FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[repete]

Yeah, just came here because Wabashers took rips at SJU.

But how's this? Maybe the UST 3rd-down defense numbers said a little something about the Wabash offense.

A 9-27 passing game isn't going to help that stat.

[AO]

Well, only TD came off one of two TOs by a second-team QB -- who entered the game in the third quarter.

Concordia or Bethel would be a nice matchup. Gustavus air game would give them fits.  There's a reason WC's league is ranked 18th.

Wabash did bad things today that would cripple any team. And they got beat, just like every other team UST played this season and not by some wild margin you've never seen before. So whatever. How you extrapolate a favorable matchup for Concordia, Bethel, or Gustavus is beyond me. I can't believe we have to defend the team against this kind of bull****.

I love the speculation and this forum seems like the right place to do it.  Saying Wabash would finish in the middle of the MIAC isn't much of an insult these days.  4 MIAC teams were ranked in the top 25 this year, with Gustavus getting to #26.  The only non-conference loss among that group of 5 was Bethel vs. Wartburg.  So Wabash might be middle of the MIAC, but maybe still somewhere in the top 25.  Pretty darn good in a division with 248 teams!

[wally_wabash]

Yeah, just came here because Wabashers took rips at SJU.

But how's this? Maybe the UST 3rd-down defense numbers said a little something about the Wabash offense.

A 9-27 passing game isn't going to help that stat.

This is dumb.  Why does it always have to be that if an offense struggles it's because the offense is terrible and not because the other defense was great?  Give some damn credit to St. Thomas.  They were awesome today.  9-27 is poor, but St. Thomas had an awful lot to do with that number.  Good pressure, really good coverage.  It's not like Connor Rice was throwing the ball in the dirt all day.  Guys have to get open, too. 

[wally_wabash]

I love the speculation and this forum seems like the right place to do it.  Saying Wabash would finish in the middle of the MIAC isn't much of an insult these days.  4 MIAC teams were ranked in the top 25 this year, with Gustavus getting to #26.  The only non-conference loss among that group of 5 was Bethel vs. Wartburg.  So Wabash might be middle of the MIAC, but maybe still somewhere in the top 25 10.  Pretty darn good in a division with 248 teams!

Edited for accuracy. 

[repete]

I give UST plenty of credit for their D. Great team. The Tommies are at a different level than any of their playoff foes so far.

I just said may the air game -- or lack thereof -- contributed. And I did not single out Rice in that post. I said "passing game," which as far as I know DOES include the receivers.

My point is you can't pin the whole SJU is overrated or less complete than WC on the third-down defense stat. The game is more complex than that.

[AO]

I love the speculation and this forum seems like the right place to do it.  Saying Wabash would finish in the middle of the MIAC isn't much of an insult these days.  4 MIAC teams were ranked in the top 25 this year, with Gustavus getting to #26.  The only non-conference loss among that group of 5 was Bethel vs. Wartburg.  So Wabash might be middle of the MIAC, but maybe still somewhere in the top 25 10.  Pretty darn good in a division with 248 teams!

Edited for accuracy.

I was talking about a hypothetical 7-3 Wabash team that played in the MIAC.  D3football.com voters are better than the AFCA voters but they still drop teams too much for losing to higher ranked teams.

[hazzben]

I am not surprised that Wabash is an underdog in Triple Take. We are on the road, and the NCAC is a lower-caliber league (C-M and Gustavus could give DPU and Witt a big-time scrap and I think Bethel and Augsburg could take out Denison).

Still, this is a special team, and Wabash Always Fights!

Here's the original prediction of how MIAC teams would fair. Being totally honest, I think Bethel and Augsburg could give Wabash a big time scrap. 

[wally_wabash]

I give UST plenty of credit for their D. Great team. The Tommies are at a different level than any of their playoff foes so far.

I just said may the air game -- or lack thereof -- contributed. And I did not single out Rice in that post. I said "passing game," which as far as I know DOES include the receivers.

My point is you can't pin the whole SJU is overrated or less complete than WC on the third-down defense stat. The game is more complex than that.

I don't think SJU is overrated at all.  I don't think I said that. 

I can say that giving up 41% of your third downs is terrible.  That's quantifiable and compared to the entire division, it ranks 168th, which is, I maintain, terrible. 

If you're fishing for an SJU > Wabash take, it's just not there.  There's just not one piece of evidence that supports that.  SJU lost two non-competitive games to the same team Wabash lost a non-competitive game to.  If you want to compare scores, fine, but Wabash doesn't have the same familiarity with St. Thomas that St. John's does, so there's really limited mileage there.  Looking beyond the common opponent, I don't believe SJU defeated a team as good as Thomas More, who Wabash beat.  So best win points to Wabash.  There's not really a good reason to rank 2015 SJU ahead of 2015 Wabash, although I'm sure some will.  Probably not enough to see SJU ahead of Wabash in the final Top 25, though. 

[D O.C.]

Elite 8 Wa.
Take it to the bank and look at the interest next September.
Congrats seniors.

[repete]

I'd just say to whomever posted  that SJU "wasn't as good as everyone wanted them to be" that the real read was that UST was better than people -- including some Wabash folks -- thought they were.

We'll never know, of course. Both Wabash and SJU were good teams that got rolled by UST this year.

Not all that impressed by Thomas More, but as someone who has seen a bit of PAC ball, I'm not that impressed with the league. SJU absolutely throttled a conference champion from a solid league, while Wabash slipped by a better opponent. Which win was better? That's a legit disagreement.

It's worth pointing out that UST stuck with its first team QB throughout both SJU games, but pulled him in the third vs. Wabash and someone noted that the second team defense played about the final 12 today. And while none of the games were close, both scores (along with stats such as first downs/yardage and TOP) for SJU were closer.

My bias is showing, of course. And it will be interesting to see how it plays out.  But regardless of this inconsequential back and forth on these boards, a somewhat belated congrats  to Wabash players and coaches.

[wally_wabash]

I'd just say to whomever posted  that SJU "wasn't as good as everyone wanted them to be" that the real read was that UST was better than people -- including some Wabash folks -- thought they were.

St. Thomas was just as good as I thought they were.  I can't speak for everybody, but I think you're inventing slights where there were none. 

Not all that impressed by Thomas More, but as someone who has seen a bit of PAC ball, I'm not that impressed with the league.

That's too bad and really unfortunate because Thomas More was an outstanding team.  But I know that drill all too well- play in a bad league, and you stink according to people who follow teams from good leagues.  That's just the way it is and that's just the way it'll always be no matter how much I might crusade against it.  You do that team a ton of disrespect and a great disservice though.  They deserve better. 

And you pull that noise after getting all bent out of shape because somebody dared to say that they weren't all that impressed with Saint John's.  Really unfortunate. 

SJU absolutely throttled a conference champion from a solid league, while Wabash slipped by a better opponent. Which win was better? That's a legit disagreement.

The disagreement is built on the foundation that the IIAC is "a solid league" and the NCAC or the PAC is not.  How good really is the IIAC?  After Dubuque and Wartburg, how good are the other teams there in 2015?  I mean Central was 6-4.  Everybody else 4-6 or worse.  So how "solid" is that league really? 

It's worth pointing out that UST stuck with its first team QB throughout both SJU games, but pulled him in the third vs. Wabash and someone noted that the second team defense played about the final 12 today. And while none of the games were close, both scores (along with stats such as first downs/yardage and TOP) for SJU were closer.

Y'all get to play St. Thomas every year and twice this year.  Why wouldn't we expect the games to be a little tighter?  That matters. 

But regardless of this inconsequential back and forth on these boards, a somewhat belated congrats  to Wabash players and coaches.

I guess.  The clock barely hit 0:00 and you came in here guns blazing over basically nothing, so I'm not sure how much the mister nice guy thing plays at this point.  But thanks.  I guess. 

[repete]

Except a direct quote.

And then your confirmation. "somebody dared to say that they weren't all that impressed with Saint John's"

Bottom line: It's was 38-0 after three quarters and only a gift from a backup QB, who didn't see a snap in either SJU games, gave Wabash one short-field score.

[wm4]

That sequence of drives at the beginning of the 3rd quarter was killer. Thought Zurek was in for a TD that would have made it 17-7 and you think we've got a game. But holding negates the TD, Wabash misses the FG, Wabash fumbles the punt after a stop, gives up a TD on a fake FG, then gives up an onside kick that leads to another TD and boom, instead of 17-7, a few minutes later it's 31-0 and is all over.

Yeah.  That sequence really reminded me of the 3rd quarter sequence in Whitewater last year when the game went from close to avalanche city.  Eerily similar actually.  But that's the razor thin line in this round of the tournament against teams of this caliber- just takes one big giveaway to give up 14 real quick and then you're chasing scores against defenses that don't give them up easy. 

St. Thomas was excellent, as we knew.  They played great today, really made Wabash pay maximum penalties for errors, and earned a great win today in every phase.  Whoever they get next week will have their hands completely full, no doubt.  I said this before the game and I'm still on it- St. Thomas may be the tournament favorite.  Exceptional football team. 

Today sucks for sure, but this has been an amazing season.  One of the most fun Wabash seasons I've had the pleasure to follow in 20 years.  The team won 12 games for just the third time in program history.  We had a 2,000 yard rusher for the first time in program history (Two Thousand Yards!!).  This team steamrolled Wittenberg.  This team steamrolled DePauw for a SEVENTH consecutive Monon Bell victory.  It's been an incredible ride in 2015.  Wabash Always Fights, and Wabash will be back here in 2016.  I have no doubt about that.

So while it's easy to be critical of Caruso and UST for their famed "behind the back" 2 point play against Carlton...maybe, just maybe the real observation is that UST is very well prepared on special teams, no matter the opponent or the game situation.   Hats off to Wabash for a great season and they have a very good defense.  The blitzkrieg of special team points in the third quarter was just a back breaker in a game that matched two teams that were very good. 

[wally_wabash]

Except a direct quote.

And then your confirmation. "somebody dared to say that they weren't all that impressed with Saint John's"

Bottom line: It's was 38-0 after three quarters and only a gift from a backup QB, who didn't see a snap in either SJU games, gave Wabash one short-field score.

There you go with the score again.  Your butt-kicking was slightly less severe than Wabash's butt-kicking.  Tirere's absolutely no substance there.  If Wabash got beat like this and SJU managed to play a good game with UST in either of their games (again, this year over year rivalry familiarity is critical and you're completely ignoring it...please stop), you have something approaching a good point.  But they didn't.  We both got smashed, dude.  Degree doesn't much matter. 

[smedindy]

I didn't realize Johnny fans were as arrogant and myopic as OAC fans.

And dudes, I lived up there for a few years and I LIKED you guys, and then you pull this today?