FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[GRIZ_BACKER]

I wonder what the over/under is on the last post complaining about the selection process?  Thanksgiving Day? 

Ummm... Some here are still discussing 1983.

Had to post it. Couldn't resist. 

[Joe Wally]

Given that the selection itself took place less than 72 hours ago, and the comments from Commissioner Naatz took place even more recently than that, I suspect that there is still quite a bit of life left in this conversation.

Anyone expecting a group of Wabash men to give up on a good argument doesn't know us very well.  The corollary to "Wabash Always Fights!" is, after all "Wabash Always Argues!"

I suspect that the conversation will die down once the games start on Saturday.

[jknezek]

I wonder what the over/under is on the last post complaining about the selection process?  Thanksgiving Day? 

Ummm... Some here are still discussing 1983.

+K. Maybe it's part of Wabash Always Fights? I mean, always could imply 1983, 2010, and 2013 will never end? Couldn't resist.

[Schwami]

Has anyone heard from Wally recently?  Is he still out on the ledge? 

[GRIZ_BACKER]

I wonder what the over/under is on the last post complaining about the selection process?  Thanksgiving Day? 

Ummm... Some here are still discussing 1983.

+K. Maybe it's part of Wabash Always Fights? I mean, always could imply 1983, 2010, and 2013 will never end? Couldn't resist.

Always fun to needle our friends in west central Indiana. 

[Joe Wally]

I wonder what the over/under is on the last post complaining about the selection process?  Thanksgiving Day? 

Ummm... Some here are still discussing 1983.

+K. Maybe it's part of Wabash Always Fights? I mean, always could imply 1983, 2010, and 2013 will never end? Couldn't resist.

Always fun to needle our friends in west central Indiana.

A pox on your south central home.

[GRIZ_BACKER]

I wonder what the over/under is on the last post complaining about the selection process?  Thanksgiving Day? 

Ummm... Some here are still discussing 1983.

+K. Maybe it's part of Wabash Always Fights? I mean, always could imply 1983, 2010, and 2013 will never end? Couldn't resist.

Always fun to needle our friends in west central Indiana.

A pox on your south central home.

I think we already got some bad JUJU.  It hit over in Bluffton, OH two weeks ago. Somebody has a corn husk doll of Coach Leonard and some pins.

[BashDad]

I think it's about time to close up shop on this conversation. Wabash had one heck of a season. The program has now been elevated to the point that 9-1 an a Monon Bell isn't a dream season anymore. Of course I feel Wabash should have made the tournament. We all realize that there are flaws to the selection committee (not trying to start anything). However, our complaining on here is not going to suddenly have the Ncaa drop Sjf and put the wallies back in the tournament. Call your congressman, sign a petition, or Write a letter to te chairman if you feel so inclined as to inform him of your disapproval. But continuously complaining on here is going to do nothing, but divert attention away from one of Wabash's best teams in its history. The seniors went 37-6 with 4 bells. The team is extremely young. Needing replacements only for two linemen, special teams, a wide receiver, and linebacker (big hole there) the team has a chance to be brilliant next year. Lets talk about the season the team had this year or will nave next.

One thing I have noticed that was not touched on. Kyle Najar, former Db and DBs coach for the Little Giants, left his position on Sunday to begin his training to pursue a career as a navy seal. I just wanted to recognize him and give everyone a little perspective.

If this stuff hadn't been discussed here, it wouldn't have been discussed at all. And why shouldn't it be? The NCAA is a capricious black box at all levels, and just because this site has a higher proportion of school officials and the like than, say, the visitors to ESPN.com, shouldn't mean that the NCAA is excused from having to explain itself--not that they ever do. They make statements. Statements like, "Now let's get back to discussing the field! Nothing to see here!". Meh. There's been some complaining and whingeing, but mostly there's been excellent reportage and commentary. And it's on a message board instead of the front page. That's cool. When/If something like this happens at a higher level, there will be hell to pay.

[Wfaf1234]

I think it's about time to close up shop on this conversation. Wabash had one heck of a season. The program has now been elevated to the point that 9-1 an a Monon Bell isn't a dream season anymore. Of course I feel Wabash should have made the tournament. We all realize that there are flaws to the selection committee (not trying to start anything). However, our complaining on here is not going to suddenly have the Ncaa drop Sjf and put the wallies back in the tournament. Call your congressman, sign a petition, or Write a letter to te chairman if you feel so inclined as to inform him of your disapproval. But continuously complaining on here is going to do nothing, but divert attention away from one of Wabash's best teams in its history. The seniors went 37-6 with 4 bells. The team is extremely young. Needing replacements only for two linemen, special teams, a wide receiver, and linebacker (big hole there) the team has a chance to be brilliant next year. Lets talk about the season the team had this year or will nave next.

One thing I have noticed that was not touched on. Kyle Najar, former Db and DBs coach for the Little Giants, left his position on Sunday to begin his training to pursue a career as a navy seal. I just wanted to recognize him and give everyone a little perspective.

If this stuff hadn't been discussed here, it wouldn't have been discussed at all. And why shouldn't it be? The NCAA is a capricious black box at all levels, and just because this site has a higher proportion of school officials and the like than, say, the visitors to ESPN.com, shouldn't mean that the NCAA is excused from having to explain itself--not that they ever do. They make statements. Statements like, "Now let's get back to discussing the field! Nothing to see here!". Meh. There's been some complaining and whingeing, but mostly there's been excellent reportage and commentary. And it's on a message board instead of the front page. That's cool. When/If something like this happens at a higher level, there will be hell to pay.

I apologize, I wasn't trying to minimize your argument. All I was trying to say was stop spending the time talking back and forth with other Wabash men. Wabash taught you to take the bull by the horns on these issues, so I actually meant contact the Chairman and try to get him to explain himself. I know that won't happen. Wabash got screwed by the selection committee, just like it does almost every week with NCAC officials. But us complaining on here is not going to change anything. Find a way to change this monstrosity. Nothing will really happen on here though. SO let's talk about the team that we are all passionate about and get on with out lives.

Also, again if no one picked upon it....Kudos to Najar.

[BashDad]

Now I do think it's possible this was an off-the-cuff remark that is being interpreted far too literally; as Keith said on another thread related to this discussion, we are putting a single comment from a 30-minute conversation with a tired guy who may or may not be a particularly polished public speaker under a very, very fine microscope, and I think he may have just made somewhat of a loose remark that reflected his observation of how the process unfolded rather than meaning that they actually discussed how many teams from each region got in. 

See, this just doesn't make sense to me. God bless Keith and Frank--seriously--but what does it matter that he's not a polished speaker or that he made a "loose remark...about how the process unfolded"? As if that's some sort of defense for the process? You want him to be more sophisticated at rhetorical legerdemain and subterfuge? Like: "c'mon guys, if he'd known better he would've just not engaged with HOW THINGS ACTUALLY WORK." Weird.

I apologize, I wasn't trying to minimize your argument. All I was trying to say was stop spending the time talking back and forth with other Wabash men. Wabash taught you to take the bull by the horns on these issues, so I actually meant contact the Chairman and try to get him to explain himself. I know that won't happen. Wabash got screwed by the selection committee, just like it does almost every week with NCAC officials. But us complaining on here is not going to change anything. Find a way to change this monstrosity. Nothing will really happen on here though. SO let's talk about the team that we are all passionate about and get on with out lives.

I just don't see this as an exercise in complaining so much as journalism.

[Wfaf1234]

Now I do think it's possible this was an off-the-cuff remark that is being interpreted far too literally; as Keith said on another thread related to this discussion, we are putting a single comment from a 30-minute conversation with a tired guy who may or may not be a particularly polished public speaker under a very, very fine microscope, and I think he may have just made somewhat of a loose remark that reflected his observation of how the process unfolded rather than meaning that they actually discussed how many teams from each region got in. 

See, this just doesn't make sense to me. God bless Keith and Frank--seriously--but what does it matter that he's not a polished speaker or that he made a "loose remark...about how the process unfolded"? As if that's some sort of defense for the process? You want him to be more sophisticated at rhetorical legerdemain and subterfuge? Like: "c'mon guys, if he'd known better he would've just not engaged with HOW THINGS ACTUALLY WORK." Weird.

I apologize, I wasn't trying to minimize your argument. All I was trying to say was stop spending the time talking back and forth with other Wabash men. Wabash taught you to take the bull by the horns on these issues, so I actually meant contact the Chairman and try to get him to explain himself. I know that won't happen. Wabash got screwed by the selection committee, just like it does almost every week with NCAC officials. But us complaining on here is not going to change anything. Find a way to change this monstrosity. Nothing will really happen on here though. SO let's talk about the team that we are all passionate about and get on with out lives.

I just don't see this as an exercise in complaining so much as journalism.

Fair enough. I'll back off.

[smedindy]

If SOS counts for so much how does Mount Union get a top seed? If I was any more wet behind the ears I would drown so this is a serious question lol

Wins and results against RRO also count heavily, as well as "last year's playoff results for undefeated teams with otherwise equal criteria".

[Frank Rossi]

See, this just doesn't make sense to me. God bless Keith and Frank--seriously--but what does it matter that he's not a polished speaker or that he made a "loose remark...about how the process unfolded"? As if that's some sort of defense for the process? You want him to be more sophisticated at rhetorical legerdemain and subterfuge? Like: "c'mon guys, if he'd known better he would've just not engaged with HOW THINGS ACTUALLY WORK." Weird.

But what folks aren't seeing is this: when he made the statement, it was one of two things that he was saying...

1) The Committee made a determination that they weren't going three deep in a region; or

2) Based on what he saw and what the reality is when there are only five Pool C slots, there is no realistic way he could see a team that's three deep get in if there is a strong team still standing one deep in another region.

There's a simple mathematical scenario here: if any region gets two bids in a 5 bid Pool C year, then it guarantees that the top team in at least one region will still be there in Round 5.  There are some committee members that likely placed SJF above the second deep North team in Round 4, but that wasn't enough to give SJF the slot.  So, why would you assume the next team down would receive any more support than the previous team if the RAC did their job correctly?  The third team is inferior to the second team based on criteria.  Thus, SJF could do no worse than it did in Round 4.  The notion that the Committee didn't give Wabash a fair shake is preposterous when you look at the aggregate of the process.  And that was his point, as confirmed in essence by JP Williams -- the likelihood that a three deep team will be able to garner enough support when they are inferior to the two deep team in the same region is not realistic since SJF already sat there with some level of support in Rounds 3 and 4.  The idea that somehow a new entrant would knock SJF down a notch is foolish -- that's not how it would work in any relative voting system.  So, yes, Wabash WAS considered.  However, the expectation on how high Wabash, or any other three deep team would perform, in that final round has to be realistically low unless the RAC messed up -- which the NCAA allows to be corrected by the RAC if requested by the Committee since 2011.  Long story short, it's clear that it's not a Committee decision that a third team won't get in, but rather, common sense.  We've yet to see a year in which we would've predicted three teams from a region getting in within the first five picks -- that's not by design but by reality of how the teams generally stack up across the regions (and the limitation of depth the further down the list you go in each region).

[BashDad]

The notion that the Committee didn't give Wabash a fair shake is preposterous when you look at the aggregate of the process.  And that was his point, as confirmed in essence by JP Williams -- the likelihood that a three deep team will be able to garner enough support when they are inferior to the two deep team in the same region is not realistic since SJF already sat there with some level of support in Rounds 3 and 4.  The idea that somehow a new entrant would knock SJF down a notch is foolish -- that's not how it would work in any relative voting system. 

1.) I'm not trying to disagree simply to keep this going, but "a new entrant" wouldn't have to knock SJF down a notch. They'd just have to pick up all the votes that the "two deep team" got. Right?

2.) Can we please see the work that amounted to the "aggregate of the process"? Oh, we can't?

3.) Witt 38/Mount 35

[Li'l Giant]

3.) Witt 38/Mount 35

Wowza.