FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Raider 68]

I would love nothing more than for that to be the case, Raider, but the NCAC is tied up with the UAA in a scheduling agreement.  All of the NCAC schools are scheduling UAA schools for two games every year.  I have to believe that once the league office decides how many teams are going to be in the league, they'll get back to a 7-game conference schedule (it will be six conference games in 2010, but every team is playing another NCAC team in a game that counts as non-conference for some reason that makes no sense whatsoever).  So 7 conference games plus the two UAA games leaves just one game that is elective for everybody.  Unfortunately, I just don't think that your going to see much variety in the schedules of the NCAC teams in the near future...at least until this thing with the UAA goes away. 

I do believe Wooster has used their elective game to play B-W next year.  So there's one.  I know you Raider guys would love nothing more than to get Wooster on the schedule and beat them by 113 points, but I think you'll have to settle for rooting for B-W...I don't know that Wooster is getting any closer than that to MUC anytime soon.   

Wally,

You are correct on the committments. B-W will just have to do their best (which is pretty terrible over the last few years for an upper OAC school) against Wooster.

When I played Mount was not that great against the Scots, but we all
know that has really changed over the last 20 years or so.

[D3_DPUFan]

This is awesome, Man. Thanks for the breakdown. I sent in a letter and would hope others would take the couple minutes to do the same. Can you post this on other boards in-region?

I put it on SCAC and Monon Bell thread...

[bashbrother]

I will say this....save the Cougar flag........

College Gameday needs to be in Greencastle......(oooops......I actually referred someone to Greencastle.....a couple of hail mary's will cleanse.  )

But seriously, this needs to happen.... so if you haven't already.....follow the links and make your voice heard.

[smedindy]

I don't think 'this UAA thing' is going to go away. The UAA actually helps the NCAC in seeding for the playoffs, and we help the UAA because it'll be a freezing cold day in Belo Horizonte before NYU, Brandeis or Emory add football. And asking Rochester to move conferences won't work, because they still won't have an AQ.

The 'best' thing may be to just add the UAA to the NCAC as 'associate' football members instead of this 'schedule' bit.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I don't think 'this UAA thing' is going to go away. The UAA actually helps the NCAC in seeding for the playoffs, and we help the UAA because it'll be a freezing cold day in Belo Horizonte before NYU, Brandeis or Emory add football. And asking Rochester to move conferences won't work, because they still won't have an AQ.

The 'best' thing may be to just add the UAA to the NCAC as 'associate' football members instead of this 'schedule' bit.

I question the 'helps the NCAC in seeding for the playoffs' line.  Since seeding for the playoffs assumes you're IN the playoffs, you're basically talking Wabash and Witt.  Both played perennially so-so to bad Chicago, who is no longer in the Big 10 (is that even regional for Witt?).  Wabash played WashU, which is not even a regional game (and good luck on WashU ever being a regionally-ranked team).  Witt played CMU, who, like Chicago, is perennially so-so to bad.

How exactly does this help either team's seeding, compared with a good regional opponent?  For regional opponents Wabash would have most (if not all) of the CCIW, as well as the better teams in the HCAC.  Witt must have dozens of choices.  The link with UAA may be a 'done-deal', but I doubt it is helpful for the top of the NCAC.

[wally_wabash]

I don't think that the UAA agreement helps the NCAC champ for much of anything.  Maybe in the sense that you get two games that are going to be easy wins for our champion (as long as CWRU is content to play Hiram/Denison/Oberlin/Kenyon, the other UAA teams aren't going to challenge our top teams), but really I'd rather see Wabash and Wittenberg have a chance to get games against teams from some other leagues.  Really, that's the only way that those teams can raise their ceiling and that's the only way that the league can raise its ceiling...getting games against the OAC and CCIW and winning them.  If our teams are only beating NCAC teams and UAA teams, the league rep isn't going to get much better than it is.  

The UAA agreement clearly helps the UAA get 10 game schedules.  The UAA is getting far, far more out of this arrangement than the NCAC is.  I realize that this isn't going to go away anytime soon, which is unfortunate.  I'd like to see our teams have the ability to schedule who they like...if they like to schedule UAA teams, that's fine.  I just don't like being locked into it.  

And as a quick correction to your post, Mr. Ypsi...Wittenberg's two UAA games are against CMU and WUStl.  The WUStl game is not regional for Witt...the CMU game is.  Your point is certainly still valid.  

[smedindy]

I think it does help if the NCAC / UAA merge for football because then perhaps sane scheduling will take place.

Think of it this way - let's say the NCAC adds either DPU or W&J (two most likely candidates). For football, adding the UAA would be 14 teams. Two divisions.

West -
Wabash
Wittenberg
Washington
OWU
Denison
Chicago
DPU / Kenyon

East -
Allegheny
Hiram
Case
Carnegie Mellon
Wooster
Oberlin
Kenyon / W&J

6 games in division, 2 games in the other division based on power rankings from past 2 seasons. 2 non-conference games.

This helps, I think. As bleah as Chicago is, they're better than Hiram / Oberlin / Kenyon  usually are. And I think OWU can snap back. The other three UAA schools are decent to good most years.

[altor]

(it will be six conference games in 2010, but every team is playing another NCAC team in a game that counts as non-conference for some reason that makes no sense whatsoever)

I figured this one out last night.  You can't have an odd number of teams play an odd number of games and still have every team play an equal number of games.

It's the same reason the Big 10 didn't add a 9th conference game when D-I added a 12th game a couple years ago.  With 11 teams in the conference, they can't add a 9th game without one team either not playing that 9th game, or playing a 10th game, or having a game only count as a conference game for one of the teams.

[fantastic50]

I think it does help if the NCAC / UAA merge for football because then perhaps sane scheduling will take place.

Think of it this way - let's say the NCAC adds either DPU or W&J (two most likely candidates). For football, adding the UAA would be 14 teams. Two divisions.

West -
Wabash
Wittenberg
Washington
OWU
Denison
Chicago
DPU / Kenyon

East -
Allegheny
Hiram
Case
Carnegie Mellon
Wooster
Oberlin
Kenyon / W&J

6 games in division, 2 games in the other division based on power rankings from past 2 seasons. 2 non-conference games.

This helps, I think. As bleah as Chicago is, they're better than Hiram / Oberlin / Kenyon  usually are. And I think OWU can snap back. The other three UAA schools are decent to good most years.

This seems like a nice set-up, but as a Wooster fan, I don't like it, because of the possibility of playing none of Witt, OWU, Denison, or Kenyon in a given year (and likely playing only one in most years.)

[Raider 68]

I think it does help if the NCAC / UAA merge for football because then perhaps sane scheduling will take place.

Think of it this way - let's say the NCAC adds either DPU or W&J (two most likely candidates). For football, adding the UAA would be 14 teams. Two divisions.

West -
Wabash
Wittenberg
Washington
OWU
Denison
Chicago
DPU / Kenyon

East -
Allegheny
Hiram
Case
Carnegie Mellon
Wooster
Oberlin
Kenyon / W&J

6 games in division, 2 games in the other division based on power rankings from past 2 seasons. 2 non-conference games.

This helps, I think. As bleah as Chicago is, they're better than Hiram / Oberlin / Kenyon  usually are. And I think OWU can snap back. The other three UAA schools are decent to good most years.

This seems like a nice set-up, but as a Wooster fan, I don't like it, because of the possibility of playing none of Witt, OWU, Denison, or Kenyon in a given year (and likely playing only one in most years.)

Why would the NCAC want any merger with the UAA, or would it benefit
other sports in addition to football and why should the NCAC give up the yearly rivalry games per smedindy?

Keep them seperate, add a DePauw if they want to come, or schedule an
OAC team for the one game that would be open if not new team is added
to the conference.

[wally_wabash]

I think he's talking about football only affiliation between the two leagues, Raider.  I can assure you that nobdoy in the NCAC is interested in traveling all over the eastern U.S. for basketball games. 

I really don't like the mega conference, multi divisions thing that gets bandied about every time we talk about adding teams.  If we're going to have two 7-team divisions, why not just make two separate 7-team conferences and have two AQs?  When it comes to the UAA, they made their own bed and I really don't think that the onus is on the NCAC to bail them out if/when they have trouble getting games.  The NCAC is already shifting things around so that these guys can get games in October. Why should the NCAC have to share their AQ with the UAA?  And really, why would the NCAC share the AQ?  That is NOT what is best for our league.  When you play in a four team, Pool B league, you sign up for tough scheduling and a lot of out of region games.  That's just the nature of the beast. 

[wally_wabash]

(it will be six conference games in 2010, but every team is playing another NCAC team in a game that counts as non-conference for some reason that makes no sense whatsoever)

I figured this one out last night.  You can't have an odd number of teams play an odd number of games and still have every team play an equal number of games.

It's the same reason the Big 10 didn't add a 9th conference game when D-I added a 12th game a couple years ago.  With 11 teams in the conference, they can't add a 9th game without one team either not playing that 9th game, or playing a 10th game, or having a game only count as a conference game for one of the teams.

My god...it would seem that he's right.  Well done, altor.  +k

The answer for 2011 then is that the league either needs to get a 10th team and we get back to our cozy 7-game schedule OR the doesn't add a 10th team and we start playing a round robin.  We want the 10th team. 

[Pat Coleman]

(it will be six conference games in 2010, but every team is playing another NCAC team in a game that counts as non-conference for some reason that makes no sense whatsoever)

I figured this one out last night.  You can't have an odd number of teams play an odd number of games and still have every team play an equal number of games.

It's the same reason the Big 10 didn't add a 9th conference game when D-I added a 12th game a couple years ago.  With 11 teams in the conference, they can't add a 9th game without one team either not playing that 9th game, or playing a 10th game, or having a game only count as a conference game for one of the teams.

My god...it would seem that he's right.  Well done, altor.  +k

The answer for 2011 then is that the league either needs to get a 10th team and we get back to our cozy 7-game schedule OR the doesn't add a 10th team and we start playing a round robin.  We want the 10th team. 

Indeed, the MAC tried this (the D-III MAC) and it was fairly ridiculous.

[bearmo17]

Hey former Wabash players and coaches i am still looking for replies to our annual Monon Bell section on what playing in the Monon Bell meant to you? Just how big was it? What is your favorite memory? What does it mean since you have graduated?

Alumni, same question? What does it mean to you? Do you get together every year? Do you have any rituals.

If you want to share send to blewis@thepaper24-7.com and it just may appear. Please sign you name and year you graduated and where you live currently.

[bigwheels77]

The 14 team conference is an interesting thought... but you neglected a conference championship game.

How does that all play out in reality?