FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[DadofBashWarrior..]

IMO Bash and FC need to find a way play each other every year.

Amen.   2006 & 2007 were both special games.  Let's do it.   With the NCAC round robin next year and for the foreseeable future,  we have one non-conference slot open.  If Franklin would quit trying to win the National Championship in week 1 or 2, there may be something there... (respect)

I agree...
Franklin would be a great non conference matchup...06 & 07 were great games...I have never heard a crowd get so quiet as when Huff went down...and then to make it to the quarter finals without him...I think he threw for 477 Yards in that game...

[GRIZ_BACKER]

SIAP, but I didn't feel like reading through the last 20 pages of Wabash talk to see if it had been, but the Baird Brothers Trophy was featured in a piece on ESPN.  You can watch it here:  Trophy Games.  It comes in around the 2:44 mark...   

This is fantastic. I love that trophy. One of the best. My wife, who lived in Hawaii a bit as a kid had no idea about the name of that fish. Thanks for passing that along.

FC heads to Alliance OH next year.  I personally don't mind playing them as they are in region and D3. I do mind Butler.  Butler has moved significantly up in talent and the game doesn't count.  FC has Depauw for two years after Mount.  Hopefully they will also find a solid team such as an OAC or CCIW for the other.  In previous years FC scheduled Baldwin Wallace and Carhage as well as Trine.  Fun competitive games

[Black and Gold]

Now that the NCAC has finally decided on a round-robin format....let's take another step and end the year with rivalries...whether already established or geographically.......obviously Bash-DePauw...Witt-Wooster....OWU-Denison are already in place...then Gheny and Hiram are in close proximity and Oberlin-Kenyon are relatively close with similar academic credentials.....just a thought. If the NCAC is going to do it, may as well do it right.

[BashDad]

Still, doesn't make up for the egregious elitism that no one can be 'good' unless they're super mega elite.

Besides, on a message board, everyone has become a dipwad at one time or another. Pot, meet kettle ya know.

Well gee Smed...you missed the whole point.  BashDad went on and on that OWU's run meant "nothing", because they hadn't played anyone worth mentioning.  I was trying to make a correlation. 

Never mind.......

Well, while you're doing that. Making correlations, and all. Click: http://d3football.com/teams/Mount_Union/2012/index

Also, this whole thing--the weird personal insult and its subsequent posts--is the work of a douche bag. You're essentially cornering me into responding to something before I can resume discussing football. Which--I might add with a heavy, heavy emphasis--is really less appealing with the threat of you "out-ing" me whenever you find yourself sensitive to a strongly worded post. It makes me not want to do it. I can't keep refuting this UMU thing with you. If you think I have a strong bent against the Raiders, you're just flat out wrong. I wrote some posts when they looked vulnerable about why they looked vulnerable. Go back and look. I did the same thing with Wesley before UMU beat them. I did the same thing with NCC before Wabash beat them. If I enjoy doing that stuff with a certain aggressive flair, who gives a ****? That's not more fun?

[smedindy]

For the last three weeks, we've got conference games here in the NCAC. So let's get to Saturday's games:

Oberlin (1-3, 2-5) @ Hiram (0-4, 0-7) - Josh Mandel's back and the Yeomen immediately improve by waxing Denison and taking Case Western to overtime. Will the trend continue? Signs point to yes, as Mandel, Robin Witjes and Moses Robinson will have a field day against the Hiram defense. As for Hiram, you could say they have improved but how could you really measure it? It's another frustrating season for the Terriers and it probably continues Saturday.

DePauw (0-4, 1-6) @ Wooster (1-3, 2-5) - The two most disappointing teams in the NCAC (at least for their fan-bases) face each other Saturday. Both teams have had lost winnable, close games and then they've also been blown out of the water. Richard Barnes is still  no doubt having dreams about the Wabash defense being his grill all game last Saturday. The New Tigers threw a badillion passes against Kenyon and got nowhere, really. Neither team has really run the ball effectively though I think DPU could if they put their mind to it. Wooster's got the best QB and some more of a semblance of a defense so I foresee a Scots win, but the football won't be pretty.

Wittenberg (3-1, 6-1) @ Denison (2-2, 2-5) - The Old Tigers can now breathe, somewhat. They've run their gauntlet and now have three relative cupcakes to end the season. If they don't have a massive brain burp, they'll finish 9-1 and wait for the NCAA Selection show. Denison has a few tools in their arsenal on offense, but the Big Red fall behind so often it takes their running game out of the equation and teams can just key on Paulus. Look for Reed Florence to have a game akin to his big half against DPU if all goes well (or even semi-well).

Allegheny (3-1, 4-3) @ Kenyon (3-1, 4-3) - Don't laugh, this is a very important game. One of these teams will be knocked out of any chance of a shared conference championship which if it breaks the right (wrong) way could really cause headaches for anyone trying to follow along with the "guess the NCAC tiebreaker scenario" game. The Gators offense, after Wabash, has been weak, diluted broth. They aren't running and they're not stretching the field at all. Kenyon's resurgence continues as they dispatched the Old Tigers, but the Lords were semi-thugs at the end and almost gave away the game with multiple personal foul penalties. Maybe I overestimated Kenyon, but others under-estimated them. They can win this game, especially if Allegheny's offense is still locked in the visiting locker room at Wabash.

Wabash (3-1, 6-1) @ Ohio Wesleyan (4-0, 7-0) - We've talked about this game for a bit. Will Belton play? Can Espinosa continue his excellent season as a passer? These questions and more will be answered Saturday.

[The_Bishop]

Wabash (3-1, 6-1) @ Ohio Wesleyan (4-0, 7-0) - We've talked about this game for a bit. Will Belton play? Can Espinosa continue his excellent season as a passer? These questions and more will be answered Saturday.

We have?  I hope this game is a classic and OWU plays up to its potential.  Absolutely no room for error when you're up against the conference champs.  Would love to see the Bishops earn some hardware to display in Edwards Gym in addition to some respect.  Seeing a high of 48 degrees with a 30% chance of showers in Delaware this Saturday.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Nice summary, smedindy.

As much as certain folks on here don't want to acknowledge it and/or are hell-bent on being dismissive of the "improvement" of a few selected teams near the middle of the NCAC, the combination of a) Allegheny's upset win over Wabash, b) OWU's resurgence AND missing Witt on this year's schedule, and c) Kenyon's out-of-nowhere ability to win games against bottom feeders has created a VERY interesting constellation of potential ties at the top of the NCAC that could ensnare the powerful W's in a ticklish/uncomfortable situation come playoff time.  No use trying to sort it all out now, but those bottom two games are very interesting, and I kinda doubt anyone had either of them circled at the start of the year as games with NCAC title implications.

[wally_wabash]

Always good to have any D-3 mention in national media. Will Wooster and CWRU try to schedule each other in Wooster's one non-conference game slot?

It won't happen unless the PAC shrinks their league schedule or the UAA stops sponsoring a football championship.  My understanding is that the UAA schools are going to continue playing their three games against one another, all at the end of the season.  So for CWRU, they're booked with 10 games for the foreseeable future. 

[wabco]

Do not agree.  I have watched with amusement, SmedIndy's PC posts offering just a little for everyone while saying essentially nothing.  Like he was currying favor or even running for office.  If you are somehow self-taking on the mantle pregame guru and prognosticator ... then prognosticate.  Wabash or OWU? Oh great one who is favored ... whom do you pick ... and why? 

"These questions and more will be aswered Saturday" ... what balony cop out.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

Wabash (3-1, 6-1) @ Ohio Wesleyan (4-0, 7-0) - We've talked about this game for a bit. Will Belton play? Can Espinosa continue his excellent season as a passer? These questions and more will be answered Saturday.

We have?  I hope this game is a classic and OWU plays up to its potential.  Absolutely no room for error when you're up against the conference champs.  Would love to see the Bishops earn some hardware to display in Edwards Gym in addition to some respect.  Seeing a high of 48 degrees with a 30% chance of showers in Delaware this Saturday.

Not sure I agree. They do not need to be perfect, but they need to recover form mistakes and limit the number. One pick six may not kill them but 2 or three may.

[BashBacker#16]

Smeds - you were a little bare bones on the Bash/OWU game. 

Bishopleftiesdad - if the Bishops give Bash any pick 6's, it's gonna be a long day.  The Bash O will put points up, can the Bishops keep up?  Maybe don't have to be perfect but turnovers and giving Bash defensive scores could be lethal.  Every possession is huge for OWU because I think The Wabash O vs the OWU D is where Wabash has the clear advantage.

[The_Bishop]

Wabash (3-1, 6-1) @ Ohio Wesleyan (4-0, 7-0) - We've talked about this game for a bit. Will Belton play? Can Espinosa continue his excellent season as a passer? These questions and more will be answered Saturday.

We have?  I hope this game is a classic and OWU plays up to its potential.  Absolutely no room for error when you're up against the conference champs.  Would love to see the Bishops earn some hardware to display in Edwards Gym in addition to some respect.  Seeing a high of 48 degrees with a 30% chance of showers in Delaware this Saturday.

Not sure I agree. They do not need to be perfect, but they need to recover form mistakes and limit the number. One pick six may not kill them but 2 or three may.

Agree to disagree.  Having played myself once upon a time you never go into a game expecting to play the "perfect" game but Wabash isn't going to put the ball on the carpet or throw 4 picks (see Case, DPU) or have two roughing the punter penalties in the game (see Case).   There is a minuscule margin for error against Wabash if that phrase works better for you.   

[Bishopleftiesdad]

Wabash (3-1, 6-1) @ Ohio Wesleyan (4-0, 7-0) - We've talked about this game for a bit. Will Belton play? Can Espinosa continue his excellent season as a passer? These questions and more will be answered Saturday.

We have?  I hope this game is a classic and OWU plays up to its potential.  Absolutely no room for error when you're up against the conference champs.  Would love to see the Bishops earn some hardware to display in Edwards Gym in addition to some respect.  Seeing a high of 48 degrees with a 30% chance of showers in Delaware this Saturday.

Not sure I agree. They do not need to be perfect, but they need to recover form mistakes and limit the number. One pick six may not kill them but 2 or three may.

Agree to disagree.  Having played myself once upon a time you never go into a game expecting to play the "perfect" game but Wabash isn't going to put the ball on the carpet or throw 4 picks (see Case, DPU) or have two roughing the punter penalties in the game (see Case).   There is a minuscule margin for error against Wabash if that phrase works better for you.   

Having played I am sure that you know better than I. In college I was 120 soaking wet with rocks in my pockets. Just don't want anybody, team especially to think it is all over if Espinosa throws a pick 6. You are right Wabash is not going to make make the mistakes that their previous opponents have made. But they have thrown 3 picks. (Belton is an incredible QB). While they are Damn near close to perfect, they can still make a mistake. Yes OWU has to limit mistakes, but it is not the end of the game if they do make one. I just always felt that the teams that feel they have to play perfectly are usually teams that are used to losing and when they make a mistake, they get the Here we go again, and the wheels start to fall off because the everyone starts pressing.

If they make a mistake they have to shake it off and keep playing tough football.

[The_Bishop]

^^I think we are generally in agreement in principle, Leftiesdad, my choice of words was perhaps poor.

Irrespective of any current disagreements on the board regarding the quality of CMU as an opponent last week, OWU took some big, early shots from the Tartans and kept their heads up and hung in the game.  Even in the 4th quarter when they were down.  Coming from 2 TDs back against CMU and doing the same thing against Wabash are two completely different stories, however.  Ultimately needs to go toe-to-toe against the champs, limit mistakes, and respond in kind when the Lil' Giants make a big play.

[BashDad]

Because my feelings are actually hurt and because my reputation as an actual human feels irreparably at stake, I'm taking off my Wabash hat and putting on an Ohio Wesleyan sweat-shirt and I'm gonna serve me up some of my own medicine. Olive branches and all that. Hold on.

[Taking off hat.]
[Putting on Sweat-Shirt.]
[Throwing up.]
[Collecting myself.]

Okay.

Dear, BashDad. Dear, Asshole. Dear, Me. Here's why--ahem--here's why OWU might get themselves a ball game on Saturday. I don't know if they can win. But here's why they could. You ready? Here we go.

1. First off, let's get something straight here. Of the two teams playing on Saturday, only one of them has a loss. And it ain't OWU. Say what you want--and you have, dude--about OWU's schedule, but they've done, for seven weeks, what they were supposed to do. They even surprised us a couple times. They won. CWRU? Check. CMU? Check. Depauw? Check. See, these are the games you're not mentioning. The teams that OWU didn't play last year (CWRU) or lost to last year (CMU and Depauw), the teams that actually do--if you stop this petulant I'm-not-listening schtick and allow an actual conversation to happen--suggest a real and valid improvement for the Bishops this year. They are winning. Against mediocre and bad teams, maybe. But guess what? You know who hasn't done that? Wabash. Wabash has a good win, but  a worse loss. Allegheny is not good. Allegheny lost to the University of Chicago. They scored zero points. They scored 20 more points against you than they did against UC. So. That's on the HardHats. Has Wabash improved? Duh. That team that lost on September 22nd hasn't been seen since, but it was the same players, in the same system, wearing the same uniforms. You mean to tell me that you're 100% confident that those same issues have been entirely fixed? Do you? I didn't think so.

And before we move on entirely from this SoS argument, let me remind you of something you said a year ago:

Guess when you can start tossing around schedule strength as indicative of a team's weakness? When there's a loss. That's the ONLY time.

So. You know. Wipe that egg off, dick head.

2. Mason Espinosa and the OWU offense. Talk all you want about his throwing mechanics, but I know another recent NCAC QB who looked like an uber-goof when he tossed the rock:



So maybe we wanna hold off on saying someone sucks based on superficial nonsense. Hudson was pretty good, as I remember. More to the point, if you think Espinosa is a cheap, one-trick-pony just plugged in to a system, let me just remind you that that system is putting up numbers that are on pace to obliterate the conference record for per game passing average. Do I think OWU will meet that average on Saturday (341.3)? I mean... do you want to say for certain that they won't? Against the two average-to-good teams they've played this year (CWRU and CMU), Espo threw for 640 yards, 4 TDs, and 2 Ints. On saturday, he'll be facing a defense much better than any he's seen. But. Even if you place Kalkstein and Florence above him when ranking QBs, it's inarguable than Wabash will be playing against a scheme that they haven't seen this year. They just haven't. It's an entirely different system. And you know what? That's happened to the LGs once already this year. It was CMU. And they were down 21-0 before they knew what hit them. So. If it takes Wabash time to adjust and they find themselves in a hole and that hole is dug deeper by not having Belton, or by Holmes putting the ball on the ground (which holy moly did he almost do several times last week), or by general lethargy that, hello, has already happened to them this year, then--again--we'll have a ball game.

[Must....resist...the....oh, forget it: Wabash Fans, want to look at a fairly damning game for the OWU offense? CWRU. The one game they played an average defense saw them being held to 235 yards passing and zero TDs.]

3. Yes, the OWU defense has played some games that--statistically--don't impress. However, if you look again at the only two games against good opponents, they've done some good work. Against CMU, and the highest rated QB in the country, they held the Tartans to 172 yards rushing (that's 50 yards less than Wabash held them to, even though they rushed 12 more times) and picked off Kalkstein twice when he hadn't been picked off but once in the preceding six games. His efficiency was nearly 100 points less than it is on the season. That D hasn't yet been fully tested, not in the way that it will be on Saturday, but when they've been given opportunities to impress, they've done so.

4. The eye test. OWU just looks better this year. They have better athletes and they're making better plays. Look. You said so yourself:

Thanks for posting that, The_Bishop. Gleaves looks really good in that first return. Don't know how much to attribute to those (totally badass) uni's, but it looks like OWU has some athletes.

Further, those athletes are winning. Pooh-pooh that sentiment all you want, but I think you know as well as I do that confidence is certainly a key aspect to both a.) playing quarterback and b.) winning games you're not supposed to. OWU is playing like winners. The last quarter of the CMU game is the kind of sequence that the Bishop offense can reference for the remainder of the season. They made mistakes, crippling mistakes, and they came back and won. Don't tell me that's not important going into the Wabash game. It is. Will Espinosa throw a couple picks on Saturday? Maybe. But I guarantee he won't stop swinging.

In closing, BashDad, DoucheDad, whatever, I want to say this:

I know you're pissed that OWU doesn't have Witt on the schedule. That they haven't played any good teams. They they're getting everyone excited during a time of year usually reserved solely for post-season prognostications. But, dude, give me a break already. This could very well be one of the more interesting games of the past couple years in the NCAC and result in one of the bigger train-wreck tie-breakers we've seen. People get to be excited. They just do. The good news? On Saturday, all your reservations about the Bishops will end. Wabash is a good team. You won't have to wait any longer for the true talents of OWU to be revealed. And guess what? They might just be better than you think. We just don't know yet.