FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[smedindy]

Smeds - you were a little bare bones on the Bash/OWU game. 

I was bare bones because it's the topic of major discussion. I do the review to highlight the other games that aren't getting the traffic on the main board, but for a game that's been talked about since Saturday, and also in one that I have already weighed in on, I didn't think we needed the signal-to-noise ratio to deprecate. And I think the conversation was already stout enough.

I did the same during the Wabash / Witt game.

I mean, no one is talking about the other games, really, but it IS an NCAC board and everyone needs a little bone thrown to them. We are a conference and if we want better participation from others (like the OWU fans) we need to at least say howdy once in a while.

[ExTartanPlayer]

BashDad, that is exceptionally well said.  Although you showed admirable logic in acknowledging all of this, and I'm sure it darn near killed you to do so, I just can't resist one more point:

[Must....resist...the....oh, forget it: Wabash Fans, want to look at a fairly damning game for the OWU offense? CWRU. The one game they played an average defense saw them being held to 235 yards passing and zero TDs.]

That average CWRU defense also held Wittenberg to 181 yards passing (263 total) and 14 points.  If you consider Wittenberg a worthy adversary, and it appears y'all do, I'm not sure how these two pieces of information are a "damning" statement about the OWU offense against respectable defenses.

[BashDad]

Well, okay. CWRU's defense is "good" instead of "average." Look at what OWU did against the only team they've played that has a "good" defense. They scored 17 points and threw for their lowest output all year.

Wabash has a good defense. OWU, in the one game against a defense in the same galaxy as Wabash, didn't fare well. That's the point. That's why its damning. They played a good D and their video game numbers went poof.

[smedindy]

It could have been that Witt had their clunker on offense against Case. They didn't score a lot of points against Wooster but they amassed over 400 yards. Case gave up 23 points to Meh-rietta (hah, I slay myself) and 28 to a Wooster team (a lot in panic mode for the Scots, but still) that hasn't gotten out of their way most of the year.

Case also gave up almost 400 yards to a blah Frostburg State team.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Well, okay. CWRU's defense is "good" instead of "average." Look at what OWU did against the only team they've played that has a "good" defense. They scored 17 points and threw for their lowest output all year.

Let's turn your little game on its head, then.

Wabash has a good defense.

Are we sure of this?  Let's apply the following logic:

OWU, in the one game against a defense in the same galaxy as Wabash, didn't fare well. That's the point. That's why its damning. They played a good D and their video game numbers went poof.

Wabash has played two games against teams with an offense in the same "galaxy" as OWU's this year: Carnegie Mellon and Wittenberg.  They allowed 28 points (455 yards) and 24 points (254 yards), respectively.  Wabash's defense hasn't even posted "video game" numbers for you to brag about, but even if they had one can easily apply the same logical fallacy you're using re: OWU's offense and point out that the "good" Wabash defense has allowed 26 ppg and 350 ypg against the two best offenses they've played.

Yeah, I'm playing devil's advocate, but if you're gonna point out the one game where OWU's "video game numbers went poof" as evidence that they "won't fare well" against a good defense, I'll gladly point that the TWO games where Wabash's "good defense" gave up their biggest output of the season came against the only pair of offenses in OWU's "galaxy" this year.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

^^I think we are generally in agreement in principle, Leftiesdad, my choice of words was perhaps poor.

Irrespective of any current disagreements on the board regarding the quality of CMU as an opponent last week, OWU took some big, early shots from the Tartans and kept their heads up and hung in the game.  Even in the 4th quarter when they were down.  Coming from 2 TDs back against CMU and doing the same thing against Wabash are two completely different stories, however.  Ultimately needs to go toe-to-toe against the champs, limit mistakes, and respond in kind when the Lil' Giants make a big play.

I cannot argue with that. I agree completely.

[BashDad]

Well, okay. CWRU's defense is "good" instead of "average." Look at what OWU did against the only team they've played that has a "good" defense. They scored 17 points and threw for their lowest output all year.

Let's turn your little game on its head, then.

Wabash has a good defense.

Are we sure of this?  Let's apply the following logic:

OWU, in the one game against a defense in the same galaxy as Wabash, didn't fare well. That's the point. That's why its damning. They played a good D and their video game numbers went poof.

Wabash has played two games against teams with an offense in the same "galaxy" as OWU's this year: Carnegie Mellon and Wittenberg.  They allowed 28 points (455 yards) and 24 points (254 yards), respectively.  Wabash's defense hasn't even posted "video game" numbers for you to brag about, but even if they had one can easily apply the same logical fallacy you're using re: OWU's offense and point out that the "good" Wabash defense has allowed 26 ppg and 350 ypg against the two best offenses they've played.

Yeah, I'm playing devil's advocate, but if you're gonna point out the one game where OWU's "video game numbers went poof" as evidence that they "won't fare well" against a good defense, I'll gladly point that the TWO games where Wabash's "good defense" gave up their biggest output of the season came against the only pair of offenses in OWU's "galaxy" this year.

These are good points, re: Wabash's Defense, but I'm not sure you're discrediting my argument as much as creating a new one. It seems like a fine logical argument to suggest that OWU might have trouble with a good defense (be it Wabash or anyone else) if they struggled against the single good one they've faced so far. No?

The argument gets tricky, I guess, when the question becomes how to qualify the Bash D. I think they're pretty good. They just shut out a team that put up 28 on CWRU, whose defense started all of this. But I think I may be chasing my tail here.

[BashBacker#16]

Wabash/OWU game notes:  http://sports.wabash.edu/documents/2012/10/24/ReleaseOct242012.pdf?id=103

[ExTartanPlayer]

These are good points, re: Wabash's Defense, but I'm not sure you're discrediting my argument as much as creating a new one. It seems like a fine logical argument to suggest that OWU might have trouble with a good defense (be in Wabash or anyone else) if they struggled against the single good one they've faced so far. No?

Agreed.  Good way to put it.  I took the same argument you applied to OWU's offense, which may or may not actually produce against "good" defenses, and applied it to Wabash's defense, which may or may not actually shut down "good" offenses.  Two separate trains of thought on a collision course this week!

But I think I may be chasing my tail here.

Indeed, we are.  Isn't that all we ever do on these boards?

Please don't take any of my comments personally.  These boards are a fun way to banter about games and toss around hypotheticals, so I like to kick around points like the above.  Can't really talk to my officemates about the big NCAC clash of the weekend.

[BashBacker#16]

Ask Barnes about the Bash D.  Ask Florence about the Bash D.  How were his passing numbers against Wabash?  He got loose for the long run but aside from that play, he was challenged all day long.  I think there is way too much over analyzing going on here.

[Li'l Giant]

BashDad:

[BashDad]

...and point out that the "good" Wabash defense has allowed 26 ppg and 350 ypg against the two best offenses they've played.

I'll just also quickly point out that against the two best offenses they've played, the Bash D has allowed 160.5 ypg passing and forced 4 turnovers.

[BashBacker#16]

Honest questions:

How are the OWU receivers?  I looked last night and he spreads the ball around including to the running back.  4 guys with well over 30 catches.

How good is the OWU O-line?  I saw a video preview on the OWU/CMU game on YouTube and the guy called them "shaky."

[nike]

You guys are deep!  Very, very deep.  BashDad, always enjoy your posts, but lately you have taken this board to a new level.
Wabash will win, but OWU will quiet the naysayers with their play. My guess is the numbers of points both teams score will be suprising.
There you go.

I think Wabash needs a fact checker:

Crawfordsville, IN – Wabash College (6-1, 3-1 NCAC) will make its final road trip of the regular season on Saturday. The Little Giants head to Delaware, Ohio to play undefeated Ohio Wesleyan University (2-4, 1-2 NCAC). Kickoff at Selby Stadium (91,00) is set for 1:30 p.m.:
 

[BashBacker#16]

Since Wabash joined the NCAC in 1999, Ohio Wesleyan is 0-8 against Wabash