FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[medicine man]

Actually Wooster JV played Mount Union two years ago in 2003- I was there, it was at Mt. Union. The junior class this year played them their freshman year.

[BashBacker#16]

Crusader,

I can't stand it any longer, I have to post... Name a defense that was better then Wabash this year - that Cap faced.  I would give you 1 (maybe 2) that were as talented but it is a tough argument to name one that is outright BETTER.  Ask Coach Collins?  Also, for the record, that Wabash/Cap game was pretty ideal weather conditions with little wind but chilly in the high 40s.  For those that were not at the game, it wasn't like it was blizzard like nor rainy and it impacted the play calls.  It didn't.  I thought Pentello threw more then a handful of deep balls - they (most) just weren't completed.

The thought and statement that Cap "could have opened it up" is just silly.  I am sure they wanted to end it on an INT in the endzone with 1:03 left to play??  Cap was lucky to escape with that win and it does not take a Wabash fan to realize that.  I believe if those teams play 10 times, each win 5 as Smeds stated.

Harbaugh vs. Pentello is a tough call - nearly impossible to decide after 1 game.  Harbaugh was pretty amazing all season long.  2 of the best QBs in the country this year - my opinion.

[jdean]

I've never seen Harbaugh play but I heard many good things about him from Cap fans that visited last week. Pentello was throwing darts right on the #'s this past Sat.
The corners were getting great coverage but he threw it just where it had to be for completions until later in the 4Q when Mount blitzed. Other than Eliot they could be 2 of the best.

[usee]

IMO, the reason why NCC & WC was able to hang with CAP was b/c of the 5 turnovers they had against NCC, and the fact they were able to rely so heavily on their defense and able to control the clock and rely on their efficiency with their offense.  Not to take anything away from NCC or WC, as they both deserved to be in the playoffs, but I think that Cap could have beat them more convincingly, if needed.  I think that Cap played both teams 10 times each, they beat them both 9 out of 10 times.  Cap can open up their offense when needed, but with a defense like the one they had this year, they didn't need to.  If WC was able to put some points on the board prior to the 4th Quarter, it would have been fun to watch, because I think Pentello was the better of the QB's.  But, I could be wrong, as this is just my opinion.  I've watched WC & NCC play once, vs. watching Cap play every game the past three years.  I would take Pentello any day of the week that ends in "Y"!

this is one of the more ridiculous posts i have seen. I was at the ncc/cap game and it was about as even as those who described the wabash/cap game. 3 of the 4 fumbles had contact at or near the point of the fumble and the int speaks for itself. keep in mind ncc lost one of the nation's best recievers in the first quarter to a separated shoulder (non contact--he fell on it while diving for a ball--may have actually been a broken collarbone). also, ncc only scored 10 pts off those 5 turnovers. these were 2 very evenly matched teams. with 4min left ncc had 4th and 12 at the cap 35. ncc completed a pass inside the 10 yd line but kniss was 1 yd over the LOS so it was cap ball (loss of down and 10 yds). cap ran off all but 59 seconds and ncc w no timeouts got in position for a 50 yd fg to win it. thats how close this game was. to argue anything different is delusional.

i think wabash, ncc and cap are all very similar and very close to each other in ability.  each of those games turned on very small breaks one way or another.

[aueagle]

kcreds: The JV program at OWU has to improve, and will, as over-all numbers increase for the team. Roster size has grown the past couple of years and more JV games will result. The feeder system for the Varsity is key for the Bishops, if they wish to compete at the higher level. I trust jr is programed to grow in size & speed over the winter/spring/summer. His class has to build and plan for victories & championships.
Men of Indiana: Want to hear your take on the Univ. of St. Francis. They have had a great run for the NAIA Championship. I've noticed their team comes from mainly Indianapolis & Ft. Wayne (go figure the Ft. W). They did beat Indiana State (42-10) and Wis-Eau Claire (strong D3 - 35-10). Would the LG's compete & how so? GO BISHOPS

[BashBacker#16]

AUEagle -

I am not a huge NAIA fan (AT ALL) and call it renegade football at its best.  Poor facilities, incredibly loose academic requirements, many gross programs around the country, etc.  USF is should be called Ft. Wayne College.  We recruit against them and occasionally lose kids based on purely money.  Take money out of the equation, rarely would a kid say flat out, I'd rather play at Saint Francis.  I have not seen USF play but knowing a lot of the players on the roster, couldn't help but think it would be a very good game.  They have done a nice job building that program but they are not as good as they like to think they are.  I was not surprised with the ISU score.  Reality, I would bet that many D3 kids (especially the better players), turn down NAIA offers to play D3.  NAIA folks don't believe that and think D3 is a notch down from their league - no way!  Just my two cents...

[aueagle]

BashBacker16: Iam not a NAIA fan either, but I have seen some of their games in Ohio. Just wanted the perspective...thanks.

[Pat Coleman]

AUEagle -

I am not a huge NAIA fan (AT ALL) and call it renegade football at its best.  Poor facilities, incredibly loose academic requirements, many gross programs around the country, etc. 

I am not a fan either, but you can't paint it with that broad brush either.

[skunks_sidekick]

Very true, Pat.  We have two schools here in the Canton area that are both quality institutions in Walsh, and Malone.  Both play their home football games in Fawcett Stadium, and each has a nice campus.  Academically they are up there as well. 

Mount ends up recruiting against both, and has to fight against the "come here and play now" pitch.  But then again, they generally have to do that against anyone.

I know Walsh has been denied making the NAIA play-offs the last few years by losses to St. Francis.

[formerd3db]

I'll add my two cents regarding NAIA football.  I would agree that, unfortunately, some of those programs are indeed "renegarde programs" for the reasons mentioned.  On the other hand, there are some very good and successful legit NAIA programs with good and/or decent academics; Georgetown, KY; Cumberland, KY, Carson-Newman, TN, Taylor Univ, IN and Northwestern, IA come to mind.  Recall also, that a good number of current DIII (and DII) programs used to be NAIA (Franklin, IN, Findlay, OH, Defiance, OH).  Several of the Great Lakes IAC conference were also dual NAIA and NCAA members several years back and most of them competed in the NAIA playoffs.  Those programs were not so bad back in their NAIA times.so like Pat says, one has to be careful about generalizations across the board. Also, I recall that current Rose-Hulman Head Coach Kerras used to be at St. Francics, IND and helped get that program in a good direction.

[crusader26]

Name a defense that was better then Wabash this year - that Cap faced. I would give you 1 (maybe 2) that were as talented but it is a tough argument to name one that is outright BETTER. Ask Coach Collins? Also, for the record, that Wabash/Cap game was pretty ideal weather conditions with little wind but chilly in the high 40s. For those that were not at the game, it wasn't like it was blizzard like nor rainy and it impacted the play calls. It didn't. I thought Pentello threw more then a handful of deep balls - they (most) just weren't completed.

BashBacker#16, here is the answer to your question, in order:

1.)  Mt. Union
2.)  Ohio Northern
3.)  John Carroll
4.)  Otterbein

You are not going to like my answer, but you asked.  I will remember to ask JimCo at the banquet his opinion, and be sure to let you know.  I never stated any reason why I thought they didn't open up the offense against Wabash, I just stated that I thought they could have opened it up more in comparison to watching them play their regular season games.

[Ryan Tipps]

BashBacker#16, here is the answer to your question, in order:

1.)  Mt. Union
2.)  Ohio Northern
3.)  John Carroll
4.)  Otterbein

I've had fun kicking back and watching all this bickering unfold, both on the NCAC board and the OAC board. But, now I had to chime in to say that BB#16 has a point here. The numbers speak for themselves (and hopefully I can cut-and-paste them accurately so as not to look like a moron )

Wabash does have one of the best-rated defenses in the country, according to the NCAA online stat sheets. For instance:
Wabash is 14th in total defense (MUC is 2nd and Cap is 3nd)
Wabash is 5th in rushing defense (MUC is 16th and Cap is 2nd)
Wabash is unranked in passing defense (MUC is 1st, ONU is 21st and Cap is unranked)
Wabash is 3rd in scoring defense (MUC is 2nd, ONU is 21st and Cap is 5th).
Otterbein and John Carroll are not even mentioned in any of the Top 35 listings.

What's that you say? Wabash plays weaker teams throughout the year, which naturally trumps up their ratings. How is that a fair comparison?

I'm glad you asked.

Wabash tied with one other team in holding Capital to as few points as they scored all season. (at just 14) Aditionally, here are the box score numbers for Cap's rushing yards and passing yards against the team listed. Against...
...Wabash: 68-171
...Mount (regular season): 68-207
...Mount (postseason): 53-365
...Northern: 117-271
...John Carrol: 161-143
...Otterbein: 74-208

Now, obviously on Nov. 26, the Crusaders were the better team, and I'd like to believe that if the two teams met 10 times, Wabash would win its share. I honestly don't know, and neither does anyone else. Cap won when they needed to, and played a great game to do so. We just can't deny that there was no defense that Capital faced that stood shoulders above the Wabash team -- which I think was the essense of BB#16's point. The numbers don't lie, and there's no spin attached.

[bashbrother]

Here is an unofficial list I pulled together of those who have committed to the Aztec Bowl so far.


Offense:

Russ Harbaugh, QB - Wabash 
Brenden Kavey, RB - Bridgewater St.
Casey Meehan, RB - St. Norbert
Aaron Krepps, WR/KR - Wash&Jeff
Jesse Schmidt, WR - Buena Vista
Chase Jonason, TE - Depauw
Tom Power, OL - Wartburg (Great name for the OL)
Joe Scalice, OL - Ithaca
Dave Hendricks, OL - Theil
Eric Ludwig, OL - Williams
Daniel Oliphant, OL - Colby
Jacob Thomas, P - Witt

Defense:

Rob Tamillow, DL - Chicago
Damien Dumonceaux, DL - St. Johns
Michael Blair, DL - Trinity, TX
Ryan Lewis, DL - Baldwin-Wallace
Lenny Radtke, LB - North Central
Justin Wood, LB - Chris. Newport
Brenton Brady, LB - Alfred
Joe Seep, DB - UW-Stout
Aaron Margo, DB - Grove City
Brent Tieri, DB - UW-Eau Claire
Wes Hostetler, DB - Ohio Northern

[Pat Coleman]

Delaware Valley QB Adam Knoblauch

[BashBacker#16]

Cap26,

Are you telling me that all 4 of those defenses are better then Wabash?  Is so, your on crack - no way.

I said there may be 1 or 2 (Mount for sure, maybe ONU but I am not for sure) that were as talented but it would make for a tough argument to state that they were BETTER. 

WCLegacy - thanks for the numbers.  God forbid we back anything up with factual numbers.  John Carroll...c'mon, they only gave up 70 to Mount on 9/17.  Otterbein is also a strong reach...they held a tough Heidelberg team to 35!!!