FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Joe Wally]

Wait.  What just happened here?  Did BP just confuse me with Gilda Radner?

[formerd3db]

Tantrum Cousins.

Hilarious, BD! A great short video segment.  Perhaps you are even related to the late Wayne Woodrow Hayes?   Just kidding.  +k to you for some great levity (BTW, JM certainly has some of the same antics as the late Bo, but then again, that is not surprising)!.  Anyway, please forgive the tardy reply to this recent segment.

[formerd3db]

BD -

Looking at your profile, is this a distant relative?

Jim? No, but I'd love to have a beer with him! 

For the record, any inference that I was somehow "ranting" is misguided. No one attacked the process that I saw. I was just letting you know it was legit.

Have a great off-season. I hope we play against you again next year. 

Do you sometimes go by BD? Joe Wally wasn't talking to you.

Actually, I don't!  Why would he call me that? 

Sorry...never mind...(in best Emily Latella Voice)

I'm pretty sure you have all the younger posters scratching their heads at this one Bleed.
+1 from me, though, for a fun reminder. 

Indeed. +k to both of you (and Pat too!)  I've been in the same situation a few times as well, so like has kindly been afforded me, I/we give you (BP) some slack on this as well!!!

[SaintsFAN]

Sometimes by promoting from within teams miss the better coach. I see it in baseball all the time - "keep it in the family" and then depression sets in.

Larry Coker?

[SaintsFAN]

Kehres at Mount Union?   While still wildly supported by Mount Fans, players. etc.  They have been on the short end of the National Championship game 5 of the last 6 years.  If this continues within the Mount program,  when does pressure begin to Mount?  or does it ever? Getting to the game is still an exceptional achievement.

Bottom Line...  The hire makes sense to me.

There's really no pressure until LK as AD loses his will to fight the Politics at UMU and resigns.  Who could fire his own son?  Of course, Vince Kehres needs to hurry up and win one (if thats even possible remains to be seen) so thats on his resume because the end for LK at UMU is within sight.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Sometimes by promoting from within teams miss the better coach. I see it in baseball all the time - "keep it in the family" and then depression sets in.

Larry Coker?

This fascinates me.  When a program promotes from within after an insane run of success, and then fails to sustain that level of success (but is still doing OK, at least notching winning seasons and bowl games)...was a slight drop-off damn near inevitable, a bit of regression to the mean?  Does it really mean the guy was/is a bad coach, or was the wrong choice?

Larry Coker (Miami): wins national title in first season, loses title game in second season, goes 11-2 in third season.  Admittedly, all of that accomplished with recruits brought in by the prior regime, but still, that's a decent start.  Program takes a downturn thereafter, going 9-3, 9-3, and 7-6.  Coker gets fired.  The team has not finished better than 9-4 in eight seasons since then.  Sure, you can make the argument that Coker's poor finish/recruiting and sanctions that came after have made it more difficult to return to prominence, but in hindsight it is hard to prove that Coker was significantly worse than other options on the table.  He went 60-15, for heaven's sake, and even eight years after his firing the team struggles to finish much better than his worst seasons at Miami.

FWIW, the other candidates for the Miami job in 2001 were Barry Alvarez and Dave Wannstedt.  Are we sure that either of them would have done significantly better than Coker, or kept the program in much better shape than it presently is?  It's certainly possible, but hardly a guarantee.

Frank Solich (Nebraska): promoted from within after Tom Osborne retired, Solich went 9-4, 12-1, 10-2, 11-2 (this was the year where Nebraska infamously played in the national title game after losing the Big 12 title game), 7-7, and 9-3 before being fired with a career record of 58-19.  He was fired two years after being in the national title game and, more or less, had an identical trajectory to Coker: a few really good seasons to start off, a slight dip in seasons #5 and 6, and whacked. 

Nebraska has basically stayed the same since firing him; no serious national title threats, just a bunch of 9-4 and 10-4 seasons that, frankly, I would surmise Solich could have maintained just fine.

Point is, some of the oft-cited examples of doing the wrong thing by turning it over to a strong internal candidate are hard to really prove were the wrong choice.

[Bombers798891]

The fact is, whoever is hired by UW-W or UMU is likely to be considered the "wrong" choice. Because the expectation of "Win the Stagg Bowl or Bust" is likely so firmly a part of the culture there, and simultaneously so hard to maintain, that a regression is almost impossible to prevent. And it's hard for a lot of people to handle that.

When Solich (and Pelini for that matter) were fired from Nebraska, wasn't the refrain "he won a lot of games, but he didn't win the right ones?" When you're UW-W and Mount, what are the right games? How can it be anything other than the Stagg Bowl? There's quite literally an entire generation of Mount Union fans who have never seen their team be anything other than one of the four best teams in the country. Whitewater's gone unbeaten in 5 of the last 6 seasons.

Maybe that mentality doesn't exist at UWW and Mount. But I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least a section of fans/decision-makers who would have a hard time accepting anything other than the status quo. In fact, I bet there are some Mount fans for whom the status quo (1-5 in last six Staggs, 5 straight losses to Whitewater) isn't sitting too well.

[bashbrother]

The fact is, whoever is hired by UW-W or UMU is likely to be considered the "wrong" choice. Because the expectation of "Win the Stagg Bowl or Bust" is likely so firmly a part of the culture there, and simultaneously so hard to maintain, that a regression is almost impossible to prevent. And it's hard for a lot of people to handle that.

This is specifically why there may have been a few quality coaches that decided not to apply for the position...  sounds strange, as in who wouldn't want to Coach at the best team in Div. III?   Answer,  maybe the coach that believed the chances of failing to meet such lofty expectations,  were too high.

[formerd3db]

Sometimes by promoting from within teams miss the better coach. I see it in baseball all the time - "keep it in the family" and then depression sets in.

Larry Coker?

This fascinates me.  When a program promotes from within after an insane run of success, and then fails to sustain that level of success (but is still doing OK, at least notching winning seasons and bowl games)...was a slight drop-off damn near inevitable, a bit of regression to the mean?  Does it really mean the guy was/is a bad coach, or was the wrong choice?

Larry Coker (Miami): wins national title in first season, loses title game in second season, goes 11-2 in third season.  Admittedly, all of that accomplished with recruits brought in by the prior regime, but still, that's a decent start.  Program takes a downturn thereafter, going 9-3, 9-3, and 7-6.  Coker gets fired.  The team has not finished better than 9-4 in eight seasons since then.  Sure, you can make the argument that Coker's poor finish/recruiting and sanctions that came after have made it more difficult to return to prominence, but in hindsight it is hard to prove that Coker was significantly worse than other options on the table.  He went 60-15, for heaven's sake, and even eight years after his firing the team struggles to finish much better than his worst seasons at Miami.

FWIW, the other candidates for the Miami job in 2001 were Barry Alvarez and Dave Wannstedt.  Are we sure that either of them would have done significantly better than Coker, or kept the program in much better shape than it presently is?  It's certainly possible, but hardly a guarantee.

Frank Solich (Nebraska): promoted from within after Tom Osborne retired, Solich went 9-4, 12-1, 10-2, 11-2 (this was the year where Nebraska infamously played in the national title game after losing the Big 12 title game), 7-7, and 9-3 before being fired with a career record of 58-19.  He was fired two years after being in the national title game and, more or less, had an identical trajectory to Coker: a few really good seasons to start off, a slight dip in seasons #5 and 6, and whacked. 

Nebraska has basically stayed the same since firing him; no serious national title threats, just a bunch of 9-4 and 10-4 seasons that, frankly, I would surmise Solich could have maintained just fine.

Point is, some of the oft-cited examples of doing the wrong thing by turning it over to a strong internal candidate are hard to really prove were the wrong choice.

You make some very legit and great points, of which I agree.  However, as you, I and everyone here knows, that is the mindset and culture of athletics today, especially football at DI and it has trickled down to even DIII at many places.  Plus, don't forget that part of the "behind the scenes" Solich issue was his EtoH encounter.  He has done quite well at Ohio, though.

[ohiofan1954]

Frank was a gift from God for all Ohio fans. If it hadn't been for the omvi though I am sure he would have left. Rumor has it he wanted the Minnesota job but with MADD good luck getting a good job now after drunk driving. Worked out well for us in Athens though. Frank will retire a Bobcat now. He is 70, not much chance of a man that old getting a big job anymore after what happened at Penn State. Kansas State is a exception but that was special circumstances. Frank will be missed when he retires.
GO BOBCATS

[formerd3db]

Frank was a gift from God for all Ohio fans. If it hadn't been for the omvi though I am sure he would have left. Rumor has it he wanted the Minnesota job but with MADD good luck getting a good job now after drunk driving. Worked out well for us in Athens though. Frank will retire a Bobcat now. He is 70, not much chance of a man that old getting a big job anymore after what happened at Penn State. Kansas State is a exception but that was special circumstances. Frank will be missed when he retires.
GO BOBCATS

Agree; he has done a good job at Ohio and that has been a big positive for the school, its alumni and the MAC.

[bashbrother]

The Way Too Early Look at 2015 NCAC Football 
"The More Things Change,  the More They Stay the Same"

Wabash College
2014 Record -  8-1 (Conf.)   10-2 (Overall)
Returning Starters  -   16   (9 - offense,  7 -  defense)

Key Returners:    Tyler McCullen (1st Team NCAC)
                             Mason Zurek (1st Team NCAC)
                             Ethan Buresh (1st Team NCAC)
                             Austin Brown (1st Team NCAC)
                             Wes Brown  (1st Team NCAC)
                             Coach Raeburn!

Key Losses:       Tyler Holmes  (1st Team NCAC)
                            Cody Buresh (DPOY NCAC)
                            AJ Akinribade (1st Team NCAC)
                            Denzel Wilkins (1st Team NCAC)
                            Evan Rutter  (HM NCAC)   EDIT:   May not be losing him. ? 

Wabash loses some tremendous student athletes to graduation, I mean tremendous.  But Little Giants fans have a lot to look forward to in 2015 with what is returning.

First things first,   Coach Erik Raeburn will be back at the helm to finish the job he started back in 2008.  This is big.

On Offense, we return 9.  (Or 8 depending on how you view the 2-headed monster backfield we deployed in 2014)  Among the returners are our 2nd leading rusher /All-NCAC RB (Mason Zurek  839 yards on 129 carries -   6.5 avg.) and our leading receiver,  Drake Christian  (73 catches for 973 yards).   But I personally am as equally excited about returning our entire offensive line from tackle to tackle.  As it stands right now, our offensive line will be made up of three seniors and two juniors.  Wes Brown (1st Team NCAC) headlines an offensive line that was a huge part of Wabash producing 2,766 rushing yards in 2015.   I believe if Wabash's offense can establish a more formidable downfield threat through the air,  Mason Zurek, behind this offensive line, could put up some massive individual numbers.    Our offense at times this year became a little one dimensional and the line of scrimmage became very crowded.     

Defensively, we lose some of the best to ever play at their respective positions at the school.    The great news is, we have seven (7) key starters returning and a significant amount of talent ready to step forward.    Tyler McCullen,  Austin Brown, Ethan Buresh , Conner Karns, Justin Woods, Eddie Cmehil. Delon Pettiford, and Connor Ludwig are all ready to start where they left off.    (The Swarm)

Finally,  to the Seniors who finished their careers  39-6....  Thank you!

NEXT UP - The Wittenberg Tigers.   (who return 8 on offense and 6 on defense.)

[sigma one]

Rumor has it that Evan Rutter will likely be back in the fall.  He has eligibility remaining.  So, that's one more asset returning, and probably Wabash's best interior defensive lineman last year--that is, if you think of McCullen as a defensive end, although he played inside some of the time.
     On the other side, recall that Woods had ACL surgery after the season.  Time will tell how good to go he will be. I expect he will be ready, but there is a bit of an unknown there.

[1837Tigers]

Congrats to former DePauw offensive coordinator Dustin Ward, named same at VMI - http://www.depauw.edu/news-media/latest-news/details/31486/

[jknezek]

Congrats to former DePauw offensive coordinator Dustin Ward, named same at VMI - http://www.depauw.edu/news-media/latest-news/details/31486/

The Keydets are a big coaching challenge for anyone to take on. Good luck with that. Tough conference, tough school to recruit at.