind that players are more apt to get hurt when they pull back and don't give it 100%. 

[Pat Coleman]

Latest regional rankings posted:
http://d3blogs.com/d3football/2010/11/03/ncaas-second-regional-rankings/

[DadofBashWarrior..]

Just what do you think LK's thoughts would be of a player being 3 or 4 yards offsides on a "kickoff"...in the 4th quarter...with the score tied...playing for the conference championship...aggressive?...or undisciplined?

I think we can probably turn the page on this one.  The kid made a mistake.  It's unfair to pin last year's result on that one single play.  That one single penalty is not an indictment of the player or the program. 

Wally...you are missing the point...I am not talking about the player...This is a coaching thing...

[ExTartanPlayer]

Latest regional rankings posted:
http://d3blogs.com/d3football/2010/11/03/ncaas-second-regional-rankings/

Good God!  Pat, you must have put that here to yank the Bash/Witt fans' chains.  Case is still ranked above Wittenberg and Wabash after losing to Chicago?  I sort-of understand being even with Bash now (they have similar resumes and they've lost to similar teams), but how in the Lord's name are they still ahead of undefeated Wittenberg?

Not looking to argue teams' relative strength, as I think they're all pretty even...but on what criteria is CWRU ahead of Wittenberg this week?  I made the "Case" that CWRU deserved to be ahead of Witt last week, but that was before they lost to Chicago!  What gives?

[zed07]

Wally...you are missing the point...I am not talking about the player...This is a coaching thing...
[/quote]

But the example you have used repeatedly for the last year refers to that single play that that single player (a very good one) made.  While it was surely a big play in a big game, I don't think it fair to Matt to keep on reminding him of his mistake repeatedly for the simple purpose of emphasizing your point.  He's a great kid who fought through incredible adversity to even be on the field that season.  If he's reading this blog, I would think it very insensitive to keep using that play as your whipping boy for suggesting that ER coaches an undisciplined team.

I agree that there is a penalty problem, but I also agree with Wally that it's time to let that particular play go.  

[jam40jeff]

on what criteria is CWRU ahead of Wittenberg this week?

Yeah, I can't say I understand that at all.

[FightinScot]

Wally...you are missing the point...I am not talking about the player...This is a coaching thing...

I'm completely unbiased about this argument, but if there's anything I noticed about Wabash through the hours in the film room and my games against them, there is nothing that would suggest "undisciplined" about your team. They are well coached, play hard and physical - the right way. That's why I always loved playing you guys.

Every team, at every level, has "bad" penalties - false starts, offsides on kickoffs, delay of game... everyone. If there's any sign of an undisciplined team, its in the stupid cheap shots, the unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, hits after the whistle - you don't get much of that at 'Bash (you do at Witt... there's the bias!)

A disciplined team doesn't allow those penalties to kill a drive, or a game. I know nothing about what you're talking about on a kid being offsides on a kickoff, but drop it. I'm sure whoever he is, he feels worse about it than you do. Its time to let it go, or use a more recent example. Wabash is not undisciplined. Period.

[joelmama]

The vast majority of the officials really try to do a good job and be impartial.  They make mistakes like any of us do and with close judgement calls, it is obviously sometimes very difficult to determine i.e. they are just that - judgement calls.  However, what annoys me the most is when officials are not consistent in those calls during the course of the game, and become vindictive against a particular team, player or the coaching staff, which is simply wrong.

As an official for another sport, I fully agree with your first sentence here.  To think that any official is "out to get you" is a ludicrous thought.  I also have trouble believing that many become vindictive during the course of the game.  We are out there for the love of the game and the desire to give everybody a fair shake with regards to the rules.

My complaints about the officiating come, not about judgment calls, but rather when the officials make mistakes due to lack of pre-game preparation.  These mistakes usually manifest themselves in three areas:  the official doesn't know the rule, the official misapplies the rule, or the official is out of position to see the play (often because he is out of shape).

I watched an HCAC game earlier this year where they marked off 15 yards for a block in the back.  I didn't say anything the first time, because I figured that I was mistaken about where the spot of the foul was.  Later, they started marking off 15 yards again.  I yelled from the stands that time, and I think the line judge heard me, because a couple second later he was blowing his whistle and they moved the ball up 5 yards.

I've watched umpires who were too fat to bend over and spot the ball.  They just dropped the ball and stepped on it to keep it from rolling.

I watched a referee confuse everybody by not giving the illegal touching signal when a receiver stepped out of bounds and was the first to touch the pass.  He only gave the loss of down signal.  Even the announcer was confused by the penalty.

These are things that belong in JV HS football, not in college.  I bust my butt to review rules and case books year round.  I'm probably a little out of shape, but not so much that I can't bend over.  The kids deserve my best effort, and they are going to get it.

I think officials should be made to take a fitness test in the preseason before they are assigned any games.  Fat refs that can't keep up with the action is my second biggest pet peeve.  My first one is that too many refs are really bad at spotting the ball in the correct spot.

[wally_wabash]

Just what do you think LK's thoughts would be of a player being 3 or 4 yards offsides on a "kickoff"...in the 4th quarter...with the score tied...playing for the conference championship...aggressive?...or undisciplined?

I think we can probably turn the page on this one.  The kid made a mistake.  It's unfair to pin last year's result on that one single play.  That one single penalty is not an indictment of the player or the program. 

Wally...you are missing the point...I am not talking about the player...This is a coaching thing...

Coach Raeburn is 26-5 in under three full seasons at Wabash.  He's won a conference championship, reclamed the Monon Bell, and qualified for the championship tournament twice.  That is also a coaching thing, and as I mentioned before, if the cost of being a conference champion and/or a tournament qualifier is that the team takes a few more penalties than the rest of the league, so be it.

[HScoach]

I suspect I will draw incoming ... but the advent of ER and Wabash penalties ... per Wally's list ... cross.  Perhaps a cooincidence.  But I think ER - while not wanting stupid penalties such as offside (and we have not conquered that), allows (encourages) aggressive positive play peformed properly and within the rules  ... which while good ... will cause penalties in the mind of officials accoustomed to the likes of Earlham/Kenyon etc. type teams.

Most likely not far from the truth.  Mount has always been known to draw its fair amount (more than fair if you are a Mount fan  ) of penalties that are of the aggressive nature.  LK was commenting on that in a story (I think in a football coaches magazine), and indicated he didn't mind the penalties, because it meant his team was playing in an aggressive, tough manner.

Just what do you think LK's thoughts would be of a player being 3 or 4 yards offsides on a "kickoff"...in the 4th quarter...with the score tied...playing for the conference championship...aggressive?...or undisciplined? From what I have heard about him (LK)..he wants it done right...always...every time...so much so that the way he runs the practice is they run the play till they get it right

To me...that is coaching...coaching does not allow these type of plays to happen...a disciplined team has all the earmarks of greatness by playing like Wildmen...within the boundaries of being disciplined...

Let me add to, and hopefully clarify, Sidekick's post about LK's position on penalties.    The context of his quote was concerning whether he was worried because his team was the most penalized in the OAC and historically has been each year.  His statement indicated that of course he would prefer to avoid penalties, but he accepts a certain amount of penalties as long as they're aggressive caused by someone trying to make a play such as pass interference, holding, etc.  The penalties that he won't tolerate are the mental mistakes such as illegal procedure, illegal formation, lining up offsides, etc.

It's been too long to remember the exact quote, but it was basically to the effect that "if you aren't getting a few holding penalties, you aren't trying to block hard enough".

[seventiesraider]

]I think officials should be made to take a fitness test in the preseason before they are assigned any games.  Fat refs that can't keep up with the action is my second biggest pet peeve.  My first one is that too many refs are really bad at spotting the ball in the correct spot.

Two full ortho knee braces should be a signal to the wearer that it's time to hang 'em up.  I quit doing basketball when I started calling off work on Monday because my legs hurt so bad from doing youth games all day Sunday