FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

Kira & Jaxon's Dad · December 19, 2006, 10:13:02 PM

Why doesn't a team from the NCAC take a page out of UWW's book and schedule MTU in a home and home to open the season. I saw a few quotes (from Kleppe, Berez., and others) who said that they wanted to see what MTU was like so they could learn what they had to do to beat them. They didn't win, but they made it to two consecutive Stagg Bowls. Seems odd with the close proximity that no one wants to step up to the plate from the NCAC.

Pat Coleman · December 20, 2006, 12:55:31 AM

Quote from: kirasdad on December 19, 2006, 10:13:02 PM
Why doesn't a team from the NCAC take a page out of UWW's book and schedule MTU in a home and home to open the season. I saw a few quotes (from Kleppe, Berez., and others) who said that they wanted to see what MTU was like so they could learn what they had to do to beat them. They didn't win, but they made it to two consecutive Stagg Bowls. Seems odd with the close proximity that no one wants to step up to the plate from the NCAC.

Even if they wanted to there's no opening until 2010 at this point.

ski · December 20, 2006, 01:05:36 PM

An adavntage is just that, it still takes planning, organization, leadership and commitment to be a winning program. Mount has all of the above, congratulations to Mount. Other schools just have to make the most of their situation, which adds up to working harder than the rest.

WOO'S WOES: Once the change in post game meals was announced, one of the parents started a fund raiser for the kids. This fund raiser provided funds for post game pizzas for the remainder of the ear. As far as ear marking any donations for athletics, that's a no-no at Wooster. It all goes in to the general fund or building program that is being solicited.

If you think that having a lower admission standard isn't an advantage, than why do so many refer to athletes as Dumb Jocks? I, for one, don,t agree with that label, but you must admit that it is a well used tag.

Kira & Jaxon's Dad · December 20, 2006, 03:02:41 PM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 20, 2006, 12:55:31 AM
Quote from: kirasdad on December 19, 2006, 10:13:02 PM
Why doesn't a team from the NCAC take a page out of UWW's book and schedule MTU in a home and home to open the season. I saw a few quotes (from Kleppe, Berez., and others) who said that they wanted to see what MTU was like so they could learn what they had to do to beat them. They didn't win, but they made it to two consecutive Stagg Bowls. Seems odd with the close proximity that no one wants to step up to the plate from the NCAC.

Even if they wanted to there's no opening until 2010 at this point.

True, but they had their chances in the past. Why did MTU have to travel to St. Louis, VA and now NY when there are 20 other D3 Football Programs in their own state is beyond me (Hint: Wooster). It would have been great to see how Tony Sutton fared against MTU in 2003 or 2004...

wally_wabash · December 20, 2006, 04:25:08 PM

Quote from: kirasdad on December 19, 2006, 10:13:02 PM
Why doesn't a team from the NCAC take a page out of UWW's book and schedule MTU in a home and home to open the season. I saw a few quotes (from Kleppe, Berez., and others) who said that they wanted to see what MTU was like so they could learn what they had to do to beat them. They didn't win, but they made it to two consecutive Stagg Bowls. Seems odd with the close proximity that no one wants to step up to the plate from the NCAC.

It's easy for you MUC guys to hint that the rest of the schools in the region are cowardly for not putting MUC on the schedule, but you guys live in a different universe than the rest of D3. Here's the reality of the situation....scheduling Mount Union is almost guaranteed to be a loss. For a team in the NCAC, it would be a regional loss which is doubly bad. When it's Selection Sunday, the committee doesn't give a flying leap who you lost to, only that you lost. Any team in the North region that is harboring any realistic thoughts of making the playoffs is foolish to schedule Mount Union because it will almost certainly remove the very thin safety net that is Pool C from anybody who slips up during the conference season. It's not about "stepping up", it's about smart scheduling. A team wins championships by beating Mount Union in December, not in September.

The axe you're swinging goes both ways here...what's stopping MUC from taking their one non-con game and going after some larger fish in a higher division? I don't regularly advocate out-of-division games, but if anybody in D3 can afford to throw a game away it's MUC. Instead of annually bitching about the fact that nobody in D3 wants to play you, why not go find a team in a higher division that will pay you a nice little guarantee for a road game and challenge your own program? Division 3 football barely moves the needle on the challenge-o-meter for MUC...it would be nice to see exactly how good they really are.

Kira & Jaxon's Dad · December 20, 2006, 04:37:38 PM

Quote from: wally_wabash on December 20, 2006, 04:25:08 PM
The axe you're swinging goes both ways here...what's stopping MUC from taking their one non-con game and going after some larger fish in a higher division? I don't regularly advocate out-of-division games, but if anybody in D3 can afford to throw a game away it's MUC. Instead of annually bitching about the fact that nobody in D3 wants to play you, why not go find a team in a higher division that will pay you a nice little guarantee for a road game and challenge your own program? Division 3 football barely moves the needle on the challenge-o-meter for MUC...it would be nice to see exactly how good they really are.

I would actually like to see MTU play a DII or DIA team to see how good they are, but I don't think it will happen. Also, a NCAC one loss team (to MTU) that wins their conference will make the playoffs won't they?

wally_wabash · December 20, 2006, 04:53:17 PM

Right. A one loss NCAC team that has lost only to Mount Union would make the playoffs via the AQ. The scenario I'm talking about would involve having said team lose once during conference play and miss out on the AQ. That team would then be at best 8-2 in-region, and would be on the outside looking in at a Pool C (the NCAC schedule doesn't help our QOWI at all). That same team at 9-1 stands a very good chance at getting invited to the tournament, hence the all-but-guaranteed loss to MUC virtually eliminates the chances of getting a Pool C.

It's the nature of the beast...it's extremely difficult to get meaningful separation of teams when 230+ teams only have 10 game resumés. The difference between having one loss and two losses is enormous. Were this basketball and we had 20 games, it would be a different story.

Ryder16 · December 20, 2006, 04:56:22 PM

yes, if it is only a loss to mt. Union then yes, but an 8-2 team with 2 in region losses will rarely if ever get a pool C bit ( see Wabash and Woo this year) a non-con loss and a conference slip up will undoubtably cost u the chance to go to week 12. So no, no Upper level NCAC school will want to play mount. However upper level d3's from out of region of d2/ 1AA schools would present a real challenge to start the year (see ashland, Youngstown state, tiffin) to name a few in state. Wittenberg has stepped up to the plate and took on dayton, as well as captial and I think they should be commended, thats getting them ready for the playoffs every year. I think if they dont get mount of cap, they would have had a good chance of seeing the second round. however meeting the one of the only teams to give mount a run in the playoffs to open the tournament is kind of a kick in the seat

Kira & Jaxon's Dad · December 20, 2006, 05:50:40 PM

As I stated before, I would like to see MTU play Dayton, Ashland, Tiffin and the like. I wonder if they have approached MTU, or if they are worried about how a loss to a D3 team would look?

Mr. Ypsi · December 20, 2006, 06:40:12 PM

Quote from: kirasdad on December 20, 2006, 05:50:40 PM
As I stated before, I would like to see MTU play Dayton, Ashland, Tiffin and the like. I wonder if they have approached MTU, or if they are worried about how a loss to a D3 team would look?

That IS the sticking point. No 'higher' division team that is not absolutely certain they would handily beat MUC is going to risk a defeat that to MOST (non-d3) people would be so embarassing that it could cost a coach his job. From their perspective, there simply is NO upside to playing the Raiders!

scotty · December 20, 2006, 06:54:55 PM

Quote from: wooscot on December 19, 2006, 02:13:33 PM
Lancer98,

Average career? The jury's out on that one!

Budget cuts caused Woo to cancel JV games and not feed players after away games? Wow...maybe I should start earmarking my donations to some sort of football fund. Another advantage I think Mt has is that Keheres in the AD. Plus, as somebody already mentioned, the success of the football program really brings a lot of publicity to the school, which I am absolutely positive results in $$$ coming into the school (donations, grants, student applications, etc...). I don't care how nice of a financial aid package a school can offer, you have to assume a lot of this kids are paying at least half tuition if not more. That's a lot of jack just to suit and watch your team win championships year after year.

are you serious about not feeding the Wooster players...it's the little things that sway decisions on a $38,000 education...

ScotLass · December 20, 2006, 10:39:06 PM

Since the cost of attendance includes a meal plan.....one would think those meal funds would pay to feed the players...since they didn't have access to food services when traveling away. DUHHH...

frank uible · December 21, 2006, 07:10:51 AM

One insidious aspect of the current playoff system is that it may inhibit a college from forming the "best" schedule for its team.

Kira & Jaxon's Dad · December 21, 2006, 07:18:40 AM

Quote from: ScotLass on December 20, 2006, 10:39:06 PM
Since the cost of attendance includes a meal plan.....one would think those meal funds would pay to feed the players...since they didn't have access to food services when traveling away. DUHHH...

Great point. Seems a bit bush league if this is true.

wally_wabash · December 21, 2006, 09:57:54 AM

Quote from: frank uible on December 21, 2006, 07:10:51 AM
One insidious aspect of the current playoff system is that it may inhibit a college from forming the "best" schedule for its team.

I suppose this all depends on what your definition of "best" is. If by "best" you mean that every team should be scheduling every powerhouse it can get it's hands on, then no, the current system doesn't necessarily encourage that. We can send boatloads of praise Witt's way for the schedule they've played the last couple of years, but the reality is that schedule has essentially cost them any chance at all of making the field as an at large and any chance at all of hosting any games in the instance that they do make the field.

Personally, I think the "best" schedule a team can play is a schedule that is challenging, but winnable. Winning breeds confidence...I've never understood why teams in any sport sign up to get their butts handed to them by a team that they have no chance against. This happens frequently in hoops...you see quite a few D3's playing DI teams and I just don't get what either team gains from it. I'm digressing a bit...the point is that running out and scheduling Mount Union isn't always the best thing for a team to do, otherwise Mount Union would have teams lining up to play them. Like I said earlier, you don't get jack for beating Mount Union in September...the risk is far greater than the reward for potential playoff teams.