FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Superfoot Wallace]

Should think those schools that adopt a policy such as that presented in the aforementioned Yahoo article would experience greater competition amongst academically superior athletes.

As for an affect on DIII athletics the effect would seem to bring in more competent athletes, though intention is not always discernible.  Should think the compeition would promote academics over athletics, but if a positive sum game can be found as opposed to a zero sum game, then potentially a win-win situation might occur.

Heralding ourselves as the height of academic athletics, this type of competitive measure should help the cause.   Though our NCAA division is not the end all to be all of academic athletics as evidenced by Davidson fording new territory, the principles espoused should surely play a part in the new paradigm.

signed,
Nash's Little Brother

[BashBacker#16]

I misspoke, in an earlier post about the NCAC not allowing balls for Spring practices, they are able to use balls.  Sorry.

On another thought pertaining to Spring football (that kicked off Sunday at Wabash).... at DePauw - how do you think Matt Walker is doing coaching DPU baseball, running Spring football, recruiting football & baseball, and trying to hire an offensive coordinator - since Kit Cartwright resigned.  That is great stuff.

[smedindy]

I think that the Davidson model could cause some ripples as schools of that ilk (which the NCAC is - never mind Davidson's D-1 status) will be competing for those students and the opportunity for the middle class students to graduate debt free will be appealing.

Of course, it will take a big ol' endowment to pull off.

[smedindy]

I just checked the Davidson web site. They are definitely targeting the same students that most of the NCAC is - obviously not a direct competition since it's in the Carolinas and not in the Midwest, but again, it's a ripple effect amongst institutions.

I am curious by the timing. I wonder if Davidson is not having a good year in admissions or in deposits....

[frank uible]

For comparison purposes check Davidson in the U.S. News & World Report rankings (tied for 10th among liberal arts colleges) while keeping in mind that it has an enrollment of about 1700 (roughly 50/50) and plays football in the non-scholarship DIA Pioneer Football League (won a little better than 1/2 of its games last year), one of whose members (San Diego) last year severely thumped Yale (the Ivy co-champ) but another of whose members (Butler) last year was thumped badly by Albion. For most other sports Davidson competes in the scholarship DIA Southern Conference (its basketball team went to the DI NCAAs and put up a credible showing in that tourney vs. Ohio State in 2007). I'm not sure how Davidson manages to be so strong academically and still compete athletically as it does, all with its relatively small enrollment. Maybe a more detailed look at its tuition and financial aid structure would tell me something - it claims an endowment in excess of 400 million.

[smedindy]

Davidson has always been one of the foremost Liberal Arts colleges in the South. They also have had a strong basketball tradtion, so staying in D-1 was always attractive to them so they have a separate athletic foundation as well.

Without football scholarships, and with so many schools within a short distance, I think costs can be at a minumum for most sports.

The farthest the baseball team travels is Auburn, Alabama. The men's soccer team never ventured farther than Virginia or South Carolina. The volleyball team had one flight, to Dallas, for an invitational.

Even basketball was mostly bus rides. The women's team provided cannon fodder at a tourney at Ohio State (with expenses paid, I bet) and they also took a trip to Washington State to play Eastern Washington and Gonzaga. The men's team played at a pre-season tourney in Ann Arbor (expenses paid by the John Thompson foundation??) and then had one trip to Missouri to face the Tigers. Otherwise, they stayed close to home - because no one will play them.

Football had two flights, I would gather - as they played at Valpo and at Drake (Hello, Des Moines). The Pioneer doesn't really operate a round-robin conference.

So, I can totally see how they can be D-1 with a separate athletic foundation and low travel costs.

[wabco]

The whole financial aid issue ... is interesting.  For instance ... some colleges devote much more to the per student cost of education than others.  I believe (on pain of being incorrect at the exact percentage) Wabash endows about 50% of the per student cost with the balance constituting the tuition charge.  Some of the eastern achools and other high profile schools endow much less ... hence the higher tuition.  Then they offer financial aid and other merit aid to recruit.  Question:  better to charge high and offer a lot or charge more reasonable in the first place ("reasonable" being a relative term).

Why not do away with financial aid and devote all available moneys to the endowment of the education ... result: ... for the better endowed schools ... a tuition which compares favorably with public institutions.  Now there would be a revolution.  Problem is not in its enactment ... it is in its perception:  people think if the price is higher it is more exclusive, valuable etc.  Hence Vandy charges a lot verses subsidizes a lot.

Davidson ... I believe is simply grabbing headlines.  First you need to know exactly how much loan money is being replaced.  Then you need to know whether they are reducing other areas (examples: merit aid, aid devoted for minorities or skills etc.) to subsudize.  You also need to know the inner workings of their admissions ... for example: are they losing in the student recruitment circles and need some sort of jumpstart?

The much larger threat to Div III type smaller schools is not the Davidsons but rather the public schools granting aid and also creating these advertized specialty schools specifically aimed at combating brain/talent drain to the privates.  One way this is combatted is by merit aid ... this permits recruiting wars for talented middle class students.

To paraphrase political punditry ... its about the endowment stupid. The schools with it can fashion aid programs (whether it is lower overall cost, financial aid in whatever form, and/or merit aid) to get the type students they want .... and compete reasonably well for students who are smart or are poor and also just happen to be athletes.  Playing the "no loan" card is simply a variant which gains publicity.  How long they will do this ... another interesting question.  Also ... another thought ... the student has no skin in the game.

As for me ... Go Little Giants.  Keep the tuition as low as reasonably possible, grant as much financial aid to qualified students in whatever form as if fair, and continue to merit aid those who demonstrate quality and accomplishment in those areas.  AND ... for year after this one coming one ... find another outstanding QB please.   

[aueagle]

DEEP POCKETS at Davidson...............

[smedindy]

Davidson's endowment is just about 30 million more than Wabash's.

[frank uible]

But Wabash has half the enrollment of Davidson. Endowment dollars per student is the key financial measure.

[smedindy]

Yes, but I don't know if their athletic foundation rolls up into the endowment figure reported in the VSE report by the CAE.

They report at $421 million endowment on their web site. So perhaps their athletic endowment is held and reported separately.

[frank uible]

I'm almost absolutely sure that Davidson's endowment figure does not contain any funds limited to athletic use since those funds are not for the benefit of the student body in general.

[WallyFS4]

Changing the subject.  Does anyone know how Marian College starting their football effected  Wabash recruiting?  Here is the list of recruits for Marian. http://athletics.marian.edu/fbrecruitlist.pdf  As always.

WABASH ALWAYS FIGHTS!

[smedindy]

Lots of transfers. I was surprised they didn't have more freshmen from Roncalli and Chatard, and I don't think they had any from Cathedral or any other of the Indianapolis Catholic schools. They had some Ben Davis kids. Hmmm....

[Li'l Giant]

Wow, that is a lot of transfers. Oh, and can any of you Hoosiers tell the poor dumb Texan what a "Core 40" diploma is?