FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[jknezek]

Although I understand and respect your opinions on this, I am of the total opposite opinion of both of you regarding the cross-level games. There are legit reasons for this and if the respective level teams want to schedule such games (they are well aware of all the potential risks), IMO, they should be allowed to do so.

What legit reasons from the P5 side?  Aren't there enough Indiana and Wake Forest type teams to take mid season easy games? Or at least enough FBS pasties to not need to drop to FCS schools?

[ExTartanPlayer]

As exciting as it is for us Division III fans to see our teams compete against higher level schools, and as exciting as it was to see Appalachian State stun Michigan a few years ago, I'm also of the mind that cross-divisional games don't make much sense.  As jknezek said, I'd prefer to see schools playing only teams that play by the same set of rules facing one another.

(Tangent: I've also always thought, if I were a coach, I'd rather play a 4-8 team from the Sun Belt or WAC rather than a playoff-caliber FCS team; one might have slightly more talent and depth with 85 scholarship players instead of 63, but that seems outweighed by the experience of "winning" that the FCS playoff team has)

Ironically enough, I think cross-divisional games make more sense at the lower divisions, and have no problem with Division III schools filling out their schedule with NAIA, Division II, or even FCS startup programs (who always play a bit of a hodgepodge schedule in Year 1).  My ire is really most with FBS schools playing FCS opponents.

[Li'l Giant]

Although I understand and respect your opinions on this, I am of the total opposite opinion of both of you regarding the cross-level games. There are legit reasons for this and if the respective level teams want to schedule such games (they are well aware of all the potential risks), IMO, they should be allowed to do so.

What legit reasons from the P5 side?  Aren't there enough Indiana and Wake Forest type teams to take mid season easy games? Or at least enough FBS pasties to not need to drop to FCS schools?

Exactly. IU, Kansas, Wake Forest, Colorado, Kentucky. Teams from P5 conferences that stink and would put up just as feeble of an effort as would New Mexico, Temple, Southern Miss, FIU, or Miami of Ohio.

[D3MAFAN]

Although I understand and respect your opinions on this, I am of the total opposite opinion of both of you regarding the cross-level games. There are legit reasons for this and if the respective level teams want to schedule such games (they are well aware of all the potential risks), IMO, they should be allowed to do so.

What legit reasons from the P5 side?  Aren't there enough Indiana and Wake Forest type teams to take mid season easy games? Or at least enough FBS pasties to not need to drop to FCS schools?

Exactly. IU, Kansas, Wake Forest, Colorado, Kentucky. Teams from P5 conferences that stink and would put up just as feeble of an effort as would New Mexico, Temple, Southern Miss, FIU, or Miami of Ohio.

I think you have to look at the basketball side of things regarding those bottom feeders of the FBS football, those schools are pretty decent when it comes to Basketball.

[jknezek]

I think you have to look at the basketball side of things regarding those bottom feeders of the FBS football, those schools are pretty decent when it comes to Basketball.

Sure, but that has nothing to do with the conversation. The conversation was about why a P5 football school feels the need to play an FCS school or even a non-P5 school now that the rules are different. There are plenty of patsies within the P5 if you need a mid-season break. Every conference has a few weak teams. Even in the SEC West, which has been loaded for a few years, you still get both Mississippi's, who might be slightly better than they've been but aren't scaring anyone. Plus you get Arkansas, who has been a mess. So is it really a never ending top 50 team grind? Of course not. Auburn is kind of shafted getting both GA and SC this year, but Alabama doesn't need to play Western Carolina to rest guys. Does a schedule of Old Miss, Miss St., Arkansas and TN really look that formidable? There are plenty of chances against lesser teams that play under the same scholarship rules without beating up on someone who doesn't.

Alabama will be double-digit plus favorites for all but 2 or maybe 3 games this year. Was it really necessary to take breathers against Southern Miss, FAU, and especially FCS Western Carolina? One absolute patsy for each expected challenge is ridiculous.

[Pat Coleman]

I recently was made aware of this book that was written by Bill Hauser, who played QB for Wittenberg in their national title era. I've only read the two excerpts but I felt everyone should be made aware of it:
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2014/08/seasons-in-the-sun

[formerd3db]

There legit reasons are simple, and you guys make my point:

First, indeed, there are pasties in all of the P5 leagues, so what difference does it make for one more such as an FCS school-the answer is it doesn't really make any difference.  The selectors for rating of who gets into the playoffs (and there will eventually be an expanded DI playoff sometime in future years) are going to count those league pasties in the over all equation.  It doesn't matter that the top team(s) in those leagues then beat Kentucky, Kansas, etc., so one additional FCS type team will be no different.  It all equals out eventually.  Again, it will make a difference probably with the first few years of this limited 4 team playoff, however, again, I believe that those playoffs will eventually be expanded, just like the other divisions were over the years.   

Moreover, another legit reason...as you well know, there are always some FCS teams who occasionally beat the FBS schools (we all know the examples, including North Dakota State last year).  I will always remember a few years ago former Purdue Head Coach Joe Tiller whining because his Purdue team lost to Toledo one year and he then made the comment they shouldn't be playing such schools.  HE was the one who scheduled them and I don't buy his argument at all.  If his team (i.e. any FBS teams) was supposed to be so much better (and, of course, they are more than the majority of the time), then they should have no worries about beating such teams. 

You all have legit points about reasons why the levels were made for "like" schools to have fair and balanced competition, depending on how they choose to run their athletic programs (i.e. scholarship or not).  On the other hand, I see no reason why schools who want to play an occasional game against an upper level team.  They know full well the risks (risk in all categories), yet when doing so, playing against some higher competition helps a team get better (a DIII playing a DII or an FCS).  Without question, college football has changed much in the past 3 decades, but that basic premise still holds in many situations.

In addition, another legit reason is it is a thrill for the players to have at least one experience in playing against bigger programs, a bigger crowd, bigger stadium, etc. for once.   And finally, as to the DIII playoffs to use that example in regards to playing another level school, IMO, it still doesn't matter-you play a DII or FCS school, which doesn't count in your SOS or ratings, but so what? The bottom line is...just simply win your league and you get your playoff spot. 

I know I'm in the minority here.  Nonetheless, if I were a head coach, I'd still do it that way.  Yet, we all know there will only be a handful of DI coaches who will continue to schedule an occasional game like that; most of them will not...when the big conference separation from the NCAA occurs, if it does.  But that is fine.

Good debate, gentlemen.    

[formerd3db]

Pat:

Thanks for the link to the book.  I wasn't aware of the book.  It sounds like an excellent read and a good addition to my/anyone's college football library.

[bashbrother]

Ok,  I am officially ready for the 2014 Football Season to begin.   These next couple of weeks are going to be rough.

Interesting questions I have heading into the season:

1.  Little Giants are stacked at a few positions...  (QB etc.)  -   Who will emerge and take charge.   I am not the biggest fan of the QB rotation and with such a tough 1st game against a very good opponent.... we need to be ready.

2.  Witt -  Lost a ton,  the program is getting quite a bit of respect nationally on their programs recent strength....  how good will they be early?   9/06 - Butler and 9/20 - Depauw should tell us some things.  I do expect them to be pretty tough by 11/08 when Wabash travels to Springfield.

3.  Woo -  While I am a Barnes fan,  I still worry big time about his durability.... Great athlete... takes way too many hits.

4.  Depauw.....  Monon Misery Continues..... but do they get any closer this year?   Wabash has not won 6 straight over Depauw since the '49 - '55 stretch.  (Scoring 185 - 47 during current 5- game streak)

[ohiofan1954]

just as a casual fan with no ties to either Wabash or Wittenberg I can't wait for the 11/8 game. That just might wind up being the best football game played this year in the state of Ohio.

[ohiofan1954]

Although I understand and respect your opinions on this, I am of the total opposite opinion of both of you regarding the cross-level games. There are legit reasons for this and if the respective level teams want to schedule such games (they are well aware of all the potential risks), IMO, they should be allowed to do so.

What legit reasons from the P5 side?  Aren't there enough Indiana and Wake Forest type teams to take mid season easy games? Or at least enough FBS pasties to not need to drop to FCS schools?

Exactly. IU, Kansas, Wake Forest, Colorado, Kentucky. Teams from P5 conferences that stink and would put up just as feeble of an effort as would New Mexico, Temple, Southern Miss, FIU, or Miami of Ohio.

well I hope you are right about Kentucky. Sure would love a great win on 9/6 when I visit Lexington. As for some of the non/aq's, you haven't seen bad until you watched eastern Michigan and Miami last year.

[firstdown]

The Wabash team has reported for camp and there was a nip of fall in the air when I went out to get the newspaper this morning.  It time for some talk about football.  Bashbro you described the situation of 3 good quarterbacks in camp from last year (plus at least one very good freshman)  what are your thoughts on how the QB position will play out?  Does Putko begin where he left off in the Bell Game? 

[nike]

Richard Barnes only has one year left.  He will be fine.
The Scots will be in the mix at the end.  They have very good incoming freshmen and leadership.

[bashbrother]

Bashbro you described the situation of 3 good quarterbacks in camp from last year (plus at least one very good freshman)  what are your thoughts on how the QB position will play out?  Does Putko begin where he left off in the Bell Game?

I believe it all comes down to who prepared and matured the most in the off season.   There was a group of 3 for most of last year that were close....  There is a bunch of talent... it will come down to who wanted it enough to prepare and work harder in the off season.   I don't believe it is Putko's by default.   We shall see...

WAF!

[bashbrother]

So I post and the board goes silent...

It's football season folks.