FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[wally_wabash]

Yes, SI did a big feature on the rivalry for the 100th Bell game in 1993. 

Heist stories are great...certainly a highlight of Bell lore. 

[frank uible]

I attended a few Wash U games in the 70s and 80s. The team was playing OK, but only OK, but the attendance was weak. Perhaps too many alternatives in St. Louis.

[BashBacker#16]

FormerD3DB,

WashU is still favored to win their league.  Losses to Wabash (23-7) and Mount Union (33-7) wouldn't necessarily equate to a "down year."  Their D is pretty good, especially their front 4.

On the SI article, it's displayed in the Allen Center.  2 things that made that such a great article...1)  Wabash won; the article's cover photo (classic pic carrying the Bell on their shoulders) was 2 Betas (Sean Lyons & Andy Dorrel - now head coach at Culver Military Academy) and 2)  The photo of the Dannie with the bloody nose.

Did anyone else notice the Witt release on the Alma game...even the Tigers are reaching to compare this year to Gheny's '03.  Who would have thought???  OldGuy - any Holmes updates?

[oldguy]

Darkside,

Witt's record against Wooster in the 80's was 3-0.


No info on Holmes.  I can't imagine he'd be out much more than 3 more weeks.  If he had the Witt team doctor(also the Cinncinnati Reds team doctor) do the surgery, he should be good to go soon.  Then again, I'm not a doctor, so....

[wally_wabash]

I did notice that BB16.  The Springfield fishwrap has also invoked Allegheny '03.  

I think we need to stop with the "Remember 2003" mantra.  2003 and 2005 are two completely different situations.  First, the league was weaker in 2003 than it is in 2005.  Both Wabash and Witt were very young (remember, both schools graduated a ton of seniors from their playoff teams the year before), Wooster was still emerging, and OWU was pretty bad.  If there was going to be a year where a team could go 0-3 and then run the NCAC table, it would have been that year.  In 2005, OWU is greatly improved, Wabash is very experienced and playing very well, and neither Witt nor Allegheny have the experience that Allegheny had in '03.  

Second, that Allegheny team in '03 was playing some semblance of defense.  Yes, that defense was aided by a couple of mud games early in the season, but the fact remains that Allegheny '03 could stop somebody on occasion.  Wittenberg just can't do that and you just can't win 4 out of 4 key games (which they'll have to do to win the conference) on the hope that you can simply outscore the other guy.  It won't happen.  

So yes, it has happened (recently) that a team started 0-3 and won the conference.  But the circumstances around the Allegheny '03 situation and the Witt '05 situation are much, much different.  

[SaintsFAN]

Oldguy,

If you are relying on Dr. Kremcheck to put Holmes back on the field, then I'd say you won't get him back this season---just look at his work with Griffey, Jr the past few seasons

[BashDad]

I am also not a medical doctor, but, from experience, I know a collar bone break is not something you can hurry to heal.  While, eventually, bone mass along the break will make the point of fracture stronger than before--the percentage of re-breaks is high, particularly if the area is exposed to trauma too soon.  And--there is little you can do to protect this area of the body from re-injury.  As I said when Holmes was first diagnosed, it is doubtful that he will be back 100% before the last third of the season.  Any medical doctors out there who can comment on this?   

[BashDad]

Again, comments concerning the Wash U crowd last Saturday in St. Louis--students were on campus, indeed, the campus was buzzing.  At least 50% of those fans in attendance from Wash U. were students.

I was surprised by the small crowd in my first visit to this fine school.  To me, the answer lies in the fact that football is just not that important to the overall campus.  Just my impression.

[DarkSide-D]

Oldguy

Thats my Point.  Woo has never faired well against Witt.

Hopefully, that tradition is in the process of changeing.

[lancer98]

Concerning Holmes and his collarbone, he will be taking a big chance if he tries to come back in three weeks.  Coming from someone who has broken the same bone 3 times with one re-break, different places I might add, I should know a thing on two about broken collarbones.

Although I am no doctor, if he comes back in three weeks and takes anywhere too a hard hit on that area, he will be done.  Trust me, I tried that once and paid the price.

[lancer98]

I know everyone on this board has been big on jumping on the "lets hound Witt" bandwagon, but I still think it is a little early to discount them in the conference race. 

Believe me, I am no fan of them but consider who they played.  It could be said that any one of the three teams they played could possbily be the best team in this conference.  I don't know much about Alma and I know Cap laid an egg last week at Otterbein, but Cap practically gave that game away.  Look at the box score for that game.

And look how well they played against Dayton and how well Murray ran the ball against them.  They have weapons that no other team in this conference has on offense even without Holmes.

There defense has been pretty bad but I stil am going to reserve judgement until they get into the conference.

I mean what do we have to judge Woo and Wabash against besides four cupcakes.  At least 'Gheny and Witt anted up and played some damn good teams even though they are 0-3.  Really they are 0-0,  becuase if they win the conference they are in the playoffs.  It's as simple as that

Let's just hope many of us aren't eating our words once again.

[Vince McMahon]

Westminster's not "damn good", but thanks for that vote of confidence in my team.

[BashLaw]

Sorry if I missed this, but did Holmes break the collar bone on his throwing or non-throwing shoulder?  It makes a huge difference in the time to come back.  I broke my left collar bone in high school (non throwing shoulder) and only had to miss a week.  Doctors told me it was a huge risk to play with it and it hurt like hell, but it didn't affect my throwing.  Still hurts sometimes now though.  I couldn't imagine coming back in less than a month if it is the throwing shoulder.  Also, collar bone breaks differ drastically in severity.  Some, like mine heal on their own; some need help.  All depends.

[wally_wabash]

There defense has been pretty bad but I stil am going to reserve judgement until they get into the conference.

Their defense was terrible last year also.  Witt got shredded by Cap, Wabash, Wooster, and OWU last year.  I think most people who follow this conference just assumed that last year was an aberration and Witt would get back to playing respectable defense this season...and as such, they were voted as preseason favorites and the majority of voices on this board agreed.  As it turns out, Witt has not gotten better defensively.  In fact, they got lit up by Capital even more than they did last year.  Yes, they've played a tough schedule but you have to look at how they've played.  0-3 against that schedule isn't bad (it might even be respectable) if you're losing close games.  0-3 against that schedule while you're getting outgained by over 200 yards per game and outscored by almost 30 points per game is a completely different deal. 

[oldguy]

I believe it was his non-throwing shoulder, but I could be wrong.  I stand by my 3 weeks.  Considering it is his last year of football, I think he will do anything he can to play as soon as he can.  I don't think it will break again after 5 weeks since he has the plate in there.  If its only a pain issue, he'll be back.