FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[02 Warhawk]

Yes, that wayward bunch of undisciplined yahoos crushed a previously undefeated team 41-13 in round 3 of the playoffs. Wow, they're just a bunch of hooligans that just show up on Saturday without a game plan or a purpose.

I mean, is it just because they commit a lot of penalties? You want them to be Buena Vista, who committed just 29 penalties all year to go 5-5? Hey, we lost 63-3 but only committed two penalties. Wheeeee!

And as you know, this season was really weird for Wesley with all of those games against non D-3 rummies because they didn't have a conference and it's really hard to be an independent when teams are all fraidy-cat around you. I can see them getting sloppy after putting 60 on the board against an online school.

The most number of penalties they had this year was against Rowan. Most were holding on the offense. Sometimes refs really look for that. BTW, they beat a fine Rowan team 37-7 despite those holds (and a couple of PIs, which happen, too...)

I don't know about you, but I don't think penalties or discipline was the issue against Mt. Union.

I think the Wesley coaches panicked that day against Mount Union.  They were averaging 5 yards/carry early and then completely abandoned it when Mount scored the first of their 10 TDs.  I don't think they knew how to reign in their kids after it was clear they had abandoned their game plan.  Shortly after that, they quit.

I think alot of Mount Union/Whitewater/MHB's edge over Wesley is coaching.

SaintsFAN, that's exactly what I was getting at.

The whole "committing a lot of penalties" thing was a very small part of why I don't want a Wesley coach being considered for the UWW job.

Also, for being a top 5 team, and a legit national contender each year, they sure do tank against other contenders. Since Wesley started making the playoffs regularly in 2005 they have been eliminated by just three teams over those 10 years: Mount Union, MHB and UWW. Here's a breakdown of their average playoff loss to those teams:

UMU: 19 points (four games)
MHB: 20.3 points (three games)
UWW: 36.3 points (three games)

I understand that losing to these three teams by that margin is nothing new to many DIII football programs. But Wesley is considered (by most) a top tier program, and should put in a better effort than that I would think. No offense to Hobart, but they are not on the same tier as these four teams. Also, among those 10 elimination games, only two games have been within one score (vs. Mount in '13: 62-59, and vs. Mount in '11: 28-21). The other 8 games have all been double-digit losses.

I really think they have the talent to get them over the hump, but I don't think the coaching staff motivates them enough to do so. I remember one play in particular against Mount this past season. Wesley's QB throws a pick, and the intended Wesley WR just throws his arms up in frustration, rather than trying to run the DB down to make a tackle. That's what I was referring to in "discipline" and "attention to detail". Play to the whistle rather than throwing a fit. I know that's just one example, but it was fresh in my memory and it bothered me when I saw it.

[wally_wabash]

Wesley is going to be an interesting case to follow over the next few years.  In recent years they've lorded over Pool B with a gargantuan SOS and a couple of curiosity games against Charlotte...but they've only played a portion of their games against Division III, and those games are all non-league games for their opponents which puts a different spin on it for some teams.  They've also been picked off by a few NJAC teams over this span.  Wesley is really, really good.  But I think we've overvalued them a touch (I'm just as guilty as the rest...I think I picked them to win the tournament this year...whoops).  I think they'll be a favorite to win the NJAC most years, but I don't see them as the kind of overwhelming favorite that I would Mount Union in the OAC or Franklin in the HCAC.  Wesley will win their fair share of conference championships, but I don't think they'll win every year.  There's a time coming soon when Wesley misses a tournament or two because they get beat by Morrisville State or some such thing. 

[Pat Coleman]

Wesley is going to be an interesting case to follow over the next few years.  In recent years they've lorded over Pool B with a gargantuan SOS and a couple of curiosity games against Charlotte...but they've only played a portion of their games against Division III, and those games are all non-league games for their opponents which puts a different spin on it for some teams.  They've also been picked off by a few NJAC teams over this span.  Wesley is really, really good.  But I think we've overvalued them a touch (I'm just as guilty as the rest...I think I picked them to win the tournament this year...whoops).  I think they'll be a favorite to win the NJAC most years, but I don't see them as the kind of overwhelming favorite that I would Mount Union in the OAC or Franklin in the HCAC.  Wesley will win their fair share of conference championships, but I don't think they'll win every year.  There's a time coming soon when Wesley misses a tournament or two because they get beat by Morrisville State or some such thing.

Won't be Morrisville State because they'll be in the Empire 8. But I think Wesley will run through the NJAC at least in 2015. Imagine how much more energy Wesley will have when it's not flying to play in front of 200 people at Menlo or at a barely existing athletics program like Virginia-Lynchburg ... Everyone else will be playing catchup. Wesley-Salisbury has been a great rivalry throughout -- even for those few years they were in different conferences for football between the ACFC and NJAC, it's been a fierce rivalry and of course, they are conference opponents in their other sports.

[02 Warhawk]

Wesley is going to be an interesting case to follow over the next few years.  In recent years they've lorded over Pool B with a gargantuan SOS and a couple of curiosity games against Charlotte...but they've only played a portion of their games against Division III, and those games are all non-league games for their opponents which puts a different spin on it for some teams.  They've also been picked off by a few NJAC teams over this span.  Wesley is really, really good.  But I think we've overvalued them a touch (I'm just as guilty as the rest...I think I picked them to win the tournament this year...whoops).  I think they'll be a favorite to win the NJAC most years, but I don't see them as the kind of overwhelming favorite that I would Mount Union in the OAC or Franklin in the HCAC.  Wesley will win their fair share of conference championships, but I don't think they'll win every year.  There's a time coming soon when Wesley misses a tournament or two because they get beat by Morrisville State or some such thing.

Won't be Morrisville State because they'll be in the Empire 8. But I think Wesley will run through the NJAC at least in 2015. Im Emagine how much more energy Wesley will have when it's not flying to play in front of 200 people at Menlo or at a barely existing athletics program like Virginia-Lynchburg ...eryone else will be playing catchup. Wesley-Salisbury has been a great rivalry throughout -- even for those few years they were in different conferences for football between the ACFC and NJAC, it's been a fierce rivalry and of course, they are conference opponents in their other sports.

That's actually a good point I didn't consider. Maybe all the traveling catches up to them come late in the playoffs? Not sure if it's the sole reason though, but maybe it plays a small role.

[SaintsFAN]

I really think they have the talent to get them over the hump, but I don't think the coaching staff motivates them enough to do so. I remember one play in particular against Mount this past season. Wesley's QB throws a pick, and the intended Wesley WR just throws his arms up in frustration, rather than trying to run the DB down to make a tackle. That's what I was referring to in "discipline" and "attention to detail". Play to the whistle rather than throwing a fit. I know that's just one example, but it was fresh in my memory and it bothered me when I saw it.

I think we're thinking of the same play.  I think it was a pick 6 on that one.  I saw that, too.

[bashbrother]

I for one am ready for the process to be over and a coach named at UWW...   Either ER is going or he is not.

Even though recruiting timing is not as critical at the DIII level as I believe it is at the D1 level,   I still don't think any program is helped by being in limbo.

Looking back,  Chris Creighton announced he was leaving on Dec. 22nd. and ER was announced as the new Wabash coach in late January or Early February.    I hope the Wabash administration is making a contingency list or sketching the process in case ER is offered the UWW job.   I don't like the idea of rolling into March without a head coach leading the program/final recruiting push.

[BayernFan]

Time for all Little Giants to get out our checkbooks.  I heard he makes $350k at Wabash.  If he leaves, all the best to him and his family.  I trust the poohbahs at Wabash have enjoyed the last 15 years of being a national football power, and will make the hires necessary to continue that.  Then we Wabash fans will have TWO coaches to watch as they move up the coaching ranks!

[Li'l Giant]

I for one am ready for the process to be over and a coach named at UWW...   Either ER is going or he is not.

Even though recruiting timing is not as critical at the DIII level as I believe it is at the D1 level,   I still don't think any program is helped by being in limbo.

Looking back,  Chris Creighton announced he was leaving on Dec. 22nd. and ER was announced as the new Wabash coach in late January or Early February.    I hope the Wabash administration is making a contingency list or sketching the process in case ER is offered the UWW job.   I don't like the idea of rolling into March without a head coach leading the program/final recruiting push.

According to their schedule UWW's last interview (with ER) is a week from tomorrow. It's reasonable to expect the announcement the week after (though maybe it's the end of next week). Either way it's the beginning of February when Wabash would know for sure they have an opening to fill and act on potential targets even if Haklin has a "short list" ready to go.

I would be hard pressed to imagine that Wabash would have a coach hired and announced before Spring Break, which is the week of March 9. My guess would be it would be one of those last 2 weeks (Week of 16th or 23rd). 

And regardless of what it may do to this particular recruiting cycle I would prefer they take their time and make a good hire thinking long term (7 years or so, since that seems to be our upper bound) rather than getting someone in place right away.

Just one man's opinion.

[sigma one]

Several thoughts.  Despite what seems to be the prevailing opinion or prediction on this Board, I don't consider it in any sense a done deal for ER at Whitewater.  But if he is offered the job, I believe he will go. 
     Second, keep your checkbooks in your pocket; that's likely not the way Wabash will operate by trying to entice him to stay--dangling more money or resources.  That's not the way they've typically operated.  To be fair, with a new president anything is possible, but that has not been the pattern in the past. 
     Third,  Wabash always has a contingency plan in situations like this one. 
     Lastly, following Creighton's sudden departure, Wabash moved as quickly as it could given the reality that there was no strong internal candidate, particularly when Neathery, who might have been considered, decided to leave as well.  There are several ways the College might proceed, and Haklin and the powers that be will be ready to go when, and if, the time comes.
     

[BashBacker#16]

Obviously I hope ER stays put.  A couple of things:

- there is no way in the world he makes $350k!  Are you being serious?  WTH
- someone asked if Hammer would go or stay...  I would think BJ would be a leading candidate for the job if Coach leaves.  Now if he is passed up for the job, who knows.
- the UW-W guys seem super underwhelmed with ER's record and proven success.  That is crazy to me considering the challenges he has at Wabash - especially compared to what he would have at Whitewater.  Consider:  he's kicked ass at a school that is all-male, has tough academic requirements, and is very expensive. 

[bashbrother]

Consider:  he's kicked ass at a school that is all-male, has tough academic requirements, and is very expensive.

All great points BB16!   Easy to take all of that for granted.  This is why I think ER will get offered the job..   The things ER does not have that the UWW assistant in the running does have are: in-depth knowledge of their system,  their players,  their administration.

We shall see.

[bleedpurple]

Obviously I hope ER stays put.  A couple of things:

- there is no way in the world he makes $350k!  Are you being serious?  WTH
- someone asked if Hammer would go or stay...  I would think BJ would be a leading candidate for the job if Coach leaves.  Now if he is passed up for the job, who knows.
- the UW-W guys seem super underwhelmed with ER's record and proven success.  That is crazy to me considering the challenges he has at Wabash - especially compared to what he would have at Whitewater.  Consider:  he's kicked ass at a school that is all-male, has tough academic requirements, and is very expensive.

I can't speak for other UW-W posters, but I think ER's record speaks for itself. He's obviously done a great job at Wabash. I have no doubt he would be a great coach at UW-W. I think (not sure) some of the posts you have seen may have been in reaction to Bashdad's posts indicating he is the ONLY decent candidate on a bad list.  Regardless of posts you see on these boards, the people at Whitewater who matter in the decision making process are impressed with him or he wouldn't be a finalist. 

If Coach Raeburn gets the job, he will have the full support of Warhawk Nation.  If he doesn't get an offer, it will not be because UW-W doesn't respect what he has accomplished or think he is a great coach. I think everyone is biased towards "their guy". So I admit that I lean toward Kevin Bullis because I believe he is a great coach and a great person. I have no doubt Coach Raeburn is also. But he is more of an unknown to me, in spite of his great accomplishments at Wabash.  UW-W has had three head coaches since 1956. None of them had any college head coaching experience prior to taking the reigns at UW-W.  So not having done it does not equal not being able to do it. 

[sigma one]

I can't imagine any DIII football coach, or any DIII coach in any sport for that matter, making anything close to 350K.  Not even close.  Problem is that some folks want to equate what they see as salaries in even lower-level DI programs with what it's possible to make in DIII.  Where does that big number come from?

[Li'l Giant]

There are 7 FBS coaches that make between $225 and $400k. Coaches in that salary neighborhood are Larry Coker, Dennis Franchione, Chris Creighton, Terry Bowden, and Dino Babers.

I love ER but that salary that would be wildly above market value for a D3 coach. I simply don't buy it.

Edited to add link to the salaries I referenced.

[wally_wabash]

The coach at North Dakota State makes $261k.  There are some that do more in FCS, but that's pretty much the high end for FCS.  Not a chance that any D-III coach makes anything close to even that, let alone $350k.  Football coaching salaries are exploding...in the divisions that involve 80,000 seat filled stadiums and giant tv contracts.  That sort of money just doesn't exist in the athletic budgets for D-IIIs. 

We know that Leipold was making $100,000 per year at Whitewater.  That's public info.  That's going to be the absolute high end of what D-III coaches can earn.  Without multiple national championships, you couldn't even dream of negotiating for more.  Leipold ruined that for everybody who doesn't win 100 times in 106 games.