FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[wally_wabash]

It's not just history, tradition, or facilities that determine where a student athlete is going to go to school.  It's a combination of those things and different kids put different emphasis on each of those things.  But let's say for instance that a kid is trying to decide between two relatively equal teams with respect to tradition and recent success, etc.  One of those schools has top of the line facilities, the other has a weightroom carved out of a dungeon.  There's a pretty strong chance that a recruit is going to gravitate toward the better facilities, ceteris paribus.  So no, it's not simply that a school with new facilities will all of a sudden attract blue chip athletes and immediately catapult into the top tier of DIII, but facilities are important. 

And I'm not one to toss around compliments to Mount Union very often, but I've been to Mount Union Stadium, and by DIII standards, it's a very good stadium. 

[evacuee]

I guess the tie breaker you mention is what puts OWU ahead of the bottom half.  However, despite the best game day facilities I've seen in D3, it doesn't seem to help them break the upper tier.

Conversely, EM Stevens stadium in San Antonio is an embarrassment of a facility and Trinity has one of the nation's top 5 winning percentages in the last decade.

Bottom line, a good salesman can sell anything.  What he says to the players is a much bigger deal than any facility. 

[kcreds]

History, tradition, and facilities are I'm sure contributing factors but the bottom line is what school is the most competitive, recruited the hardest, and the recruit has the earliest of chances to play. The rest is just fluff. I am also taking into account that all schools considered are good academically. There will, however, always be exceptions.

[joelmama]

Everything else being equal are you going to place with a good weightroom, locker room, training room, good football field and stadium or the one that is run down?  Almost seems like a silly question.  Of course the everything else being equal is the quality of the school/match of academics to the student, quality of football program and other factors important to a recruit.  And the weighting between all of the factors obviously matters.


BTW for those that have not been to MUC I think you will find the facilities as good or better than most  other D3 locations

[joelmama]

Wally,

I think I just repeated everything you just said ( and probably not as well) so sorry for being redundnant.

[wally_wabash]

I'm not sure the chance to play early is any more important than the other factors...some of the elite programs have guys waiting 2-3 years to play.  Again, playing early is a factor and an important one to some recruits, but not all.  Every individual has certain things that they are looking for and each to a certain degree.  Some kids are blown away by reputation alone.  Some are blown away by awesome facilities.  Some want to get promised playing time.  It's pointless to say one thing is more important than the other.  They are all important ingredients to the goulash that is recruiting.  

[firstdown]

I agree with Wally.  However, for a player coming out of large high school with a nice stadium (yes there are some with field turf and diamond vision for replays) and great weight and training facilities to come to a college with inadequate facilities, those can be a turn off.  A coach with great facilities is going to tout those, just like coaches that recruit against Wabash tout the presence of coeds on campus.  Most of the players going to the better academic schools in D III have enough sense to look at the big picture and pick the place that's the right fit for them.

If you are a Mount Union, you sell your great facilities and program and the fact that a player will graduate with a National Championship Ring or two.  If you are a Kenyon, you sell that your program is on the upswing and that an incoming player will get on the field sooner.

[firstdown]

One last thought - at the end of the day, for many kids it comes down to the financial package.  DIII schools are not inexpensive.  Obviously getting a first rate education is of great value, but for a lot of kids and their parents, the dollars and cents are weighed pretty carefully as well.

[GoBigRed04]

Mount's stadium is nice after renovation but they were dominant obviously beforehand in the mid to late 90's and in the present as well.  I am simply saying that you can't deny that better facilities did not help out a Capital for instance, bring in better talent which in turn led to them making the playoffs this year and attempting to close that gap between them and Mount.  I look for schools like Kenyon and Denison to improve dramatically within these next couple of years.  Denison is already somewhat closing the gap between themselves and Witt--even Wabash I'll have to admit is probably the team to beat in NCAC as of late.   

[kcreds]

What some of you want me to believe is that a good athlete will as often as not be willing to go to a school that offers better facilities or wins the conference frequently regardless if he has to wait 3 years to play and regardless of how interested the coaches might be in him or that those issues are all equal. I strongly disagree. Let me take a survey and see if I am in the minority. Academically all issues are equal. You are a standout football player that has started the majority of your high school games. I believe the majority of DIII players fit that criteria. Choose 1,2, or 3. I will use the OAC as an example because we are obviously partial when it comes to the NCAC.

1. I will go to Mount Union even though there is a good chance I will not play until my Junior year and the coaches did not recruit me hard.

2. I will go to Marietta because they recruited me hard and their facilities are great.

3. I will go to Ohio Northern because they recruited me hard, the coach says that I have a great chance to play my freshman year.

My vote is 3. I know I'm putting myself out there but its June and I thought it would be fun to stir something up. I am also a believer that if you can play for a contender, you may be one of the reasons you knock off the favorite.

GoBigRed04: I love your optimism but you need to close the gap on OWU first, then set your sites on Witt. OWU has their blinker on getting ready to turn the corner and Denison is a block behind them. If Denison can beat OWU this year then I will be a believer. Around the corner sits Witt and Wabash.

[frank uible]

Or I will go to MIT for the academics, and let football happen as it may.

[GoBigRed04]

kcreds:  I know that close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades but if you look at the scores from '03 and '05 Denison-OWU games you'll see that Denison only lost by a TD in both and they came very late in contest that could've gone either way.  Call it optimism or not I feel that this is the year that Denison will get over that hump against OWU. 

[joelmama]

Or a thinking kid will say a school that pays attention to its facilities more than a another school does values this part of ana education more ad they will choose that school over another if the other facots are equal or if they feel equal in that persons mind.

[evacuee]

Most difference makers think they can play no matter where they go.  I think that most great players, particularly if they know they are great, want to play in a great program and win a championship.  That's how Mt Union stockpiles players, as far as I can tell. 

Regardless of the fact that I picked option 1 from Kcreds most recent post,

IRREGARDLESS is a double negative and not a word! 

[lancer98]

TU,

Amen to the comment on Wooster and Barnes.  Credit him for getting the attention of the Administration towards football.  President Hales is also a huge supporter of athletics and the football program especially which is why I believe Wooster has had much success in sports during his tenure in particular the big 3 (Football, Basketball, Baseball).

Unfortunetly, admissions continue to tighten strings on recruits for Woo which is one of the leading factors Barnes left aside from the fact he had an opprtunity to go to his alma mater.

Contrary to some opinions of former players, I thought he was an outstanding coach and was very sad to see him go after my soph year.  Had he stayed I believe Woo would have enjoyed more and continued success than they currently are.  To be quite honest, after this year I am concerned about there ability to compete in the conference let alone the national level.  They need a huge recruiting class if they are to continue to be competitive in the top half.