FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[BashDad]

http://d3football.com/top25/2013/week6

[Pat Coleman]

http://d3football.com/top25/2013/week6

Guessing you're equating Heidelberg 2013 to DePauw 2015 but I don't remember DePauw 2014 winning nine games and going to the playoffs.

[wally_wabash]

That's helpful. So, to be clear, "some people" in your original post is meant to refer to "some top 25 voters" and more specifically, to the treatment of JCU?

JCU is the most glaring example at the moment.  Wartburg is another.  But to this conversation specifically, if any OAC team had DePauw's record and profile right now, they'd be in the top 15.  I have zero doubt about that.  That's just the landscape at the moment.

I really don't think so -- based on the resume I laid out above, I can't see DePauw being in the Top 15 merely by being in the OAC. They weren't a quarterfinalist last year like your two "glaring example" teams above and they haven't beaten someone that would put them in the Top 15 on this year.

Unless you keep mistyping and mean "top 25" instead of top 15, I can't see your claim being realistic.

Maybe top 15 is extreme.  But I mean, JCU is still ranked.  If that's residual from being in last year's quarterfinal with players that aren't there anymore, then I think that's a bit erroneous.  We've seen enough here in 2015 to know that John Carroll is not awesome.  Last year's quarterfinal shouldn't have an effect in week 7 of this year. 

[Pat Coleman]

That's helpful. So, to be clear, "some people" in your original post is meant to refer to "some top 25 voters" and more specifically, to the treatment of JCU?

JCU is the most glaring example at the moment.  Wartburg is another.  But to this conversation specifically, if any OAC team had DePauw's record and profile right now, they'd be in the top 15.  I have zero doubt about that.  That's just the landscape at the moment.

I really don't think so -- based on the resume I laid out above, I can't see DePauw being in the Top 15 merely by being in the OAC. They weren't a quarterfinalist last year like your two "glaring example" teams above and they haven't beaten someone that would put them in the Top 15 on this year.

Unless you keep mistyping and mean "top 25" instead of top 15, I can't see your claim being realistic.

Maybe top 15 is extreme.  But I mean, JCU is still ranked.  If that's residual from being in last year's quarterfinal with players that aren't there anymore, then I think that's a bit erroneous.  We've seen enough here in 2015 to know that John Carroll is not awesome.  Last year's quarterfinal shouldn't have an effect in week 7 of this year.

Well, I agree (and I believe I even specifically said on this week's podcast that they are not on my ballot), but since I am not all 25 voters ...

[BashDad]

http://d3football.com/top25/2013/week6

Guessing you're equating Heidelberg 2013 to DePauw 2015 but I don't remember DePauw 2014 winning nine games and going to the playoffs.

I agree with the supposition that an undefeated OAC Team-X, at this point in the season, would almost definitely be ranked as high as 15.

I am tickled Scarlett red that Depauw can't get ranked at all.

[Wabash Hokie]

Below are the Wabash game notes for this weekend's game at Wooster.  Notes indicate that the LGs have two new starters on the OL due to injuries - Taylor and Sturdivant not in lineup.


http://sports.wabash.edu/documents/2015/10/21//ReleaseOctober212015.pdf?id=417

[HSCTiger fan]

I have posted elsewhere in defense of the D3 top 25, and for all the difficulties in comparing teams across different regions of the country with virtually no common opponents I think they do a pretty good job.  There are a couple individual rankings that I find particularly galling at the moment (Wartburg staying at #22 with Dubuque unranked, for my reasons detailed in the Top 25 fan poll thread, and to a lesser extent John Carroll still being ranked #18 with ONU unranked, although that's not as bad with the h2h result being much less decisive and ONU carrying an ugly loss to BW).  I think Illinois Wesleyan is actually a little under-ranked for now.  But overall I think the poll is pretty good.

In a reply to a post I made on the ODAC board you used HSC's getting beat very badly to 9th Wabash as an argument that HSC is not that great of a win for Washington and Lee. You then turn around in your very next paragraph and argue that Dubuque getting stomped by a combined score 76 to 16 by two teams ranked lower than Wabash somehow justified Wartburg's getting hammered by Dubuque and Wartburg's 22nd place in the poll. Now on the NCAC board you find it "particularly galling" that Wartburg is ranked at all?  Very confusing.

[bashbrother]

Below are the Wabash game notes for this weekend's game at Wooster.  Notes indicate that the LGs have two new starters on the OL due to injuries - Taylor and Sturdivant not in lineup.


http://sports.wabash.edu/documents/2015/10/21//ReleaseOctober212015.pdf?id=417

If you don't need them,   let them rest is my call.....  Sturdivant came off the field at one point in last weeks game,   Taylor has been nursing something as well......  I hope neither is seriously dinged,  we certainly can use them both at 100% come mid to late November.

WAF!

[Desertraider]

Regarding the polls and Depauw - I never really paid that much attention to the polls. Bottom line is win your conference (if it's an AQ) and your in the playoffs to prove your worth. It's not like the D3football.com poll is awarding the national championship trophy based on poll position. Having said that, if a 9-1 Depauw team doesn't get in (pool c) but say an 8-2 JCU does (and BTW they won't) then it may be an oversight (MAY be an oversight). I am not preaching the 'my conference is better than yours' or 'I don't worry about polls cause Mount always gets in' I just see them as more in season recognition of a teams season. Maybe that's wrong - but it is what it is.

By the way I do agree with you on the JCU issue. I am curious how they are currently ranked. JCU struggled against an unimpressive BW team (that lost to Bluffton), lost to an ONU team that lost to the unimpressive BW and eeked out a win against a Berg team that was pasted by Mount and is currently 2-4. JCU has 2 impressive wins: Marietta and Wilmington - both 1-5 overall. Does that on its own justify a #18 ranking? Probably not - but I am not a voter.

[ExTartanPlayer]

I have posted elsewhere in defense of the D3 top 25, and for all the difficulties in comparing teams across different regions of the country with virtually no common opponents I think they do a pretty good job.  There are a couple individual rankings that I find particularly galling at the moment (Wartburg staying at #22 with Dubuque unranked, for my reasons detailed in the Top 25 fan poll thread, and to a lesser extent John Carroll still being ranked #18 with ONU unranked, although that's not as bad with the h2h result being much less decisive and ONU carrying an ugly loss to BW).  I think Illinois Wesleyan is actually a little under-ranked for now.  But overall I think the poll is pretty good.

In a reply to a post I made on the ODAC board you used HSC's getting beat very badly to 9th Wabash as an argument that HSC is not that great of a win for Washington and Lee. You then turn around in your very next paragraph and argue that Dubuque getting stomped by a combined score 76 to 16 by two teams ranked lower than Wabash somehow justified Wartburg's getting hammered by Dubuque and Wartburg's 22nd place in the poll. Now on the NCAC board you find it "particularly galling" that Wartburg is ranked at all?  Very confusing.

Pretty sure that I didn't say this at all, and if I did, it was poor writing on my part.  I've been critical of the Dubuque/Wartburg placement every place that I've discussed it; I don't know exactly where to place those teams overall, but I do know that Wartburg ranked ahead of Dubuque makes zero sense when Dubuque beat Wartburg 45-13 and has only lost to to teams ranked higher than Wartburg.  No reason at all that Wartburg should be ahead of Dubuque.  If someone wants to rank Wartburg, cool, but then Dubuque should be on-ballot ahead of them.  I definitely never used Wartburg getting hammered by Dubuque to justify Wartburg's ranking.

(I just went back and re-read my post on the ODAC board, and I have no idea how you read that post and came to the conclusion that I was defending Wartburg's actual placement in the rankings.  I did suggest that your convoluted "Dubuque is 4-2 and beat #22 Wartburg, ergo 6-0 W&L should be favored over #22 Wartburg" argument is problematic because it assumes that "6-0 W&L team > 4-2 DBQ team" - but Dubuque's two losses are against teams much, much better than anyone W & L has played; there's no guarantee that just because 4-2 Dubuque beat Wartburg, 6-0 W&L would too, which was your position.  But I was not saying "Wartburg should totally still be ranked, bro."  I was merely saying that your assumption W & L > Wartburg because Wartburg lost to a "4-2 team" was not automatic.)

[HSCTiger fan]

I have posted elsewhere in defense of the D3 top 25, and for all the difficulties in comparing teams across different regions of the country with virtually no common opponents I think they do a pretty good job.  There are a couple individual rankings that I find particularly galling at the moment (Wartburg staying at #22 with Dubuque unranked, for my reasons detailed in the Top 25 fan poll thread, and to a lesser extent John Carroll still being ranked #18 with ONU unranked, although that's not as bad with the h2h result being much less decisive and ONU carrying an ugly loss to BW).  I think Illinois Wesleyan is actually a little under-ranked for now.  But overall I think the poll is pretty good.

In a reply to a post I made on the ODAC board you used HSC's getting beat very badly to 9th Wabash as an argument that HSC is not that great of a win for Washington and Lee. You then turn around in your very next paragraph and argue that Dubuque getting stomped by a combined score 76 to 16 by two teams ranked lower than Wabash somehow justified Wartburg's getting hammered by Dubuque and Wartburg's 22nd place in the poll. Now on the NCAC board you find it "particularly galling" that Wartburg is ranked at all?  Very confusing.

Pretty sure that I didn't say this at all, and if I did, it was poor writing on my part.  I've been critical of the Dubuque/Wartburg placement every place that I've discussed it; I don't know exactly where to place those teams overall, but I do know that Wartburg ranked ahead of Dubuque makes zero sense when Dubuque beat Wartburg 45-13 and has only lost to to teams ranked higher than Wartburg.  No reason at all that Wartburg should be ahead of Dubuque.  If someone wants to rank Wartburg, cool, but then Dubuque should be on-ballot ahead of them.  I definitely never used Wartburg getting hammered by Dubuque to justify Wartburg's ranking.

(I just went back and re-read my post on the ODAC board, and I have no idea how you read that post and came to the conclusion that I was defending Wartburg's actual placement in the rankings.  I did suggest that your convoluted "Dubuque is 4-2 and beat #22 Wartburg, ergo 6-0 W&L should be favored over #22 Wartburg" argument is problematic because it assumes that "6-0 W&L team > 4-2 DBQ team" - but Dubuque's two losses are against teams much, much better than anyone W & L has played; there's no guarantee that just because 4-2 Dubuque beat Wartburg, 6-0 W&L would too, which was your position.  But I was not saying "Wartburg should totally still be ranked, bro."  I was merely saying that your assumption W & L > Wartburg because Wartburg lost to a "4-2 team" was not automatic.)

In response to a post saying no ODAC team would be favored over any team ranked in the top 25 on a neutral site, I suggested if a team with 10 points in the poll (Dubuque) can stomp the 22nd ranked team (Wartburg), then its reasonable to think that a 20 point WL and a 14 point HSC COULD be possibly be favored in a neutral site game against Wartburg. My assumption was based solely on where the voters had placed them in the poll.  I guess niether of us were as clear in our post as we thought.

Best of luck this weekend.

[wabco]

HSC Tiger  As the weather gets a little more testy, I reflected on the HSC first game weather and hospitality.  I enjoyed seeing your "wagon" in early September and thanks again to all HSC folks for their hospitality.  Win the rest of your games.  It helps us both.  Same for us.  WAF.

[HSCTiger fan]

I wish HSC played Wabash every year. It would only make the Tigers better.

[wally_wabash]

Haven't talked much Wabash since the Witt game...time to get back on track.  I really like the way the last bit of the season sets up here for the LGs.  Roadie to Wooster tomorrow which will be the last long trip (for awhile) for Wabash.  After this, Wabash is home vs. OWU and Denison (not at the same time) and then week 11 at DePauw, which is like a second home at this point (Wabash hasn't lost in Greendingle since Havercamp's prayer was answered in 2007).  I like that Wabash has to deal with DuShawn Brown the week before DePauw (DePauw doesn't have any DuShawn Browns) and I like that they have to play Denison's defense the week before DePauw (Denison's defense > DePauw's defense).  Denison is a very nice prelude to DePauw and DePauw will be a nice prelude to the 32.  Looking forward to getting the team back in Indiana for about the next month or so. 

[bashbrother]

I wish HSC played Wabash every year. It would only make the Tigers better.

Same...  Two great institutions....two great football programs!   Keep winning HSC!