FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Pat Coleman]

Witt Preview

http://www.d3football.com/preview.php?id=1096&year=2007

It was posted.

[Superfoot Wallace]

We'll find out pretty quick if we have a championship caliber team, because Franklin will give us all we want, I am certain.  It will be an excellent non-conference test, as I would expect them to be one of the favorites in the HCAC.

That is the great thing about the AQ, whether an Allegheny beats a W&L, Wabash beats Franklin or Witt beats a Capital, the conference champ is going to the dance.

Think there is greater confidence is scheduling given these parameters, while at the same time greater innovation as evidenced by the UAA agreement.  I am a great proponent of the UAA agreement.  Is reminiscent of the 3-2 programs NCAC schools used to hold with CWRU during their NCAC tenure.  When looking at the graduate programs available with the UAA schools, one has to wonder if there is an anticipation of 3-2 programs. 

Allegheny markets or labels themselves as a school for pre-Phd preparation.  Should think there is a great linkup there with a school such a Chicago and their world renowned economics or physics programs.

Should there be favorable admissions practices to say medical school at Washington University Saint Louis.

What about a student that has taken full advantage of say the Russian or other hard to come by foreign language protocols at Witt paired with one of the newly minted science BS programs, could this student potentially pencil an MBA from Carnegie Mellon in a matter of five years.

With the pre-professional courses of study and the degrees of specialization being realized in our world, should think CWRU's engineering program, if only for the thirty credits of hard science required for the patent bar and a minor is highly desirable for the NCAC's future lawyers.

Have actually gone on this little tirade, that I might point out OWU would be a nice little wing t feeder program for CMU.     After all, we all know what is most important right?

Ummm, football?

Difficult to discuss Brandeis and UAA others that don't play football, and believe the UAA deal to be gridirion specific, but don't know much about either.

Backtracking to the AQ statement that popped this jack in the box out of my gourd, think the confidence of an AQ lends confidence to scheduling, a must for the bottom heavy NCAC.  And while there have been some gripes by the Bash faithful regarding the UAA deal, there is that quagmire of the Monon Bell that is specific to your institution not the conference.  Scheduling immobility while further hemmed for Wabash by the UAA deal is not the conferences device but Wabash's circumstance.

Finally, I can get to the point I have most wanted relayed, answered, obviated or at least discussed  , should Depauw ever make the playoffs (heaven forbid!) and face Wabash, would the Bell change hands were the regular season winner not the post season winner.

Is the game itself a regular season circuit or is the rivalry itself the circuit?

That last little point was brought to you by my good friends from Trinity over on the SCAC board, and the strangeness of Depauw and SCAC scheduling and coaching rotations over the past couple years.  That and all the ramblings about Texas over here. 

Somebody pass the baked beans and Sweeeeet Baby Rays this way please!  Mesquite? wth

signed,
Pat Hill Wannabe

[wally_wabash]

Finally, I can get to the point I have most wanted relayed, answered, obviated or at least discussed  , should Depauw ever make the playoffs (heaven forbid!) and face Wabash, would the Bell change hands were the regular season winner not the post season winner.

Is the game itself a regular season circuit or is the rivalry itself the circuit?

That's a good question and one that I've discussed/debated with my friends for years.  I actually oscillate between yay and nay on this one...there are great points to be made on both sides of this coin.  I can't imagine that in the 75 years of the Bell's prominence in this rivalry that this exact scenario hasn't been discussed by the two schools. 

Fortunately, DePauw wil never beat Trinity, so the point is likely moot.   

[wabashcpa]

My initial thought is that since a playoff game isn't a "Bell" game, that the Bell wouldn't be part of the spoils.  But, it also seems that having the Bell would ring hollow (haha) if the most recent contest was a loss.

Should Wabash & DePauw make the playoffs simultaneously, this would be a slam-dunk matchup.  Who knows - we may find out the answer to that question this year.

[Li'l Giant]

Like Wally I see both sides of this but my personal opinion is if the two teams step onto a football field to play a game the Bell ought to be at stake.

[DPU3619]

Like Wally I see both sides of this but my personal opinion is if the two teams step onto a football field to play a game the Bell ought to be at stake.

I second the motion. 

[Superfoot Wallace]

Like Wally I see both sides of this but my personal opinion is if the two teams step onto a football field to play a game the Bell ought to be at stake.

I second the motion. 

Think the Depauw fullback encountered at the gym today already seconded the motion.  A quorum?

With the return of Marks at tailback and an added year of experience for Spud Dick, expect the other Tigers will give the Little Giants a run for their money.  Rumor is they even have the same coach in consecutive years, whoda thunk.

Looked at the rushing totals for the Bell game last year, and no offense Wabash, but those totals are atrocious.  Good thing you guys run the Crawfordsville version of Air Coryell.

The run game might be the only thing holding Bash back from being a legitimate national title contender.  Should think the size of that offensive line would open some holes.  What's the deal?  Too much commitment to the pass game and the line favor heels in the pass protection game or the running backs aren't quite there?

That 41-14 debacle was witness to in Crawfordsville a few years ago showed the Bash pass offense is more capably supplemented by a weak belly counter game.  Thing about the weak belly counter game as opposed to the stretch and other veer variations, the back makes the play with his feet as opposed to linemen opening gaping holes with power and trap plays.  A block at the hole, a block through the hole and a block in the hole as the addage goes.  While Franklin might also be considered a four wide team, think the run game on the southside tilts flank with intent as opposed to tilting flank as a countermeasure to the upfield pass rush.

Rupp v Huff is gonna be one heckuva ballgame.  Potentially the two best traditional-conventional passing quarterbacks in the land.

In the meantime, think the evolution of the short punt formation, whether nominated as pistol or A was on center stage when MUC played the backup in the Stagg.

Wondering if the Carmel quarterback recruited by Witt is an indication of some evolution at Witt.  The secondary is definitely depleted in Springfield and think Huffman was more heavily recruited as a safety.  While a quarterback is the last athlete to expect two way play from, maybe there is some room to wiggle as the short punt A can get two quarterbacks on the field and spell one for some defensive duty.

While Witt has moved away from pure smashmouth MO in lineplay over the last few years, favoring vision shielding with Himalayans and Appalachians in the trenches, a two way quarterback sure would satiate some of the clamor for grit in the Witt Pantheon.

Okay, okay forget it.  A two way quarterback?  I'll just sit and wait for my sleeveless jacket now.

Strangely enough, the returning Witt rushers are sort of an anomaly.  The tailback is more smashmouth short yardage type and the fullback appears to be glider with some good ball catching skills.

Good front seven returning for Witt on defense, but the NCAC defensive favorite has to be Bash with the return of Adi and some seasoning for his once newbie defensive cohorts.  At least the guards are back for Witt.  The shortest route to the backfield is at the zero.

signed,
Wordsworth

[wally_wabash]

Looked at the rushing totals for the Bell game last year, and no offense Wabash, but those totals are atrocious.  Good thing you guys run the Crawfordsville version of Air Coryell.

The run game might be the only thing holding Bash back from being a legitimate national title contender.  Should think the size of that offensive line would open some holes.  What's the deal?  Too much commitment to the pass game and the line favor heels in the pass protection game or the running backs aren't quite there?

That 41-14 debacle was witness to in Crawfordsville a few years ago showed the Bash pass offense is more capably supplemented by a weak belly counter game.  Thing about the weak belly counter game as opposed to the stretch and other veer variations, the back makes the play with his feet as opposed to linemen opening gaping holes with power and trap plays.  A block at the hole, a block through the hole and a block in the hole as the addage goes.  While Franklin might also be considered a four wide team, think the run game on the southside tilts flank with intent as opposed to tilting flank as a countermeasure to the upfield pass rush.

A few reasons why the run game was atrocious for Wabash during last year's Bell:

- Wabash's run game wasn't very good all year.  The LGs had nary a 100-yard rushing game from any individual all season.

- DePauw's rush D was quite good (as it has been historically).  There is nobody in C'ville sad to see Dustin Hertel graduate. 

- The running surface on Bell day was, shall I say, not ideal.  You'll notice that DePauw didn't run too well either despite having an outstanding running back.  The difference in the game, I think, is that DePauw wouldn't budge from their plan to pound Marks between the hashes while Wabash pretty quickly abandoned the run when it proved fruitless.  It's not often that you see a team throw the ball 49 times in the conditions that were present at last year's Bell game. 

Going back to the 41-14 game in '03...that was a different time.  CC had at his disposal two of the best backs that ever played at Wabash.  Lafitte was nothing short of magnificent during the '03 season and the senior used to spell him was only the school's all time leading rusher.  It stands to reason that the run game would figure more prominently in '03 than it did in '06 where the running backs consisted of an oft injured Don Juan Brown and a converted safety. 

I think that the backfield will see an upgrade this year with Sobecki stepping in and Bobby Kimp coming in as the change of pace back.  I don't know much about Fenton Blew (the transfer from AFA), but he may contribute as well.  In any case, Wabash will actually have true running backs lining up behind Huff this year which I think has to be an improvement. 

We're in agreement that Wabash has to be able to run more effectively if they are to make a deep run this year, but I think last year was easily the low water mark with respect to rushing in the CC era.

[BashBacker#16]

Run vs. Pass in the Chris Creighton era may surprise you a bit knowing the numbers our QBs have put up...from Knott to Harbaugh to Huff...

2006:  617 total plays, 286 rushes and 331 passes (46% of the total plays were rushes)
2005:  (remember 12 games that year) 872 total plays, 465 rushes and 407 passes (53% of the total plays were rushes) 
2004:  692 total plays, 389 rushes and 303 passes (56% of the total plays were rushes)

Wabash vs. DePauw '07 (are we really talking about this game already and it is July!) definitely looks to tilt to Wabash.  CC is 5-1 in Bell games (only loss to Billy Lynch), Huff & Co. should be incredibly strong matched against a Dannie D that lost a lot of experience & talent (Hertel, Sylvester, the other D-back), and the Bash D should be back to Neathery standards.  Surprise of the year...keep an eye on Andy Deig (Sr. Captain) and other ILB with Pynenberg.  In fact, watch Deig in last year's Bell game!  He could have a massive year knowing teams will have to key on Adi.

[Schwami]

Like Wally I see both sides of this but my personal opinion is if the two teams step onto a football field to play a game the Bell ought to be at stake.

I agree.  A playoff game would certainly count in the head-to-head record, and we seem to pay more attention to the overall head-to-head record than just the record since the Monon Bell was added to the mix.  Because it is a rivalry game, whenever and wherever Wabash and DePauw meet in football, the Monon Bell should be at stake.  As an aside, could the NCAA object to this?  Would it detract from the fact that such a game would be an NCAA playoff game?

[wally_wabash]

The logistics of a Wabash/DePauw rematch in the playoffs would be insane.  Could you imagine a Bell game the week after the Bell game?  Or even two weeks later?  How many tickets would the NCAA allot for such a game because both games would draw WAY over the listed capacity of the stadiums and limiting tickets to anything less than what they sold for the Bell game would probably cause a riot.  Such a game would be insane for the host institution....but it would be sooooo much fun for the fans. 

[Pat Coleman]

The host school determines the number of tickets sold, but an NCAA formula determines the percentage the host must offer the opposing school.

For Bell festivities that take place after the game, shoot, I don't think the NCAA would have much jurisdiction, per se.

[wabco]

Reality check

One Bell Game per year ... it occurs the first part of November ... the event takes a month or two of planning by schools experienced in planning for it ... it has a life of its own ... it has its own focus.

One or two weeks later, should the two schools meet in the playoffs ... the scene is different, the focus is different, different people will attend from those who planned and attended the Bell Game ... the Bell probably will be present ... rung constantly by the side which won it the week or two prior ... it will leave with that self same team/side ... in the event that side was the loser ... the claim will simply be we beat the dirty buggers who got lucky the week before ... should that side win ... it will simply re-affirm the superiority already believed.  Either way ... it becomes fodder for T-shirts and the lore of the game the next November.

[Superfoot Wallace]

For Bell festivities that take place after the game, shoot, I don't think the NCAA would have much jurisdiction, per se.

To a degree I believe this is the correct statement.  The NCAA is hemmed on discovery powers moreso than jurisidiction.  Gathered from listening to NCAA reps speak at a symposium, believe the NCAA borrows most discovery powers from the IRS.  Public record is public record but discovery is something quite different from jursidiction, or so I have been led to believe.  Sure there are some issues to be had with regards to the public versus private debate, federalism and states' rights as well as civil rights.  The recent Alaska first amendment cases could be read as something other than purely first amendment cases.

the Bell probably will be present ... rung constantly by the side which won it the week or two prior ... it will leave with that self same team/side ... in the event that side was the loser ... the claim will simply be we beat the dirty buggers who got lucky the week before ... should that side win ... it will simply re-affirm the superiority already believed.  Either way ... it becomes fodder for T-shirts and the lore of the game the next November.

Think there is a prohibition on noisemakers in the playoffs that differs from conference rules.  Wasn't there an issue with a MIAC team regarding noisemakers in the playoffs this past post-season.  Not sure whether the onus is on the complaining team to assert the no noisemaker clause, though that seemed to be the tone of initiative regarding the MIAC issue as discussed.

signed,
Charlatan

[wabco]

I think you may be correct about noise makers ... yet ... I suspect ... at least from the Wabash perspective ... were the forces of good (a/k/a the Little Giants)  to possess the Bell ... somehow, someway ... a ring or two would be heard.  This is especially true if the Dannies have to trip up to Hollett to receive their second beating of the year.