FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[GRIZ_BACKER]

Griz_Backer

The only focus for Wabash is Hiram.  While Franklin is to be commended for its games with Mount Union and Butler, one might ask the same question.  With all due respect, steam rolling a bunch of cream puffs like the HCAC does not help make your case.  I have no doubt that Franklin will make some noise the big dance, but polls are really beauty contests or like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin and give fans something to discuss between Saturdays.

I wasnt the one on here complaining about rankings, etc.  Franklin is where it should be.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Griz_Backer

The only focus for Wabash is Hiram.  While Franklin is to be commended for its games with Mount Union and Butler, one might ask the same question.  With all due respect, steam rolling a bunch of cream puffs like the HCAC does not help make your case.  I have no doubt that Franklin will make some noise the big dance, but polls are really beauty contests or like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin and give fans something to discuss between Saturdays.

I wasnt the one on here complaining about rankings, etc.  Franklin is where it should be.

He's right, it was a Bash guy who originally brought up Franklin's ranking.

[bashgiant]

Putko hasn't been perfect and there is certainly much to improve.  But he's played six freaking games (and lost a grand total of zero).  And probably about 20 quarters in those six games.  Trust the system and have a little patience.
[/quote]

I was leaning the other way but your post hit the nail on the head Wally. All the QB's had a chance to show their stuff in camp and obviously Putko had the right stuff. I think I'm going to start believing instead of doubting. Thanks for the wake up call Wally! Brett Farve said it pretty good.


"But if you just believe in what you're doing and believe in the guys who have to step up and hope that they believe in themselves, anything can happen."

Brett Favre

Go Bash!!
7-0

[sigma one]

Lots of terrific posts today.  Catching up:  congratulations to Espinosa.  I've beaten this horse not just dead, but then cremated.  Jake Knott, as noted earlier, passed for 11,213 yards in his career.  Wabash did not join the NCAC until his sophomore year, but they played in what I am going to argue was a comparable conference, minus a Wittenberg.  Knott also threw 116 TD passes in 43 games.  He did this in an offense that could both run and throw.  Shared seasons with Chris Morris, the Wabash all-time leading ground gainer.  Knowtt threw 1601 passes in those 43 games--37 a game.  He passed for a TD every 13.8 passes. 
     Lastly, separate number:  He ran for a net of 740 yds.  He was a pocket-passer, with a great feel for the field, but he could get out and get forward.  And I've never seen a QB intentionally throw more balls out on the track and live to fight another day.  If it wasn't there, he didn't usually try for it--though his INT total of 47 (I think) may dispute this.  Sometimes I do think his big arm and confidence made him believe he could squeeze it into tight spaces.  And he could throw the deep out a well as anyone I've seen. (by the way, so could Harbaugh).  Why he is not on the list is headscratching.  So much for attention to the details by whoever puts the list together.
     It's been fun watching Espinosa sling it around. Against Wabash, he's taken some punishment and come right back.  Won't it be fascinating this year when decisions are made on the all-NCAC QB?  Florence (really, really good), Barnes (more this year to the potential we all think he has--plenty of yds. for Wooster's offense), even Sklenar (but he's a step down, while leading Dension to a strong season--and took apart OWU).  Could Hunt at DPU be a strong candidate for Newcomer of the year?  Having a fine year and a big part of their recent surge.  Um, victory over OWU.  Then, there's, what's his name; oh yea, Putko.  Wabash is 7-0.  What happens if the LGs finish unbeaten with him at the helm?  There are only two QBs who will be named.   1st and 2nd.  I'd give my paycheck (which come to think about it is $0) to be a fly on the wall when the coaches make their choices.
     Finally, my two cents on Franklin.  Is there a team in DIII that right now really wants to face them?  I can think of only the top two or three that might feel comfortable about it.  And one of those might not be Mt. Union.  You can just see Franklin itching for a rematch, can't you?   From what I've heard, the loss to the number one DIII team in the country could have gone either way.  The loss to Butler is a throw away in my view.  Throw away both the Wittenberg loss and the Grizzlies' loss.  But if you insist on keeping it in as a marker, then, Franklin should beat Witt by, what, 5 or so TDs.  That's a real stretch.  I'm going to say Franklin played exceptionally well, and they knew what Butler would be, having played them before.  As for Witt, first game of season, down by 3 TDs early, shocked, probably a little embarrassed.    Butler better than they thought?  Only late scores made it at all respectable, and these v. the Butler reserves.  Probably just one of those bad first games of the season.     

[firstdown]

Griz-Backer  I wasn't the one complaining about the polls.  The regional rankings following the games on November 16th are the important numbers.  Being an Alabama fan, the polls that make up the BCS rankings are of much greater concern.  I am glad that the BCS is finally going to a playoff format.  I expect that the four team format will get expanded in the future to avoid some of the problems that have been seen in Division 3 such as the outrage in 1982.

The one ranking that I do enjoy is seeing Wabash ranked as number 3 in total defense in the NCAA stats released today just behind Mount Union and JCU and just ahead of UWW.  The defense and special teams have played very well for Wabash all year.  Their play along with the huge offensive live have given a quarterback in his first starting year time to round into the job.  Putko is doing a good job and is minimizing mistakes.  Wabash adjusting to the loss of two 1,000 yard plus running backs speaks volumes about Coach Raeburn's developing great depth on the team.  Stella, Klembara, Porter, and Gibson have stepped in to fill some big shoes very well.  The receiving corps is also doing a great job.  As players who have been nicked up return, and the others get over the bug that hit last weekend, the offense will round into form for the stretch run.

[wally_wabash]

Wally, why did you have to bring up Rocky Pentello again?

By the way, in view of the recent QB discussion, it is interesting to note that Mount Union hasn't had anyone on this list since the mid-90's, nor is anyone from Whitewater on the list.

It's a totally different story if you look at the rushing list.  Want to win titles?  Better be able to run and play some serious defense.  When was the last time a passing-first team won? Linfield in 2004?  And before that you've probably got to go back to some of those early Mount Union title teams in the Ballard and Borchert years. 

There's a reason that our offense has morphed into what it is now....ER knows what he's doing. 

[BashBacker#16]

SigmaGrizz,

You forgot to answer the question on the Wabash wideouts...

I've concluded that if Wabash has to face Franklin in the playoffs, they should just forfeit.  Why show up?  I mean, damn, Franklin only lost to Mount by 3 points!  Not only that, they scored 80 on Manchester!  To go on...the IndyStar dubbed them a D3 power and said "Wabash and DePauw are no longer automatically considered the best D3 teams in the state."  Then the clincher, the oh my God, they had 2,747 fans at home game during Fall break!!

Any chance of Franklin moving up to NCAA D1 (maybe D2) due to their current 31 game winning streak in the HCAC?  Lastly, it's easy to slam the teams at the bottom of each conference but seriously, how gross are teams like Anderson and Manchester?  To give you an idea, since we love to look at common opponents, look at what Hanover is doing to those teams.  The same Hanover team that lost to Bash 69-0.  Yuck.

Erik Raeburn vs Mike Leonard - that would be a killer matchup if it happens.  And, if Wabash wouldn't forfeit.

[ADL70]

Goes against the "innocent until proven guilty" ethic.

For an OOC game which conference can reverse, say if next game is OOC too?

Addendum:

I have learned that CWRU was contacted by the NWC Supervisor of Officials to see if CWRU wanted to have the disqualification of a Spartan player during the second half of their game at Puget Sound reviewed.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Lastly, it's easy to slam the teams at the bottom of each conference but seriously, how gross are teams like Anderson and Manchester?  To give you an idea, since we love to look at common opponents, look at what Hanover is doing to those teams.

Bottom of the NCAC is no different. Kenyon has won four NCAC games this year and lost an OOC game to Earlham, who is 1-4 in the HCAC and likely to lose their last three.  Only a few conferences have bottom-echelon teams who are legitimately competitive with good teams.

[Li'l Giant]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B65mtE2TN1w

[sigma one]

BB#16:  What the heck.  I didn't forget anything.  Why the hostility--because I said something good about Franklin and didn't say that the Wabash receivers are the equal of the all-conference and All-American receivers of the past?   Jeez.  Sometimes I feel like if someone tries to be objective about other teams and about Wabash, some Wabash guys get their shorts in a twist.  I am not going anywhere.   And this, BB:  I really do like Franklin this year.  That does not mean I don't like Wabash.  You should know better.   
     Let's just leave it before we both say something we will regret.   So far, neither of us regrets anything.  Let's just leave it.   

[GrizFan]

Any chance of Franklin moving up to NCAA D1 (maybe D2) due to their current 31 game winning streak in the HCAC? 

Been there, done that!  Franklin was a NAIA then NCAA Div II power in the '70s and '80s before dropping down to D3.  We won old Heartland Collegiate Conference titles over Butler, Indiana Central (UIndy), Valpo, Evansville, St. Joe, and Ashland.  We beat #1 ranked Carson-Newman, Ferris State, Saginaw Valley State, and Grand Valley State on occasion.  It all fell apart when we dropped to D3.  But after 20 years, Coach Leonard has the Grizzlies on the rise!  No disrespect to Wabash, they are always strong and they ALWAYS FIGHT!

[ExTartanPlayer]

Sometimes I feel like if someone tries to be objective about other teams and about Wabash, some Wabash guys get their shorts in a twist.

In their defense, this is true of many teams' fans, but I agree sigma. Praising another team should not be taboo.  This conversation about Franklin originated because someone objected to them being ranked in their current position with two losses. Objective data was presented that suggested those two losses are not just any old two losses and that the team should be ranked according to what all games - wins and losses - tell us about how good a team is, not merely their record.

I object to the attitude (not unique to this thread, have encountered it elsewhere) where presenting data about how good another team is leads to a post of the above ilk "Well geez, since they're so good, I guess we might as well just forfeit" because it takes what was a cogent, thoughtful discussion of the relative strength of each team and flushes it down the pipe. Sarcasm and wit are fun and encouraged, but I see no need to sabotage a useful discussion.

[GRIZ_BACKER]

Sometimes I feel like if someone tries to be objective about other teams and about Wabash, some Wabash guys get their shorts in a twist.

In their defense, this is true of many teams' fans, but I agree sigma. Praising another team should not be taboo.  This conversation about Franklin originated because someone objected to them being ranked in their current position with two losses. Objective data was presented that suggested those two losses are not just any old two losses and that the team should be ranked according to what all games - wins and losses - tell us about how good a team is, not merely their record.

I object to the attitude (not unique to this thread, have encountered it elsewhere) where presenting data about how good another team is leads to a post of the above ilk "Well geez, since they're so good, I guess we might as well just forfeit" because it takes what was a cogent, thoughtful discussion of the relative strength of each team and flushes it down the pipe. Sarcasm and wit are fun and encouraged, but I see no need to sabotage a useful discussion.

well said +k

[Bishopleftiesdad]

Sometimes I feel like if someone tries to be objective about other teams and about Wabash, some Wabash guys get their shorts in a twist.

In their defense, this is true of many teams' fans, but I agree sigma. Praising another team should not be taboo.  This conversation about Franklin originated because someone objected to them being ranked in their current position with two losses. Objective data was presented that suggested those two losses are not just any old two losses and that the team should be ranked according to what all games - wins and losses - tell us about how good a team is, not merely their record.

I object to the attitude (not unique to this thread, have encountered it elsewhere) where presenting data about how good another team is leads to a post of the above ilk "Well geez, since they're so good, I guess we might as well just forfeit" because it takes what was a cogent, thoughtful discussion of the relative strength of each team and flushes it down the pipe. Sarcasm and wit are fun and encouraged, but I see no need to sabotage a useful discussion.

well said +k

+1 from me as well.