FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[ExTartanPlayer]

ExTartan Player

This may come as a shock to you, but there a players of D1 quality that play at the D3 level.  There are some kids who recognize that when you sign that D1 letter of intent, they own you lock stock and barrel for the next four or five years.   Some kids at the D3 level attend a particular school for the educational experience rather than go to a D1 school where they spend 8 to 10 hours a day focused on football.

Why would that come as a shock to me?  I'm well aware of that; I played with some. My roommate as a sophomore turned down offers from the "directional Michigan" schools for that very reason. No need for the lecture. In my first post, you'll note that I said I no longer make an automatic judgement when I see a big kid in D3. Nor is there a need to lecture me about the benefits of the Division 3 experience, considering that I lived it and frequently champion the benefits of its balance between competitive football and good academics.

[firstdown]

ExTartan - I didn't mean to lecture you at all.  Your statement in your earlier post suggested that D1 size players in D3 might not really have been D1 material for whatever reason. 
I took your statement as a generalization, and that you were making a valid point.  Wabash does have a 6 foot 7 inch player on the OL.  He dropped his weight from 370 pounds by approximately 100 pounds and spent time with strength and conditioning.  As a result of Coach Raeburn challenging him on his weight and good coaching, he had developed into a very good player.   My point is that there are some players in D3 for whatever reason who had with D1 talent (from the get-go) and that there are some players with D1 size that took a little longer to get to a point of being able to play at their full potential.  To be sure, there are also some big guys that have two left feet and always will.

[GRIZ_BACKER]

http://deadspin.com/how-division-iii-colleges-profit-from-football-no-one-w-1440369611

Pat Coleman was consulted on this article in Deadspin.

[AlleghenyAlum]

Indeed, that is a huge line for DIII standards. 

Seems like that is the pattern in many situations i.e. either you have a huge line of very good players and not as talented elite skilled positions...

In Division III, I actually think that it's more common to have a huge line of NOT-very-good players (although I suspect that Wabash's big guys are pretty good, judging by the team's production thus far).  My signature line's quote is admittedly an attempt at self-deprecating humor, but I held up at 5'11" and 240ish in a run-first offense, no less.  Now I do think that bigger CAN be better if the big guy moves well, but I've seen plenty of big guys playing D3 who weren't any good.

The Wabash production speaks for itself; those guys can play.  But I've never really looked at the size on a Division III team's OL and used that to judge whether I thought they were good or not.

But at the same time your offense isn't based on a smash mouth running type of offense.  Your offense is basically built for quick o-lineman. Bigger is often better when all else are equal.

Welcome, AlleghenyAlum!  Please stick around, despite the Gators' current sorry state, it is good to have posters from more schools represented!

Yes, you are correct that our offense is not a brute-force offense, and the second part of your post - "when all else are equal" - is the key.  Often the big guys playing D3 are playing D3 for a reason, as one might say, and it's because they're lacking something in their game (otherwise they may have been picked up by a higher level school).  Sure, if they're equally athletic, I'll take a 6'4" and 290 pounder over a wee mite like myself, but how many athletic guys that size are left over once D-1 has had their pick?  Not that many.  In any case, let's move on.

You sound quite displeased with the current state of affairs in Meadville.  Do you care to elaborate?  We've certainly noted the lack of athletes on the squad, but the lack of spirit is what's really troubling; even in some years when Allegheny hasn't been particularly strong, they seemed to get up for big games.  I recall my one H2H matchup against Gheny, which I admittedly lost, as a game where the Gators were clearly EXCITED in all caps to be there; they treated it like the Super Bowl.  That doesn't seem to be the case this year.

Are you an alum of recent vintage, may I ask?  Did we knock heads, perhaps?

It's always disappointing to see your school do terribly.  It's weird when I was at Allegheny there were always studs, guys that you looked up to and teams that were supposed to be awesome, and then their teams ended up being 5-5.  When I look back I would say the 2010, 2011 teams were outliers.  When you look at those years more specifically you see that Allegheny had a great defense (which is to be expected), but also a QB that was a 4 year starter and had a strong arm.  Not only that, but he had skill players around him.  The last time you see an Allegheny team with these features is 2003 (if I remember correctly) and they were great as well.

I don't know if this is a trend or what, but something that also changed is the defensive coordinator.  Kashurba was a great DC and always had guys in the right places at the right times.

I think Allegheny could definitely go for the goose egg this year and I've heard there is a lack of motivation behind the scenes, but as with anything else you get what you put in. 

This response is all over the place and I apologize, just trying to take in the board little by little!

[AlleghenyAlum]

AlleghenyAlum.       Welcome to the Board.  Awfully bold statement, and you are seeing some reaction and questions.  Without scholarships,  every year many DIII players who have lost heart for the game or found something they like better or find out they want to concentrate on academics walk away from the game.  The ones who stick around usually love the experience, and if down the depth chart enjoy being part of the team.  So, what IS going on at Allegheny?  Or are you hearing from a few disgruntled players after absorbing big early losses or guys who think they should be playing more when the team is losing?  Or what?

No, no specifics, just heard the practice, preparation, lifting, and leadership is lacking with this bunch.

Also in my previous comment I was referring to the 2009, 2010 teams.

[AlleghenyAlum]

Also on the subject of the Gheny squad, when you don't have many athletes and the kids don't care, you're gonna have a bad time.

I really hope the South Park reference here was intentional and not just a product of my having watched way too much South Park.

You're not crazy! haha

[wally_wabash]

Also on the subject of the Gheny squad, when you don't have many athletes and the kids don't care, you're gonna have a bad time.

I really hope the South Park reference here was intentional and not just a product of my having watched way too much South Park.

You're not crazy! haha

Fantastic.  You....you I like. 

Thanks for the insight on things in Meadville.  Definitely helps to have some insight from somebody a little closer to the school.  I think we were about one more big loss away from speculating that things are in full Lord of the Flies mode out there. 

[ExTartanPlayer]

http://deadspin.com/how-division-iii-colleges-profit-from-football-no-one-w-1440369611

Pat Coleman was consulted on this article in Deadspin.

Great stuff from Pat.  Funny to read the article comments; guys talking about it as "high level intramurals" and saying that kids get steered away from tough majors in D3.  Maybe at some schools, but I think MOST D3 football schools/coaches are very accommodating of that sort of thing.  CMU and CWRU both schedule their practices around kids' lab time for a few of the largest engineering classes, and kids that miss part of practice because of a conflicting class or lecture are generally not penalized for doing so (assuming that they are otherwise hard workers and they're not skipping practice for class every day, of course).

[nike]

Still chuckle when I see that a team in the NCAC conference beat another NCAC team in a non-conference game.

[bashbrother]

Ok,  this board is definitely enjoying the influx of new posters from different NCAC schools in the past two weeks.    It has been great to get HCAlums Hiram take.....  AlleghenyAlum....  some great stuff already.....

Come on Kenyon alums/fans/player parents... could be on a (3) game winning streak after the next two weeks,  Denison... we know you are out there.. your team is showing strength this year.   Witt... Come on Man....   Oberlin .....  Give us some insight on your team this year... Calling more Bishops!   Depauw..... come on....  one post.  Young team... but Lynch is going to bring you back.   And Finally Wooster.... ScottLass or others... bring a post....   

We all know that many more people from I am sure every school view this board on a daily/weekly basis.....   Let's keep this going and try to get one post from a representative of every NCAC school in the next week.   Simply  register with an email and create a password and your in. 

[Bishopleftiesdad]

Bash Brother +1

[nike]

Have been watching the bag pipes march down the hill for 25 years at the College of Wooster.  Which thankfully includes the Sutton years.
Actually think coaching has already made a difference, just as it did so quickly last year in Delaware.  Barnes and the offense look much improved as does the overall team and attitude and enthusiasm seem genuine.
Not predicting an upset, but an enjoyable afternoon of football.  Wabash defense most impressive unit I have seen this year.  Your freshman db may be one of the best ever before he is done.  And I love the highlight clips some of the NCAC teams are doing after the games.

[BashBacker#16]

I cannot wait to see the result of the Wabash/Wooster game - it will be interesting to see the Barnes vs. Wabash D.  I think one of the biggest strengths of our D is SPEED.  They can flat out fly and I really feel that is going to provide a lot of trouble for the Scots.  At the start of the season, who would have thought Houston Hodges wouldn't need to be used on the D side of the ball???  That is crazy.  Welcome Mr. Delon Pettiford!    

A couple of randoms:

- even though Allegheny is really struggling this year, I am a little surprised that Mason Zurek isn't getting more pub from the board and in general.  He looked great last week and I hope he continues stepping up each week.  I love the compliment of Stella and CP too.

- there is always discussion on this board about struggling programs, about programs trying to get things turned around, yadda yadda...  Being a Wabash guy, we really are pretty spoiled with the success we have had going back quite a ways.  I remember Coach Creighton going 7-3 (cough cough, someone was a Soph QB on that team) and it was as if we had a brutal, nightmarish year!  Since Coach Raeburn has been here, he's elevated the program even higher to where we have a year last year - go 8-2 and we're all miserable.  How about ER's record at Bash at 50-9!!  We are spoiled but I love it.

WAF

[gobash83]

Does anyone know if there is an organized Wabash tailgate for the game at Wooster?  My daughter's team plays at Wooster on Saturday as well and I thought I would "double dip" by watching her match and then the rest of the football game.       

[wabashcpa]

Reading about how the Merchant Marine Academy won't be playing this weekend - not even in class because faculty has been furloughed.  But Army, Navy, and Air Force will play, since they fall under Dept of Defense.  And even Coast Guard will play since they fall under Homeland Security.  But USMMA?  No such luck - you are Dept of Transportation, and thus non-essential, apparently.  Enough to make your head spin.