FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Bishopleftiesdad]

Thanks everyone. I was not thinking so much next year but a year or two further out. Who knows he may be here 5 years and have enough success that there is no reason to go anywhere else.

[sigma one]

DePauw is also in a search, of course.  It will soon be a month since the end of the regular season (!).  Division III colleges and universities are puzzling places sometimes when it comes to coaching searches.  Many use more of a faculty search model than the model we see at the BCS and larger schools.  Will DPU announce by Christmas?  Will their search extend into the new year?  Close to home, Wabash hired Raeburn a month or so into the next year, but Creighton didn't resign until almost Christmas. 

[smedindy]

I didn't think DPU as 'high profile' 

[wally_wabash]

It all depends on what opportunities present themselves to Watts, whether or not he's actively seeking out opportunities (creating opportunities as it were), and what kind of dollars get attached to any kind of offer that is extended to him.  I admittedly don't have a firm grasp on what the salary range for D3 HCs is, but my understanding is that these aren't super wealthy positions...opportunities elsewhere can certainly provide a little more security and comfortable living.  Like I said, it just depends on what Watts' ambitions are and how actively he's seeking out a new rung to stand on. 

And now, unfortunately, I do have to rain just a tad on the OWU/Watts parade.  With a loaded defense and the league's OPOY, the best team that OWU beat this year was 6-4 Kenyon.  Or maybe 6-4 CWRU.  Both at home.  You can maybe say at CMU, but if you peel away the layers, they got to CMU when CMU was a crippled shell of the team that they were in the first 5 weeks of the season.  Once you scrub away that Watts took a grossly underacheiving team and got them to play to something nearing their potential (which should not be ignored, that is after all a big part of what a coach is supposed to be doing), they didn't beat anybody that makes me super tingly.  I'd really like to see how it goes next year when he's got to replace a lot of big, important pieces on that defense and has to go win games at Wabash and at Wittenberg.  Flip another 9-1 next year and I'm all in.  Right now, I'm cautiously optimistic about Watts and OWU. 

[Bishopleftiesdad]

It all depends on what opportunities present themselves to Watts, whether or not he's actively seeking out opportunities (creating opportunities as it were), and what kind of dollars get attached to any kind of offer that is extended to him.  I admittedly don't have a firm grasp on what the salary range for D3 HCs is, but my understanding is that these aren't super wealthy positions...opportunities elsewhere can certainly provide a little more security and comfortable living.  Like I said, it just depends on what Watts' ambitions are and how actively he's seeking out a new rung to stand on. 

And now, unfortunately, I do have to rain just a tad on the OWU/Watts parade.  With a loaded defense and the league's OPOY, the best team that OWU beat this year was 6-4 Kenyon.  Or maybe 6-4 CWRU.  Both at home.  You can maybe say at CMU, but if you peel away the layers, they got to CMU when CMU was a crippled shell of the team that they were in the first 5 weeks of the season.  Once you scrub away that Watts took a grossly underacheiving team and got them to play to something nearing their potential (which should not be ignored, that is after all a big part of what a coach is supposed to be doing), they didn't beat anybody that makes me super tingly.  I'd really like to see how it goes next year when he's got to replace a lot of big, important pieces on that defense and has to go win games at Wabash and at Wittenberg.  Flip another 9-1 next year and I'm all in.  Right now, I'm cautiously optimistic about Watts and OWU.

I have posted similar comments in the past. Not quite as elegantly as you, but the same Cautious optimism. They are not Witt and Wabash yet, but they have something to build on.

[sigma one]

Have I missed something?  Watt's has just arrived at OWU and had a more than successful first year.  He's rejuvenated the football program, or begun to.  Wally makes good points about being cautious, but they won against the teams put in front of them.  OWU is in a good location, so near Columbus.  One key may be how well he can recruit the numbers necessary for continuing success, how convincing he can be when going after talent that has choices among a number of Ohio schools.  The 9-1 record gives him ammunition. 
     It's not unusual for a coach to stay with his successful program for a long time, even for his whole career.  Other coaches at OWU seem to stick around, so maybe the pay is acceptable, and maybe comparable to pay at other DIII institutions.  And maybe the inside-the-athletic  department conditions and relationships on campus are favorable. 
     One reason, of course, successful coaches sometimes go is for the challenge elsewhere, to get closer to home, to the institution where he is an alum, etc. (and for a big raise, but how much of this happens in DIII?).  When Creighton left Wabash for Drake, he had just completed a string of good seasons--and he had just lost 47-7 deep in the playoffs v. UW Whitewater.  It's reasonable to believe that he thought he had taken Wabash as far as he could given the talent he could recruit and still fallen far short of his ulltimate goal of a national championship.  There may have been other personal reasons, which came into play, but these we will never know.
     A lot, of course, depends upon a coach's ambition, perhaps as much sometimes as the success of the program he is leading.  Maybe Watts will be at OWU for a long time.  (I've not heard or seen discussions of other coaches--Raeburn, et al--who got off to a fast start.  Again, why this about Watts; am I missing something?  Or is it just the time of year when we create topics in the vacuum of the off season?     

[smedindy]

This was all just an inquiry by an OWU fan who doesn't want Watts to get stolen away. But this isn't D-1, thankfully.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

There is no reason to believe that Watts will be on the move. I have a son that plays baseball at OWU. With OWU's success this season there are several parents of local players that are considering OWU and this is a question they ask me. I also have friends who have taken notice of OWU's success and they ask me the same thing. I follow D# football but not nearly like I do baseball. So I asked the question in the forum.

There are o rumors or concerns, it is more of a general question. My son asked each of the coaches that was recruiting him a similar question so it makes sense that recruits would want to know.

Thanks for everyone's answers.

[sigma one]

Thanks, gentlemen.  In a sentence, Watts is good for the NCAC; I'm sure we all hope he sticks arouond.

[ExTartanPlayer]

It's not unusual for a coach to stay with his successful program for a long time, even for his whole career.

One reason, of course, successful coaches sometimes go is for the challenge elsewhere, to get closer to home, to the institution where he is an alum, etc.

A lot, of course, depends upon a coach's ambition, perhaps as much sometimes as the success of the program he is leading. 

Just wanted to highlight these points, not specifically as they pertain to Watts, but to Division III coaches as a whole.  If a particular coach wants to be a head man at a big-time school or make a lot of money, he'll take any chance to move "upwards" he can get (whether that means going to an assistant's job in a higher division or to a head-coaching job at a more glamorous program), but not all coaches are wired that way.  Some are happily married and making a decent wage in their current position and will gladly stay for personal reasons.  If I was a 55-year-old coach getting paid $75,000 a year to coach a Division III football program in a city that I liked, with a staff and AD that I liked, and it was a comfortable situation for my family...I'd probably be content to stay there.  But if I was a 34-year-old "hot prospect" that got off to a real fast start in my first head coaching job and a bigger school came calling, I might think differently.

[formerd3db]

It's not unusual for a coach to stay with his successful program for a long time, even for his whole career.

One reason, of course, successful coaches sometimes go is for the challenge elsewhere, to get closer to home, to the institution where he is an alum, etc.

A lot, of course, depends upon a coach's ambition, perhaps as much sometimes as the success of the program he is leading. 

Just wanted to highlight these points, not specifically as they pertain to Watts, but to Division III coaches as a whole.  If a particular coach wants to be a head man at a big-time school or make a lot of money, he'll take any chance to move "upwards" he can get (whether that means going to an assistant's job in a higher division or to a head-coaching job at a more glamorous program), but not all coaches are wired that way.  Some are happily married and making a decent wage in their current position and will gladly stay for personal reasons.  If I was a 55-year-old coach getting paid $75,000 a year to coach a Division III football program in a city that I liked, with a staff and AD that I liked, and it was a comfortable situation for my family...I'd probably be content to stay there.  But if I was a 34-year-old "hot prospect" that got off to a real fast start in my first head coaching job and a bigger school came calling, I might think differently.

Ex-Tartan:

First, congratulations on your 100th +k!  

Also, good comments re: coaching thoughts above.  For sure, each person has to evaluate their own situations and particularly if they are married and have families.  Certainly easier to make such moves when one is younger.  Without question, there are some who find content in spending their entire career at one place if the situation works out that way that they can.  I will also share one personal example of that with you that I know.  My own college coach was a football star at UCLA (he grew up out there), a two-way starter both at FB and LB, played in the East-West Shrine Bowl, Hula Bowl, was selected to one of the All-American teams and also played 5 years in the Canadian Football League.  I am very close with him and one time he told me that he had been offered the HC job at one of the major DI schools in California (I won't mention which one, but it was not of the likes of San Jose State, etc. but rather one of the big ones), which he turned down, including a major salary (obviously, a huge increase over what he made at Hope).  Despite his playing DI ball, he felt that his place was in DIII and he fully believed in the DIII philosophy.  Bottom line...$ isn't everything nor the final "end all" means -but...I think we all know that.  Again, everyone has to make their own decisions and then live with those in the long term.  Anyway, all these situations are what I guess makes Pat's "Following the Coaching Carousel" so interesting - at least it is for me (except for when people are fired! .       

[ExTartanPlayer]

Interesting, formerd3db, thanks for passing your anecdote along!  I also believe that some people are just content where they are, whether it's because they believe in the school's mission, just like their hometown, or any other reason...and there's no shame in staying someplace you're happy! 

I don't begrudge anyone a choice to further their career, but I do think some people put aside other "life" considerations solely in pursuit of the big promotion, the big house (and this goes far beyond a discussion of football coaching jobs).  This quote from Sports Illustrated column, which I read as a seventh-grader, struck a chord with me and I've remembered it ever since:

"See, grown-ups spend so much time doggedly slaving toward the better car, the perfect house, the big day that will finally make them happy when happy just walked by wearing a bicycle helmet two sizes too big for him. We're not here to find a way to heaven. The way is heaven. Does that answer your question, son?"

The full column can be found here:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/lifeofreilly/1999/0412/

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yeah, many coaches see d3 as a stepping stone to the limelight; but others fall in love with the concept, opportunity to TEACH, and (relative) lack of pressure.  Can anyone doubt that football coaches like Kehres and Gagliardi, or basketball coaches like Bridges (many others, but I'm drawing a blank on specific names right now - I'm old, forgive me! ) have had plenty of big-bucks offers?

To each their own, and I'll support a quality coach whichever path he chooses (but have a special fondness for the d3 'lifers'!)

[formerd3db]

Yeah, many coaches see d3 as a stepping stone to the limelight; but others fall in love with the concept, opportunity to TEACH, and (relative) lack of pressure.  Can anyone doubt that football coaches like Kehres and Gagliardi, or basketball coaches like Bridges (many others, but I'm drawing a blank on specific names right now - I'm old, forgive me! ) have had plenty of big-bucks offers?

To each their own, and I'll support a quality coach whichever path he chooses (but have a special fondness for the d3 'lifers'!)

Agree with you both on those aspects Ex-Tartan and Mr. Ypsi.  I just posted this on the other board  - another example is Kent State's Hazell who just took the Purdue job.  A nice raise for him from $300,000 at Kent State to most likely well over a million.  Can't fault him for that.  As I mentioned, a good move for Purdue I believe but a bummer loss for Kent State (Hazell was also a former DIII player at Muskingum College and an assistant at Army, Western Michigan, Rutgers and for 7 years at Ohio State on Tressel's staff).

BTW Ex-T, thanks for the link to the SI article - very neat.

[ohiofan1954]

as a fan of the mac and ohio university I can say that there are three kinds of coaches there. Those that are good and will be hired away in 3 years or less(hazel), those that are bad and will be fired in 3 years or less(ianello)and those that are .500 coaches who will staty longer. The one exception being Frank Solich. Two reasons he hasn't left are his age and the d.u.i. Be gratefull when your programs have success you don't lose your coach as almost always happens in the mac. Oh by the way that is a complaint , if I was in Hazel's or a similar coach's situation I would do the same, most people would.