FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[sigma one]

Wabash recruiting does not overlap in any significant sense with Wheaton.  As a Christian college, the Wheaton is national in scope.  They attract students who want a particular kind of campus climate.  And they have a church-based recruiting network.  This is not to say that occasionally Wheaton and Wabash may bump into one another on the recruiting trail, but rarely.  They are just fishing in different pools.
      As for the Purple Raiders and Warhawks--again I see very little overlap.  Recently, UMU has added a number of Florida athletes to its roster, and they always have a few Indiana guys--a studly one from Greencastle this year.  UWWhitewater, of course, is heavily based in Wisconsin.
     The core of all Wabash teams going back, well, forever, is Indiana.  There is that strong Arizona presence for the past ten years of so because an assistant coach knew that territory and the team received permission to mine for players there.  Before that, there was south Texas for a few years.  Going way back there was a steady trickle of western Pennsylvania athletes, but that's been gone, gone, gone.   Wabash has not recruited Florida at all, or throughout the south for that matter.
      Additionally, there has always been a small migration from Michigan and Ohio--read the Bureshes from the north.  It's just really tough to get much traction in Ohio (one to three players a year recently, and a few good ones),
     Examining the current Wabash roster, you will find that the vast majority are Indiana, which reflects the composition of the student body.  A question has always been--Can you win the big ones with Indiana guys?  That's becoming more plausible because over the last 15 years or so Indiana high school football has been slowly improving.
     I agree that the biggest hurdle is convincing students, including student-athletes to come to an all-male school.  That, and stiffer admissions requirements than most other nearby schools, shrinks the recruiting pool for the kind of athletes that Wabash needs.  On the other side, recent football success and persistent, personable recruiting have helped. 
     As I think about this year, I come back to this:  12-1 and advancing to the third round of the playoffs, defeating DPU in the biggest of rivalry games, conference champion, beating a solid HSC for an out-of-conference win.  That's pretty darn good.  I know the ultimate goal for coaches and players (and some fans) is a national title.  That's as it should be.  I want that too.  But walking away with this year's accomplishments is seriously impressive for a small, rural midwestern, academically rigorous, strictly liberal arts (read no business or other more applied degrees), all-male college.  Much to be proud of.   WAF
       
         

[BayernFan]

Lots of HC openings in FBS.  Does ER get lured to take an assistant position there?

[NewHawk]

Wabash recruiting does not overlap in any significant sense with Wheaton.  As a Christian college, the Wheaton is national in scope.  They attract students who want a particular kind of campus climate.  And they have a church-based recruiting network.  This is not to say that occasionally Wheaton and Wabash may bump into one another on the recruiting trail, but rarely.  They are just fishing in different pools.
      As for the Purple Raiders and Warhawks--again I see very little overlap.  Recently, UMU has added a number of Florida athletes to its roster, and they always have a few Indiana guys--a studly one from Greencastle this year.  UWWhitewater, of course, is heavily based in Wisconsin.
     The core of all Wabash teams going back, well, forever, is Indiana.  There is that strong Arizona presence for the past ten years of so because an assistant coach knew that territory and the team received permission to mine for players there.  Before that, there was south Texas for a few years.  Going way back there was a steady trickle of western Pennsylvania athletes, but that's been gone, gone, gone.   Wabash has not recruited Florida at all, or throughout the south for that matter.
      Additionally, there has always been a small migration from Michigan and Ohio--read the Bureshes from the north.  It's just really tough to get much traction in Ohio (one to three players a year recently, and a few good ones),
     Examining the current Wabash roster, you will find that the vast majority are Indiana, which reflects the composition of the student body.  A question has always been--Can you win the big ones with Indiana guys?  That's becoming more plausible because over the last 15 years or so Indiana high school football has been slowly improving.
     I agree that the biggest hurdle is convincing students, including student-athletes to come to an all-male school.  That and stiffer admissions requirements than most other nearby schools, shrinks the recruiting pool for the kind of athletes that Wabash needs.  On the other side, recent football success and persistent, personable recruiting has helped. 
     As I think about this year, I come back to this:  12-1 and advancing to the third round of the playoffs, defeating DPU in the biggest of rivalry games, conference champion, beating a solid HSC for an out-of-conference win.  That's pretty darn good.  I know the ultimate goal for coaches and players (and some fans) is a national title.  That's as it should be.  I want that too.  But walking away with this year's accomplishments is seriously impressive for a small, rural midwestern, academically rigorous, strictly liberal arts (read no business or other more applied degrees), all-male college.  Much to be proud of.   WAF
       
       

UWW has a strong recruiting presence in Northern Illinois and takes recruits away from several of the Chicago based D3's as well.  The absence of any D2 schools in Northern IL and Wisconsin is a boon for recruiting for all the Wisconsin schools.  However, Dylan Morang is an Indiana guy, out of St. John, IN so you definitely missed one there.

[smedindy]

Ohio is tough for anyone since there's the OAC and other NCAC schools plus other divisions. Plenty of choices there. Chicagoland used to be a pipeline for Wabash, but the emergence of North Central and the CCIW probably makes that a hotter bed, too.

Recruiting isn't easy - you have to pick a strategy and stick with it over a few years to build relationships. I'm sure Wabash wouldn't mind getting some kids from my area, but there are a lot of D2 and D3 schools in the NW, plus NAIA around that can compete for them.

[HSCTiger fan]

EDIT: And I failed to address the recruiting issue. I think the biggest issue we have with recruiting has ZERO to do with academics and has mainly to do with being all-male. In my years assisting the admissions office I've learned getting the dudes who want to play for our teams isn't the hard part. It's getting them to a college where they won't have women around that's the hard part. Now, I'm in no way suggesting that change. But that's the big issue, imho.

I concur. I've worked more than a few admissions fairs where I felt like I was hawking kryptonite at a superman convention. Recruiting inside Indiana is a little easier since the wabash network is palpable and most prospectives know at least a little about the school and probably know several alums. You basically have to not only recruit the prospective but find the mentor who can convince the student that in spite of his initial skepticism, he can have a great experience at Wabash. THEN you have to play defense. I had a local (non-Indiana) prospective signed up ready to go but basically lost him to the constant ribbing he was getting in his high school locker room.

I hope you are right and the Raeburn family feels like they have a long term home here.  For BJ, I know it has to be hard to pass up another hc opportunity if it comes along. He's also got a great thing at wabash. Can we vote him a pay raise?

I know it's easy to think that our playoff run has ended two years in a row being outgunned by a purple. It also took whitewater three trips to Salem to bring home their first championship. Experience and cleaning up mental mistakes will help. These last two playoff runs can only help recruiting. I'd really be interested to know who the competition is for our top football prospects. If it moves beyond being franklin, depauw, etc and starts being Wheaton and the purples, then we've got a shot in the next few years of beating a purple.

I don't know Wabash but being all male is not the biggest recruiting hurdle at HSC. It's the 50k in costs to attend. A quick check says you guys are over 47k. By far and away the most expensive school in the final 8.

[HSCTiger fan]

Unofficial tuition rates of final eight.

UWW 14k
Oshkosh 14k
MHB 21k
Wesley 23k
St. Thomas 27k
Mt. Union 27k
Linfield 37k
Wabash 39k

[stormyfuture]

tuition alone at UST (Saint Thomas) exceeds your posted number.

14-15 costs were/are $1,121 per credit hour, which seems crazy to me.  It has more than doubled since I graduated in '02.
2 (16 credit hour semesters) would be $35,872

[Li'l Giant]

EDIT: And I failed to address the recruiting issue. I think the biggest issue we have with recruiting has ZERO to do with academics and has mainly to do with being all-male. In my years assisting the admissions office I've learned getting the dudes who want to play for our teams isn't the hard part. It's getting them to a college where they won't have women around that's the hard part. Now, I'm in no way suggesting that change. But that's the big issue, imho.

I concur. I've worked more than a few admissions fairs where I felt like I was hawking kryptonite at a superman convention. Recruiting inside Indiana is a little easier since the wabash network is palpable and most prospectives know at least a little about the school and probably know several alums. You basically have to not only recruit the prospective but find the mentor who can convince the student that in spite of his initial skepticism, he can have a great experience at Wabash. THEN you have to play defense. I had a local (non-Indiana) prospective signed up ready to go but basically lost him to the constant ribbing he was getting in his high school locker room.

I hope you are right and the Raeburn family feels like they have a long term home here.  For BJ, I know it has to be hard to pass up another hc opportunity if it comes along. He's also got a great thing at wabash. Can we vote him a pay raise?

I know it's easy to think that our playoff run has ended two years in a row being outgunned by a purple. It also took whitewater three trips to Salem to bring home their first championship. Experience and cleaning up mental mistakes will help. These last two playoff runs can only help recruiting. I'd really be interested to know who the competition is for our top football prospects. If it moves beyond being franklin, depauw, etc and starts being Wheaton and the purples, then we've got a shot in the next few years of beating a purple.

I don't know Wabash but being all male is not the biggest recruiting hurdle at HSC. It's the 50k in costs to attend. A quick check says you guys are over 47k. By far and away the most expensive school in the final 8.

Most students don't pay full freight. Wabash's financial aid office web page states that 2/3 of Wabash families receive need-based assistance. Add in merit based funds available through things like our Honor Scholar Weekend and I seldom (albeit in my limited role as an outside assistant to the admissions office) hear kids or their parents say it's about the dinero.

(Stephen A. Smith Voice) HOWEVAH....

tuition alone at UST (Saint Thomas) exceeds your posted number.

14-15 costs were/are $1,121 per credit hour, which seems crazy to me.  It has more than doubled since I graduated in '02.
2 (16 credit hour semesters) would be $35,872

When I was a Wabash freshman in the fall of 1995 the full sticker price, with room and board in the dorms, was approximately $18,500 per year. With the merit and need based financial aid I got it was actually cheaper to go to Wabash than it was the University of Texas. Today, 20 years later, it's over 3 times more expensive. And U of Texas tuition has been "deregulated" so I'm not sure the math doesn't work out the same way for a Texas kid like me trying to choose an expensive liberal arts college over the local state university.

[Fannosaurus Rex]

I'd just say to whomever posted  that SJU "wasn't as good as everyone wanted them to be" that the real read was that UST was better than people -- including some Wabash folks -- thought they were.

St. Thomas was just as good as I thought they were.  I can't speak for everybody, but I think you're inventing slights where there were none. 

Not all that impressed by Thomas More, but as someone who has seen a bit of PAC ball, I'm not that impressed with the league.

That's too bad and really unfortunate because Thomas More was an outstanding team.  But I know that drill all too well- play in a bad league, and you stink according to people who follow teams from good leagues.  That's just the way it is and that's just the way it'll always be no matter how much I might crusade against it.  You do that team a ton of disrespect and a great disservice though.  They deserve better. 

And you pull that noise after getting all bent out of shape because somebody dared to say that they weren't all that impressed with Saint John's.  Really unfortunate. 

SJU absolutely throttled a conference champion from a solid league, while Wabash slipped by a better opponent. Which win was better? That's a legit disagreement.

The disagreement is built on the foundation that the IIAC is "a solid league" and the NCAC or the PAC is not. How good really is the IIAC?  After Dubuque and Wartburg, how good are the other teams there in 2015?  I mean Central was 6-4.  Everybody else 4-6 or worse.  So how "solid" is that league really? 

It's worth pointing out that UST stuck with its first team QB throughout both SJU games, but pulled him in the third vs. Wabash and someone noted that the second team defense played about the final 12 today. And while none of the games were close, both scores (along with stats such as first downs/yardage and TOP) for SJU were closer.

Y'all get to play St. Thomas every year and twice this year.  Why wouldn't we expect the games to be a little tighter?  That matters. 

But regardless of this inconsequential back and forth on these boards, a somewhat belated congrats  to Wabash players and coaches.

I guess.  The clock barely hit 0:00 and you came in here guns blazing over basically nothing, so I'm not sure how much the mister nice guy thing plays at this point.  But thanks.  I guess.

Ah jeez, did we really have to bring Central and the IIAC into this?  Actually, Wartburg gave the eventual 2014 national champs a pretty good game last year.  Yeah I know, what have you done lately.  I expect a return to relevance soon.

[Dr. Acula]

As I think about this year, I come back to this:  12-1 and advancing to the third round of the playoffs, defeating DPU in the biggest of rivalry games, conference champion, beating a solid HSC for an out-of-conference win.  That's pretty darn good.  I know the ultimate goal for coaches and players (and some fans) is a national title.  That's as it should be.  I want that too.  But walking away with this year's accomplishments is seriously impressive for a small, rural midwestern, academically rigorous, strictly liberal arts (read no business or other more applied degrees), all-male college.  Much to be proud of.   WAF

Wow, I did not realize this part.  To me that's a big hurdle too.  What are the more popular majors?  I ask because when I was in school probably 1/3 of our team was majoring in one of the business majors so I could see how the lack of those as options may be an obstacle in recruiting.     

[Li'l Giant]

As I think about this year, I come back to this:  12-1 and advancing to the third round of the playoffs, defeating DPU in the biggest of rivalry games, conference champion, beating a solid HSC for an out-of-conference win.  That's pretty darn good.  I know the ultimate goal for coaches and players (and some fans) is a national title.  That's as it should be.  I want that too.  But walking away with this year's accomplishments is seriously impressive for a small, rural midwestern, academically rigorous, strictly liberal arts (read no business or other more applied degrees), all-male college.  Much to be proud of.   WAF

Wow, I did not realize this part.  To me that's a big hurdle too.  What are the more popular majors?  I ask because when I was in school probably 1/3 of our team was majoring in one of the business majors so I could see how the lack of those as options may be an obstacle in recruiting.     

English, History, Rhetoric, Psychology, Economics tend to be popular.

[DPU3619]

I've always thought that it's harder for Wabash (and also DePauw) to recruit Indiana now because Franklin and Marian are both really good and considerably cheaper.

I've had 6 kids go to Franklin in 4 years and at least one on the way for next year. We sent 1 to Wabash and 0 to DePauw. A couple of them legitimately WANTED to go to Franklin and never considered anywhere else, but some others had their decision made for them by not being admitted to Wabash or DePauw. There was mutual interest from both schools in some of those kids. Now they play for the Griz.

There's not a lot of bleed over with RHIT in terms of the type of kids you get from a curriculum standpoint (liberal arts vs engineering) but they are certainly a factor in the recruiting of skill guys in this state, too. Their WR corps could play just about anywhere.

[wabashcpa]

As I think about this year, I come back to this:  12-1 and advancing to the third round of the playoffs, defeating DPU in the biggest of rivalry games, conference champion, beating a solid HSC for an out-of-conference win.  That's pretty darn good.  I know the ultimate goal for coaches and players (and some fans) is a national title.  That's as it should be.  I want that too.  But walking away with this year's accomplishments is seriously impressive for a small, rural midwestern, academically rigorous, strictly liberal arts (read no business or other more applied degrees), all-male college.  Much to be proud of.   WAF

Wow, I did not realize this part.  To me that's a big hurdle too.  What are the more popular majors?  I ask because when I was in school probably 1/3 of our team was majoring in one of the business majors so I could see how the lack of those as options may be an obstacle in recruiting.   

This goes back to how do you sell a liberal arts degree.  And I agree, especially with tuition costs today, that it is a hurdle.  It's a great fit for some, but not for all.  That's part of what makes it special.  It's also clearly part of why it is so difficult for us to get past the Elite 8 hurdle.  Long way of saying I agree with you, Dr. Acula.

[Joe Wally]

We've ventured into the top ten several times under Raeburn and Creighton.  I  struggle to think that the thing that keeps us from moving from top ten to top four is our culture as an all-male liberal arts college.

That said, if it is our culture that prevents us from reaching any further than the elite eight, I suspect that there are precious few of us amongst the alumni who would trade that culture for a championship.

[bashbrother]

That said, if it is our culture that prevents us from reaching any further than the elite eight, I suspect that there are precious few of us amongst the alumni who would trade that culture for a championship.

Very Well Said!

WAF