FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[wally_wabash]

We're all frustrated, honestly.  We actually got through half a dozen coaching changes fairly well.  Playoffs two years ago.  Probably the greatest QB/RB/WR combo (if not the greatest 3 at their respective positions) in school history won a conference they'd never won before and did dirty things to Wabash in the rivalry game.

Then it all goes away.  The roster is small now, both in number and in actual size of the players.  We're back to it not being important to this administration again and that really disappoints me.  I've always been tough on the DPU administration.  I'm sure everybody is tired of that dead horse.  But, don't tell me that, all of the sudden, after the 2 most successful seasons in program history that SUDDENLY nobody wants to come play football there.  The model is there on how to succeed at this level.  There are half a dozen schools within 200 miles that are showing everybody exactly how to do it, including one about 30 miles up US 231.  Either care or don't.  As a President, Board of Trustees, and Athletic Administration, either want to put your program and coaching staff in a position to succeed or don't.  You'll either win or you won't.  It's pretty obvious which one DePauw is doing right now.

This depresses me.  I have been around this rivalry since 1976.  Much as I dislike DPU, it is still a sister institution and our key rival.  To see a lack of appreciation of sports and athletics in an institution like DePauw is galling.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Wes, but I don't see that this is necessarily a problem across the entire athletics program.  DePauw was collecting all-sports trophies on the steady down south and they won the all-sports trophy in their first year of elibibility in the NCAC last year (without any contribution whatsoever from football).  Athletics is alive and well at DePauw, but football (where the "arms race" tends to have a higher profile) is slipping behind. 

Football appears to be pretty lean right now.  I think there's a better than decent chance, as lean as things are in Greencastle right now, that DePauw can finish third in our league (which launches a whole seperate commentary about the state of the league).  It might take a coaching change.  It might take a capital campaign.  But eventually, they'll get things pointed in the right direction down there at DePauw.  But until then....wheeeeee! 

[wabco]

Please ... no coaching change ... I was getting to like the 40 something to 0+ scores.

[smedindy]

I agree with Wally. Whatever the disconnect is with football down in Zima-land isn't happening with the rest of the programs. Most all of the coaches have built and maintained top programs with little slip up. I do think the DPU men's hoops team may have been a disappointment, but the NCAC was quite loaded last year in hoops.

Football is the high-profile sport for DPU because of the Bell, though, and there has to eventually be some fallout for the rest of the programs soon. It'll be a trailing indicator.

[Duster72]

My interpretation of the article was that DPU desperately needs field turf and are scared to install field turf in Blackstock because they don't want to show favoritism towards a men-only sport.  They want to install it in several locations simultaneously in a gesture of equality.

Surely with their fancy new bookstore/Starbucks and constant building around campus they could afford 1.5 mil for the turf.  It's not that much money in the grand scheme of their annual budget, is it?  Maybe they could get Dreyer & Reinbold BMW to sponsor the stadium???


I will say that I like their new helmets a lot better.  That might be the first nice thing I've ever said about DPU.  Mark it down.

[wally_wabash]

My interpretation of the article was that DPU desperately needs field turf and are scared to install field turf in Blackstock because they don't want to show favoritism towards a men-only sport.  They want to install it in several locations simultaneously in a gesture of equality.

If allocation of monies for a surface for just one sport (football) is a political problem, they can always buy a rug that has more lines for more sports.  Plenty of other schools are doing this.  Yes, it makes your football field look like a craps table when you stencil on field hockey and lacrosse lines, but if you're going to invest in a multi-use surface, I don't think anybody is going to judge if they use it for multiple activities. 

[sigma one]

I'm not being an apologist for the team to the south but . . .4-5 last year (with multiple QB injuries a certain factor), and in the three years before that 9-2, 7-3, 8-2.  Over four years, that's 28-12.  Sixteen games over .500.  How many DIII teams have, say, 29 or more wins over that period; I'm guessing maybe 10/12%?  Sure, the last two Bell Games are lopsided; the year before that Wabash had to QB sneak late in the game, deep in LG territory to guarantee a win.  This year:  a substantial DPU opening-day loss, at home, to a team that was 8-2 last year.  This week, oops, Witt--at Witt.  But let's wait a little while before we throw more dirt into the hole.
     DPU has always recruited heavily out of Indiana:  St. Louis, Chicago suburbs, for example--and successfully.  This year's roster is a good example of their geographic diversity.  So what's happening to them?  Lack of recruiting energy and productivity?  Apathy?  Loss of administrative support?  Combination?  Something else?  I mark their president as a high-energy, competitive guy who supports athletics, including football, while walking a thin line on gender issues.
     Seeing their game field on tape vs. St Olaf was shocking this early in the season.  So, they lost their practice field to another sport: gender politics, an honest attempt to show that every sport is equal?  That is, after all, the NCAC philosophy, mirrored by DePauw's, it appears.  But what about the failure to prepare all their fields equally so that this fiasco didn't happen? There is a new AD(?)  But, contrary to what I occasionally read on these boards ADs don't control as much as people think.  (Some day I'll get into what I've read about scheduling.)  Following the Tigers will be interesting this year.
     I can't resist putting in my two cents on the issue of Wabash posters dominating this board.  Certainly, this is so, and maybe in some cases, it's asserted,  their aggression has driven away posters who support other teams.  Thanks, by the way, to those who contine to give opinion and information about the rest of the NCAC.   As part of a Wabash education, students are encouraged, almost forced by circumstances of the learning environment, to think critically.  It's part of the College's mission statement.  That spills over into give and take both in classes and elsewhere--on this board from alums, for instance.  This is not intended as a defense of any particular set of comments or line of debate because on occasion Wabash posters have been overly aggressive and, yes, prickly.  Supporters of other schools will say that their institutions also teach debate, give and take, critical thinking.  They do.  At Wabash, we like to think (and I'm suggesting it's true) that hard-nosed debate is actually healthy.  So, W fans:  here's hoping we all continue to contribute; and here's hoping that we might just tone it down a bit sometimes while not diminishing our "fanness."  OK, now I'm really in trouble. 

[Li'l Giant]

My interpretation of the article was that DPU desperately needs field turf and are scared to install field turf in Blackstock because they don't want to show favoritism towards a men-only sport.  They want to install it in several locations simultaneously in a gesture of equality.

If allocation of monies for a surface for just one sport (football) is a political problem, they can always buy a rug that has more lines for more sports.  Plenty of other schools are doing this.  Yes, it makes your football field look like a craps table when you stencil on field hockey and lacrosse lines, but if you're going to invest in a multi-use surface, I don't think anybody is going to judge if they use it for multiple activities.

I agree with this in principle but I think it's probably not that simple because they would in essence be reducing the number of playing/practicing surfaces, which they already don't have enough of, and then it still ends up at least with the "appearance" of favoritism for football.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

I'm not being an apologist for the team to the south but . . .4-5 last year (with multiple QB injuries a certain factor), and in the three years before that 9-2, 7-3, 8-2.  Over four years, that's 28-12.  Sixteen games over .500.  How many DIII teams have, say, 29 or more wins over that period; I'm guessing maybe 10/12%?  Sure, the last two Bell Games are lopsided; the year before that Wabash had to QB sneak late in the game, deep in LG territory to guarantee a win.  This year:  a substantial DPU opening-day loss, at home, to a team that was 8-2 last year.  This week, oops, Witt--at Witt.  But let's wait a little while before we throw more dirt into the hole.
     DPU has always recruited heavily out of Indiana:  St. Louis, Chicago suburbs, for example--and successfully.  This year's roster is a good example of their geographic diversity.  So what's happening to them?  Lack of recruiting energy and productivity?  Apathy?  Loss of administrative support?  Combination?  Something else?  I mark their president as a high-energy, competitive guy who supports athletics, including football, while walking a thin line on gender issues.
     Seeing their game field on tape vs. St Olaf was shocking this early in the season.  So, they lost their practice field to another sport: gender politics, an honest attempt to show that every sport is equal?  That is, after all, the NCAC philosophy, mirrored by DePauw's, it appears.  But what about the failure to prepare all their fields equally so that this fiasco didn't happen? There is a new AD(?)  But, contrary to what I occasionally read on these boards ADs don't control as much as people think.  (Some day I'll get into what I've read about scheduling.)  Following the Tigers will be interesting this year.
     I can't resist putting in my two cents on the issue of Wabash posters dominating this board.  Certainly, this is so, and maybe in some cases, it's asserted,  their aggression has driven away posters who support other teams.  Thanks, by the way, to those who contine to give opinion and information about the rest of the NCAC.   As part of a Wabash education, students are encouraged, almost forced by circumstances of the learning environment, to think critically.  It's part of the College's mission statement.  That spills over into give and take both in classes and elsewhere--on this board from alums, for instance.  This is not intended as a defense of any particular set of comments or line of debate because on occasion Wabash posters have been overly aggressive and, yes, prickly.  Supporters of other schools will say that their institutions also teach debate, give and take, critical thinking.  They do.  At Wabash, we like to think (and I'm suggesting it's true) that hard-nosed debate is actually healthy.  So, W fans:  here's hoping we all continue to contribute; and here's hoping that we might just tone it down a bit sometimes while not diminishing our "fanness."  OK, now I'm really in trouble.

+1 Sigma, I do not fault the Wabash fans for there debate and support of there team. I think they bring a lot of insight and value to the board. Sometimes it pays to have a thick skin though. I am mostly a baseball fan and wish we would see more posting by Wabash fans during the spring over on the baseball forum. With Woosters not dominating the east this year posting was sparse to say the least.

[Dr. Acula]

It seems it's usually like that.  Mount fans and little else in the OAC football forum.  Wabash fans and little else here.  Marietta fans and me in the OAC baseball forum.  I'm guessing Wooster has good representation in the NCAC hoops forum?  The traditional powers dominate each forum.  So please, PLEASE OWU guys keep posting here.  It's better for everyone.  That's why I try to watch and post about the other OAC football teams even though I'm a baseball guy too.  Singular focus gets a little stale and that's coming from a Mount guy.

[bashbrother]

Wabash sports release:

http://sports.wabash.edu/documents/2012/9/11/ReleaseSept112012.pdf?id=64

[smedindy]

I think may of us want insight from all of the conference schools. Over at the hoops board we've slowly moved from 90% Wooster to something like 75% or so (maybe less when Wooster was struggling earlier in the year).

I think we all appreciate all posters currently repping all NCAC schools. We just need more of them. Would love to hear about the Denison and Oberlin programs. And 'Gheny is just absent everywhere it seems.

[smedindy]

It's time for conference play!  A 4-game conference slate this week whets our appetite. Allegheny and Wooster have the week off.

Wabash (1-0) @ Denison (0-1) - The Big Red fell behind 19-7 and 32-14 against the resurgent Battling Bishops before making a game of it. On the surface, Paulus and Fiorini had great numbers, but Paulus amassed a lot of yards in the desperate comebacks and Fiorini had a 63-yard run amongst his 107. Denison can't afford to fall behind because the Hard Hats will be a stouter test than OWU and no yards will be easy. Wabash had issues running the ball against Hanover, and the LG's still may have running game issues. But the Big Red gave up 302 yards through the air and Belton & Co. could riddle them as well. The spreads around the pick 'em seem accurate, but I wouldn't be shocked or stunned if Denison keeps it closer than the pick-em nut.

Hiram (0-2) @ Kenyon (1-1) - The pillow fight of the year? Maybe, but it could be entertaining. As noted earlier (back a few pages) the Terriers have a very young and / or inexperienced team. Kenyon, of course, is also rebuilding with a new coach and a new mindset. Hiram, after two shutouts needs to score points, period. (I would say A point, but since this isn't Canada they have to score at least two.) Kenyon no doubt has some confidence after they blasted the NCAC turncoat Earlham last week. Look for the Lords to actually have a winning record after this game, but Hiram should dent the scoreboard.

Ohio Wesleyan (1-0) @ Oberlin (1-0) - This is a test for both squads. The Bishops go on the road after their big win over the Big Red ushering in their new era. However, they face a Yeoman team that wants to take the next step in program building. Oberlin had an easy time of it against the turncoat Quakers two weeks ago but the Bishops will be a sterner test for the Yeoman defense. This could go either way but I think the Battling Bishops depth and enthusiasm will prevail.

DePauw (0-1) @ Wittenberg (1-0) - Welcome to NCAC football, New Tigers. Your introductory game, the Old Tigers. Now, I'm more optimistic about Wittenberg than many around D3 land and this game may not really prove that they belong in the near-elite. DPU's got to play better and take care of the ball to have any kind of chance in Ohio. The Old Tigers should give the New Tigers a rude awakening to NCAC play.

[DPU3619]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Wes, but I don't see that this is necessarily a problem across the entire athletics program.  DePauw was collecting all-sports trophies on the steady down south and they won the all-sports trophy in their first year of elibibility in the NCAC last year (without any contribution whatsoever from football).  Athletics is alive and well at DePauw, but football (where the "arms race" tends to have a higher profile) is slipping behind. 

Football appears to be pretty lean right now.  I think there's a better than decent chance, as lean as things are in Greencastle right now, that DePauw can finish third in our league (which launches a whole seperate commentary about the state of the league).  It might take a coaching change.  It might take a capital campaign.  But eventually, they'll get things pointed in the right direction down there at DePauw.  But until then....wheeeeee! 

You're exactly right, which is what I'm most frustrated about.  All-Sports Trophies are excellent.  I'm proud of those.  But, I, like almost every other alum on the planet, want to win the Monon Bell Game.

I'm definitely biased.  I'm sure there are other people who want other sports to be the main focus.  I'm just not one of those.  Football has a chance to be a force to be reckoned with in the North.  It really does.  You saw a glimpse of that a few years back.  If they could have put 5 or 6 of those seasons together, we'd really have something right now. 

The school just has to put the resources forward to make that happen.  Free up some more financial aid that allows a larger roster.  $49k is a lot of money for one year of school if the financial aid department can't help you.  Make the female/male ratio more reasonable.  It's been moving more and more female for over a decade.  Improve the facilities.  This coaching staff is perfectly capable if they're coaching and recruiting against an even playing field.  In my mind, they aren't right now.  It's not just the turf issue, either.

[TitanPride]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Wes, but I don't see that this is necessarily a problem across the entire athletics program.  DePauw was collecting all-sports trophies on the steady down south and they won the all-sports trophy in their first year of elibibility in the NCAC last year (without any contribution whatsoever from football).  Athletics is alive and well at DePauw, but football (where the "arms race" tends to have a higher profile) is slipping behind. 

Football appears to be pretty lean right now.  I think there's a better than decent chance, as lean as things are in Greencastle right now, that DePauw can finish third in our league (which launches a whole seperate commentary about the state of the league).  It might take a coaching change.  It might take a capital campaign.  But eventually, they'll get things pointed in the right direction down there at DePauw.  But until then....wheeeeee! 

You're exactly right, which is what I'm most frustrated about.  All-Sports Trophies are excellent.  I'm proud of those.  But, I, like almost every other alum on the planet, want to win the Monon Bell Game.

I'm definitely biased.  I'm sure there are other people who want other sports to be the main focus.  I'm just not one of those.  Football has a chance to be a force to be reckoned with in the North.  It really does.  You saw a glimpse of that a few years back.  If they could have put 5 or 6 of those seasons together, we'd really have something right now. 

The school just has to put the resources forward to make that happen.  Free up some more financial aid that allows a larger roster.  $49k is a lot of money for one year of school if the financial aid department can't help you.  Make the female/male ratio more reasonable.  It's been moving more and more female for over a decade.  Improve the facilities.  This coaching staff is perfectly capable if they're coaching and recruiting against an even playing field.  In my mind, they aren't right now.  It's not just the turf issue, either.

I'm not sure I understand your point.  Depauw is not doing anything different with the financial aid packages of football players relative to other athletes or non-athletes.  They can't; that's the essence of Division 3 athletics.  Depauw is known for their aggressive scholarship and financial aid policies.  They have to be aggressive in these areas in order to recruit an academically talented student body to Greencastle, Indiana, which isn't usually the initial top choice of 18 year old kids.  The point is, football financial aid doesn't operate in a vacuum.  If they want to be more aggressive with the packages of football players, they will have to give more money to students outside of the football team too.

To your point about a larger roster, Depauw wouldn't have to significantly change its financial aid policy to recruit more football players.  Many small schools want to have as large of football teams as possible in order to bring in max tuition revenue (ex. Carthage brought in 90 freshman this year).  Recruiting more qualified football players would be seen as a positive thing to the Admissions/Financial Aid departments, not a negative one.

[wallyworld12]

But if you don't have competitive financial aid packages, regardless if they are an athlete or not, you will have difficulty getting people to attend your University.

It is a well known fact that DePauw is not as supportive of their students as other schools are. It costs a lot of money to attend DePauw, and by providing little financial aid, you are necessarily limiting the amount of students who would even consider going to a school like DePauw.

Couple that with poor facilities, and in a new league, with your in-state rival and other programs like Franklin and Trine, you have to make the necessary adjustments to stay in the game.

DePauw is very successful at women's athletics and have a proud tradition that will continue in the NCAC. The complaint shared by the Bear and Wes is that the Administration (writ-large) doesn't seem to put football on a pedestal above other sports. The way Kenyon and Denison do with swimming.