FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[oldguy]

Boy Wally, you really have a grudge against Witt.  Its funny how much your hatred seeps through in all your posts.  Remember, its just a game.

[wally_wabash]

It's not a grudge as much as it's a general dislike of all things Wittenberg. 

My dislike for Wittenberg aside, the point stands.  Witt hasn't been the team to beat in our conference for four years now.  Statements like "the only program that should be beating [enter your favorite team here] is Wittenberg" are absurd.  Wittenberg is no longer head and shoulders above the rest of the NCAC as they were in and around the turn of the century.  If OWU thinks that Witt is the only team that should be beating them, then they are giving themselves way, way too much credit.  When was the last time OWU won an NCAC championship?  I'll save you trouble of looking it up.  It was 1989.  That was so long ago, that the quarterback of the team that OWU shared that conference title with (that's right, they've never won an NCAC title outright) has since graduated, bounced around to a few coaching gigs, and won his own NCAC title as a head coach.  I'd like to see OWU string together a few seasons in a row that are better than 5-5 before they start openly dismissing the rest of the competition in this conference. 

History will show you that not only is OWU not consistently playing second fiddle to Witt (or whoever the reigning NCAC alpha-team might be), they're usually third or fourth or worse.  So this noise about how Wittenberg is the only team that should be beating OWU is bogus...OWU has been getting beat by a lot of NCAC teams other than Wittenberg for quite some time. 

[aueagle]

Thanks for taking the bait wally...I hadn't caught anything all day till I hooked you......... But, if Witt isn't everything, ie; best winning D3 program, best tradition, and so on, why do they get so much discussion on this board? Because they are THE program to shoot for in the NCAC. Whether they have an up or down year, the Witt aura is there. If I don't expect to win, I won't. If I don't want to be the best, I won't. Wally, I've stated for over two years that the Bishops are average, from alumni/fan participation, to the year records, etc. You pointing out the NEVER'S and the MEDIOCRITY is just somethjing that we Bishop faithful live with. The Wittenberg grudge, for your information, goes way back to the OAC days for OWU. I want CHAMPIONSHIPS and to *!@@$ with everyone else. V-Mac: OWU is glad to have your support. But, I , for one, would cut Coach "H" is a NY minute and go full throttle to my goal. By the way, your National Championship team was one of the best I had seen and one of the best D3 Championship games  too. GO BISHOPS

[DarkSide-D]

Who was the Quarterback for OWU when they won a share of the title?

[bashbrother]

Au -

The point is their aura is gone. (maybe not for you) Sure they have a history of winning, but that too is gone.  They have not won the NCAC since 2001 and they are 0-2 for the first time since 1953 (52 years).  There is a decent chance they will be 0-3 by Saturday evening. 

I think of most the Gator fans,Wooster fans and all the Wabash posters would agree with me.  They have turned into just another "Good" team in the NCAC.......

The strange thing you said was that you expect to win....but you expect to loose to Witt.  Thats confidence...when you beat them last year. hmmmmm.

[wally_wabash]

You'll never beat Witt consistently if you're awestruck by their history.  Witt's aura exists because you perpetuate it.  Witt's program today isn't what it was five years ago...my point here is that we need to stop giving Wittenberg credit in the present for what they've done in the past.  When you say things like Witt is the only program that OWU should be losing to, you're missing the boat entirely.  Why do you persist in thinking that Witt is the bird that rules this roost?  Have you not been paying any attention to this conference in the last few years?  

[DarkSide-D]

Sorry Wally, I misread your post.  disregard my question.

I do agree with your comments Wally, Witt is definately not the beast it once was.  I attribute that to the loss they sustained to the bashers in 02.  ever since then they have been down, and the new powers to be have been kicking them while they have their chance. (And I personally love that fact!!!) 

Sorry to redirect the conversation here.  (I do NOT believe that OWU is the team to beat this year, or any year)  But what about Gheny.  Granted they are 1-1.  But what about the way both games ended, in OT.  What does that say for their season.  Being blessed with a schedule where the recent powers are coming to their house to play.  I personally think that if they can make the games close, the odds are in their favor.  I realize that the wallys and tigers, and even myself a scottie, would like to think it wont be close, but mudville is mudville.

And lets not forget 03 when they won the title, how their non conference record showed.  What are other comments, if any, on this possibility?

[bashbrother]

The great thing about Gheny, is they always give themselves a chance to win with their hardnosed play.  Their coaches and players never take a game off.

I wish Gheny good luck this weekend. 

[wally_wabash]

DD, I think you make a good point about the '02 game in Springfield.  That game was not only one of the most important wins in Wabash program history (hence the subsequent celebration that Witt fans just don't or won't understand), but it was pretty important in the course of NCAC history as well.  When Wabash joined the conference in 2000 I had the sense that Witt sort of had the rest of the conference by the short and curlies...basically the deal was when you played Witt you showed up, put your pads on, and then took your whoopin' and liked it because that's just the way it was.  In that '02 game, when Wabash didn't just take their whoopin' and actually dropped the house on the wicked witch of the east, it kind of served notice to the rest of the conference that it could actually be done.  And I think the conference has been a much, much better place since Witt's captor-like grip on the rest of us has been broken. 

[The_Bishop]

Vince,

I certainly remember your stance 2 years ago regarding OWU, you've always been a stand-up guy on this board and not simply because of this one point.

AUE,

Good to see you back my friend but you continue to beat a tired, tired drum.  Seriously, you are beginning to sound like you simply have an axe to grind.  When the 8-2 and 9-1 OWU squads of a few years back were playing great ball and lost to two very solid Witt teams both years, you were jumping up and down on the Capone/Reid bandwagon and lauding the players' performance without a word about the coaching.  And justifiably so, as those teams had phenomenal athletes, but the last time I checked the coaches were still calling the offensive and defensive plays from the sideline those years.  And nothing about the coaching last year; after starting out 0-4 the team wins 5 in a row and plays for the NCAC championship against Wooster in week 10.  So I guess what I'm trying to figure out is how you envision this apocalypse falling over Delaware by installing a new coaching staff.

[aueagle]

bishop: Is the current staff the one's to take the program to a "MUC" level? And, your right about when Matt and the boys were playing; I was pumped about the records being set and the drive for the title, BUT, I was never on board with the offense or for that matter "H". Last season, c'mon, I was all over the staff and play calling.  Ax to grind? I want the best for the university and athletic teams. After the men's basketball team won the National Championship, I was thinking dynasty; and looked what happened. The program will only seek the level of expectations and NEVER where it should be, NCAC Champions & National Champions, as long as people are content  with the current situation. You, for one, should want & expect great things from the program.  Tell me, that the current staff is the one to take the Bishops to the next level, and that your are content with ALMOST winning conference titles. Iam not. GO BISHOPS

[scotty]

aueagle, when you refer to "MUC" i presume you are referring to Mount Union...i find it hard to believe that OWU or Wooster or Witt can get to that level...am i naive or just ignorant?...

[lancer98]

When Wabash joined the conference in 2000 I had the sense that Witt sort of had the rest of the conference by the short and curlies...basically the deal was when you played Witt you showed up, put your pads on, and then took your whoopin' and liked it because that's just the way it was.  In that '02 game, when Wabash didn't just take their whoopin' and actually dropped the house on the wicked witch of the east, it kind of served notice to the rest of the conference that it could actually be done. 

What?  Are you serious?

I all my years playing nor I or the rest of are team felt that Witt was this unbeatable team.  We knew they were good, but year in and year out we were competitive with them and had opportunities to win the game in the 4th quarter in 3 of the 4 years I was there.  A play here a play there and we could have easily won those games.  I would hardly say we were their to take a beating and go home.  We did much more than that even though we did not win the game.

So don't try to say Witt program has fallen just because Wabash beat them in 2002.  I'm sure nobody else needed that year to think that could compete with Witt.  I sure as hell didn't.  I had graduated by then.

So to the rest of the conference we should all thank Wabash for their year in 2002 showing us that we could comptete with Witt.  Because if it wasn't for them nobody would have beaten them in the years after that.  Give me a break.

[aueagle]

scotty: Mount Union College - MUC. If you can't see being a champion, then you won't. I think OWU can, with the right push. Again, the 1st phase was the new AD. I hope the rest will fall into place. GO BISHOPS

[BashBacker#16]

Lancer - I don't think Wally was implying that that was what specifically what knocked Witt off the hill but you cannot deny how damaging that year was to Witt's psyche - within in the program and to other teams in the conference.  Then, after knocking them off at their place, Bash beats them a 2nd time on their home turf.  That's a pretty big statement any way you look at it.

Darkside - I think Gheny will have some say in the conference but do not think they will have the offense to win it all.  Just my take.  Question for you:  If Bash takes care of business leading up to the game in Meadville (playing excellent D, scoring big points, etc.) would you favor Wabash or Gheny?  I am just curious.  I think Bash has the offense to avoid a low scoring affair that Gheny has won the last 2 years (7-6 in '03 and 16-10 in OT).  I lot of football leading up to that game without question.  This was only a hypothetical.  Are you going to the Bash/Woo game this year?

BashDad - Duessing will be greeted by a pretty good free safety that will be back in the lineup at WashU...