FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[wally_wabash]

Just a heads up that 2013 NCAC Pick 'Em will get underway in the next couple of days for those who are interested in trying to join the distinguished hall of champions.  It is a grueling, 11-week test of endurance, but as a former champion myself I can testify that the euphoria you feel after winning lasts literally for hours. 

Week 1 games are scheduled to be posted on 8/31, unless I get antsy and do it sooner.  Which is probable. 

[DPU3619]

Well, I went back to do some checking.  It looks like 42/3 freshmen, with 18 from Indiana.  And on the roster 50 from outside Indiana of about 105 total.  I don't know if that's a much different ratio from past years, but it seems so. 
   This is a half-baked theory; many of mine are.  Does the geograhy of the roster have anything to do with recent Bell Game results?  I'm not saying caused the results. 

It's possible that it has some effect, but I think there are multiple other factors, too.  DePauw has always recruited the Chicagoland area well.  Lots of names from Glenbrook, Evanston, and Wilmette type areas.  You mentioned the 3 from New Trier.  That's a big part of it.  Another factor is that Franklin is now a serious player in Indiana D3 recruiting.  Mike Leonard can coach, yall.  That thins the list some.  Marian is a serious player for those guys that would be really dynamic D3 players. 

It pains me to say this, but if you have kids that place a high priority on winning, where are they going to go? Wabash, Franklin, and Marian, right?  I go through this with my players at the HS level.  I sent a kid to Wabash this year.  There were lots of other reasons why he made that choice than just winning, but it still is what it is.  Great program on one hand.  Not so great program on the other hand.  Tough for DePauw to be in that race with where they are right now and where they've been since Lynch left.

I do think that you'll see it swing back to being more 50/50 in-state/out-of-state as we go a few years down the road because 1) DePauw will be better and 2) Lynch is literally the best in-state recruiter I've ever seen or known.  That's not praise that I use lightly.  He does it better than anybody I've ever seen.  He knows everybody in this state.

[smedindy]

If the schools are of similar academic profile and the recruit can have academic success at either school, then winners will probably rule.

I do think that Wabash and DPU attact different students in aggregate than Franklin or Marian. How that reflects on football recruits, I don't know. But not everyone who can get into Franklin will be accepted at Wabash, that's a fact.

[DPU3619]

If the schools are of similar academic profile and the recruit can have academic success at either school, then winners will probably rule.

I'm aware that there are many factors in why Student A chooses University X, Y, or Z.  My point is that good teams have an easier road with recruits than bad ones, even at this level.  That's a blantantly obvious statement overall, but I think it's a larger factor than a lot of people think at this level.  I think it's harder right now for DePauw to recruit in Indiana than it was 5 or 10 years ago for a few reasons.  It's too expensive.  The administration made a big deal about the Princeton Review.  The Greek System is struggling.  Those factors have nothing to do with wins, losses, or new facilities.

Yes, some (maybe more than some) kids that consider DePauw/Wabash will never consider Franklin.  I agree that's true.  But, I think there's a lot more high quality football players that would be DePauw and/or Wabash type candidates that consider Franklin today that would have never considered Franklin a decade ago.  It's a busier landscape in Indiana with more good teams.  The quality of football being played isn't necessarily a critical factor for every high school football player, but for those that it is, DePauw is going to be challenged to recruit them at this point in time.  If DePauw starts going 9-1 or 8-2 again, then they have a lot more to offer than Franklin across the board, in my opinion.  But, as long as they win 4-6 games every year, the "winners" aren't coming.

[bashbrother]

If the schools are of similar academic profile and the recruit can have academic success at either school, then winners will probably rule.

I'm aware that there are many factors in why Student A chooses University X, Y, or Z.  My point is that good teams have an easier road with recruits than bad ones, even at this level.  That's a blantantly obvious statement overall, but I think it's a larger factor than a lot of people think at this level.

Depauw stepped up and did what they needed to do to change/begin to change that tide.   Re-hiring Lynch was a great move and upgrading the facilities as they did was necessary.    For other schools that have never won or really have no tradition of winning,  it is very hard for them to ever climb out of their historic hole.

I still look back to the OWU Bishops rejuvenation and while last year was just that; a year and yes, they didn't play Wittenberg,  I believe it is a major example of what a new coaching staff could and did bring to a program that had talent waiting to be motivated and led.    They just had to learn to be winners.   At any level,  4-6 to 9-1... means something worked.

Depauw and Wooster will be our latest views of the impact of coaching changes on programs.   I believe Depauw will have the most immediate improvement and have a larger upside,  I still believe Wooster will improve it's was back to it's spot in the upper part of the middle tier of the NCAC.

With College Football officially kicking off a little while ago (S. Carolina 17  N. Carolina 7 - 2nd Qtr.  ESPN) (USC - Hawaii later)  all of us can celebrate and welcome another year of the greatest sport on the planet.... College Football.

First beer of the season!  http://youtu.be/E3fPEK5geK0

WAF!

[smedindy]

If the schools are of similar academic profile and the recruit can have academic success at either school, then winners will probably rule.

I'm aware that there are many factors in why Student A chooses University X, Y, or Z.  My point is that good teams have an easier road with recruits than bad ones, even at this level.  That's a blantantly obvious statement overall, but I think it's a larger factor than a lot of people think at this level.  I think it's harder right now for DePauw to recruit in Indiana than it was 5 or 10 years ago for a few reasons.  It's too expensive.  The administration made a big deal about the Princeton Review.  The Greek System is struggling.  Those factors have nothing to do with wins, losses, or new facilities.

Yes, some (maybe more than some) kids that consider DePauw/Wabash will never consider Franklin.  I agree that's true.  But, I think there's a lot more high quality football players that would be DePauw and/or Wabash type candidates that consider Franklin today that would have never considered Franklin a decade ago.  It's a busier landscape in Indiana with more good teams.  The quality of football being played isn't necessarily a critical factor for every high school football player, but for those that it is, DePauw is going to be challenged to recruit them at this point in time.  If DePauw starts going 9-1 or 8-2 again, then they have a lot more to offer than Franklin across the board, in my opinion.  But, as long as they win 4-6 games every year, the "winners" aren't coming.

Is admissions struggling for DPU as a whole, then? Because your first paragraph sounds like it's not a football problem there, it's a campus problem.

Winning does breed winning, sure. But if you're a D-3 level recruit, academics plays a big factor and I mainly meant it as in this - Player X may not be able to get admission into Wabash or DPU, but probably looks at Franklin as choice A instead of the pu pu platter of HCAC teams.

Now Player Y may be get admitted into all three, but I bet academics and finances will play a choice along with winning.

[Li'l Giant]

With College Football officially kicking off a little while ago (S. Carolina 17  N. Carolina 7 - 2nd Qtr.  ESPN) (USC - Hawaii later)  all of us can celebrate and welcome another year of the greatest sport on the planet.... College Football.

First beer of the season!  http://youtu.be/E3fPEK5geK0

WAF!

Beer, pizza, and wings tonight with college football on my TV. We should have put those things on that diagram we tacked on the side of the Voyager probe to show aliens the best of humanity.

[DPU3619]

Is admissions struggling for DPU as a whole, then? Because your first paragraph sounds like it's not a football problem there, it's a campus problem.

They've said that they're having a difficult time finding enough males.  The ratio has gone far more female in recent years.  But, I think that's a problem for everybody.  It may not be as big of a problem for schools with lower academic requirements, though.

But, you've still missed my point entirely.  18 year olds who go to college to play football care about where they go to play football.  That's where the fit is more important than the other things.  I told you I understand what you're saying.  The campus and the facilities and the academics are a factor, but every high school player I've been around chose to go where they wanted to PLAY.  Franklin is getting better players.  They're getting them from Indiana.  They didn't just get kids that nobody cared about.  They're taking kids away from the other schools at this level in this area.  That's all I'm saying.  Totally different academic profiles, yes.  Totally different college environments, yes.  But look at Franklin's roster.  It's practically all Indiana kids.  And those are kids that could be helping DePauw get better.  Or Wabash get better.  It's not as cut and dried as "Franklin's academics aren't as good so nobody smart ever goes there," which appears to me to be what you're saying. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Is admissions struggling for DPU as a whole, then? Because your first paragraph sounds like it's not a football problem there, it's a campus problem.

They've said that they're having a difficult time finding enough males.  The ratio has gone far more female in recent years.  But, I think that's a problem for everybody.  It may not be as big of a problem for schools with lower academic requirements, though.

An imbalance towards females doesn't seem to be a problem in Crawfordsville!

[Li'l Giant]

Player X may not be able to get admission into Wabash or DPU, but probably looks at Franklin as choice A instead of the pu pu platter of HCAC teams.

Now Player Y may be get admitted into all three, but I bet academics and finances will play a choice along with winning.

I think Wes's point was that some kids are going to get into all 3 and.........{gasp}........choose to go to Franklin over Wabash and DPU because they want to play football at Franklin. Who knows how often that happens? But we can't rightfully say it doesn't ever happen either can we?

[big_bash]

The ratio has gone far more female in recent years.

I've said for many years, DePauw is a great school... for women. 

[wally_wabash]

Well look at that.  A five year silence is broken to get in a good DePauw blast.  Turn up the heat! 

Player X may not be able to get admission into Wabash or DPU, but probably looks at Franklin as choice A instead of the pu pu platter of HCAC teams.

Now Player Y may be get admitted into all three, but I bet academics and finances will play a choice along with winning.

I think Wes's point was that some kids are going to get into all 3 and.........{gasp}........choose to go to Franklin over Wabash and DPU because they want to play football at Franklin. Who knows how often that happens? But we can't rightfully say it doesn't ever happen either can we?

Agree with LG and OPW here.  I think it's probably a little naive, in this day and age, to think that kids aren't choosing a coach as much or more than they are choosing a school.  Rightly or wrongly, that's a thing that happens.  There is absolutely a subset of players in the state that are targeted by Wabash and DePauw and Franklin and Marian and St. Vincent and Trine.  And they don't all wind up choosing Wabash or DePauw because they are "better" schools.  Some kids choose Mike Leonard or Matt Land instead of Erik Raeburn.  It happens. 

I think this kind of ties in to sigma one's comment a while back about how the horse is out of the barn in DIII.  That was about the always increasing numbers of kids staying on campus all summer to work out and participate in "unorganized" 7 on 7s and mainly how football is becoming more and more a full year deal for players even in DIII.  I think you can extend that line to the role of your head football coach as an admissions officer.  I know we probably feel a little icky when we talk about the business side of running a college, but those coaches are more and more and more responsible for bringing 100-ish young men to a campus.  And at institutions of our size, that's a really significant percentage of the male enrollment (or total enrollment in Wabash's case).  To not realize their importance in the admissions process in 2013 is to forfeit your ability to bring young men, and their deposits, to your institution. 

[wally_wabash]

Really good Wabash preview in The Bachelor, including a separate piece on the quarterback competition.  The current sports editor went a different way, but back in my day this would have been a mortal lock for a pullout quote:

We're just trying to sort out who we think the five best players are, and then we'll move them around so two of them play tackle, two of them play guard, and one of them play center.

-Erik Raeburn

He's the best coach in the league, folks. 

[gobash83]

I think you can extend that line to the role of your head football coach as an admissions officer.  I know we probably feel a little icky when we talk about the business side of running a college, but those coaches are more and more and more responsible for bringing 100-ish young men to a campus.  And at institutions of our size, that's a really significant percentage of the male enrollment (or total enrollment in Wabash's case).  To not realize their importance in the admissions process in 2013 is to forfeit your ability to bring young men, and their deposits, to your institution. 

Honestly, I think that Wabash has had a long history of coaches serving as de facto admissions officers.  I can still remember the "W Night" at the Holiday Star Plaza that I attended in 1978 where the football staff was there in force to meet and greet high school seniors.  It didn't matter if you were a football player or not, they all worked the room and sold Wabash. 

As for DPU, I don't disagree that fewer men are attending college in general and that trend would impact DePauw.  I am sure that DPU faces other challenges as well (as do all other liberal arts colleges).  At the same time, if you look at the other male sports, it seems as if they have full rosters.  For example, men's soccer has 48 players--a huge roster by any standard--and that was after cuts. Baseball has 33.  I suspect that the problem is finding enough males who want to play football at a program that has stuggled in recent years.     

[formerd3db]

Well look at that.  A five year silence is broken to get in a good DePauw blast.  Turn up the heat! 

Player X may not be able to get admission into Wabash or DPU, but probably looks at Franklin as choice A instead of the pu pu platter of HCAC teams.

Now Player Y may be get admitted into all three, but I bet academics and finances will play a choice along with winning.

I think Wes's point was that some kids are going to get into all 3 and.........{gasp}........choose to go to Franklin over Wabash and DPU because they want to play football at Franklin. Who knows how often that happens? But we can't rightfully say it doesn't ever happen either can we?

Agree with LG and OPW here.  I think it's probably a little naive, in this day and age, to think that kids aren't choosing a coach as much or more than they are choosing a school.  Rightly or wrongly, that's a thing that happens.  There is absolutely a subset of players in the state that are targeted by Wabash and DePauw and Franklin and Marian and St. Vincent and Trine.  And they don't all wind up choosing Wabash or DePauw because they are "better" schools.  Some kids choose Mike Leonard or Matt Land instead of Erik Raeburn.  It happens. 

I think this kind of ties in to sigma one's comment a while back about how the horse is out of the barn in DIII.  That was about the always increasing numbers of kids staying on campus all summer to work out and participate in "unorganized" 7 on 7s and mainly how football is becoming more and more a full year deal for players even in DIII.  I think you can extend that line to the role of your head football coach as an admissions officer.  I know we probably feel a little icky when we talk about the business side of running a college, but those coaches are more and more and more responsible for bringing 100-ish young men to a campus.  And at institutions of our size, that's a really significant percentage of the male enrollment (or total enrollment in Wabash's case).  To not realize their importance in the admissions process in 2013 is to forfeit your ability to bring young men, and their deposits, to your institution.

wally:

Very good post; I agree with you.  In this current era, without question, head coaches at the DIII level for the majority of schools I dare say, are under tremendous pressure to maintain those numbers for the reasons you mention.  With no athletic scholarships and the cost of tuition continuing to rise, it is becoming more and more difficult to do that, especially in attempting to bring in some of the better talented student-athletes.

Another aspect, which I've discussed with other of our colleagues on the boards here, is the DII and NAIA scholarship schools faction, particularly in our Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and PA region.  Certainly, with regard to the GLIAC Mid-west region, despite the high quality academics of the DIII schools we are talking about, if one's son is good enough to play at the DII level, the DIII schools are simply not getting those kids anymore because getting 1/2 the tuition on a "full ride" at a GLIAC school, for example, tips the decision for many families (and assuming that most of us agree that NAIA school talent level is the same as many DIII schools, many of these kids are choosing the scholarship offer regardless of the academic factors of a school - every amount of $ helps, even in the smallest amounts).  That is just the way it is today as you and some others have pointed out.   Much has changed in the last 10-15 years.   

Anyway, thanks for a good discussion.