FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[jam40jeff]

Has there ever been an undefeated team excluded from the D-III playoffs?

Yes, littlegiant. The Little Giants were.  

However, I was only 5 years old at the time, so the exact reasons are a little fuzzy.

Has there ever been an undefeated team excluded from the D-III playoffs?

Yes, littlegiant. The Little Giants were.  

However, I was only 5 years old at the time, so the exact reasons are a little fuzzy.

Actually twice, if going 8-0-1 (a tie in "an uninteresting" Bell Game in 1980) is considered undefeated and then again in 1982.  If fading memory and advancing age don't trip me up, I believe Dayton won in 1980 and West Georgia in 1982.  
Recommended reading -  pages 68-69 of 2009 Wabash Media Guide...  

I only wish I'd have been five back then, Ryan  

Ryan and Cave2:

You remember correctly, Cave2.  This topic has been discussed a couple of times on this board 2-3 years ago or so, but is always fun to revisit, especially around playoff time each year.  Back then, the NCAA Div. III playoffs had only eight spots, 1 for each region (N, S, E, W) and four at-large bids.  However, their rule at the time was no more than two teams from the same region.  Thus, Wabash lost out on bids because Dayton and Baldwin-Wallace were ahead of them in the rankings in 1980 (those two teams finished #3 and #4 in the final poll with Wabash being #9).  That was in the era when Dayton was still "killing people" after having dropped from DI to DIII in 1977, which eventually led to, of course, the so-called "Dayton Rule" for DIII football as has also been discussed on the boards most interestingly in recent years.

However, the most disappointing one (certainly for our Wabash friends here ), was indeed, in 1982 when Wabash was 10-0 as you've mentioned and didn't get a bid because Baldwin-Wallace and Augustana were ahead of them in the North region rankings at the end of the season (as I recall, those two teams were #1 and #2 with Wabash being #3 in the North region; thereafter, in the final overall national rankings, Baldwin-Wallace was #1, West Georgia #2, Augustana #3 and Wabash #5, with West Georgia winning the national championship in the Stagg Bowl that year - in the next year or so, West George went DII).

That happened also to Hope (1984 when they were 9-0-0, Hope's best season ever in its 100 year history of football) and Adrian as well in the early 1980's, being ranked in the top ten in the national DIII poll (Hope was #8 as I recall) when there were still only 8 spots in the playoffs and the same "region limit" rule in effect.  Thankfully, this has changed as we all know, and even though there are a few disputes on occasion (like the Franklin one a year ago), these are minimal and the process pretty much as fair as it can be for the most part (even though the committee may have some reasoning and choices different from what some of us would choose - see Keith's summary in this week's ATN on the front page here of the criteria used for this which is most informative).  

Although they have done it before, perhaps some of our Wabash regulars here might care to share their thoughts on those two years.  IMO, it is still a travesty that Wabash's 10-0 team (and, of course, Hope's 9-0 team) didn't make it those years - a real shame.  I would also just like to add a memory here since we're on the topic of the playoffs and championships.  Speaking of Wabash and Hope, way back in my own playing days, my senior year in 1977 (yes, I'm old! ), we were the only team to beat Wabash (until they lost in the Stagg Bowl National Championship game to Widner (and Billy "White Shoes" Johnson if I recall correctly? - Wabash had some "big guns" that year, too).  We beat them in a very close 20-18, a most memorable and very great game at our place in a blinding rainstorm for a much of the game.  The game was actually delayed at the start by 45 minutes right after our pre-game warm-ups and the National Anthem, due to big lightening storm.

Wasn't CWRU also undefeated in the mid 80s and didn't make the playoffs?

[smedindy]

1984 - Case went 9-0, rolling through the NCAC. No playoffs though. In 1983, they went 8-1, losing only to Carnegie Mellon in their last year in the PAC.

[wabco]

Lots to reply to:

Raider 68 ... restrored your karma.  So, now if and when Wabash plays your team ... no snide or crummyt remarks.  Keep those for Woo.

Ryan Tipps ... the 82 season was fraught with politics in the picks.  Wabash had the national ranking (also much more subjective) but the North quadrant was the stroingest one and the "pickers" (we called them by other names) were not about to pick the best teams over politically correct geography picks.  This was one of the events which finally lead to a tournament of more than 8 teams and less politics (although it still exists) in the pciking of contestants.

Former 3db ... I was at the 79 game in the trhgen "new" Holland stasdium.  (I remember the old one with the wood covered home stands.)  The score ended 20-18.  Not taking anything away from the Dutchman ... they had a fine team.  However Wabash helped a little in the first two O series when the Wabash long snapper put the ball overe the puynters head twice ... once for 7 for Hope and once for 3 for Hope.  Down 10 - 0 after about 3 minutes by shooting onesself in the stomach along with the weather was too much to overcome. Again, not making excuses ... Hope won.  Now during that era, Hope had some good teams.  They (along with Albion) would host Wabash and DePauw as two non-conference beginning contests.  They oftern did not survive both those contests.

Now Q for you.  The EGR HS coach Stuursma played for Hope.  His last year, he suffered a broken leg against Wabash.  Do you have any recollection of the event/circumstances?   

[Schwami]

Then there was 1981 (Metzelaars' final year).  Wabash did have the #1 ranking and a 9-0 record.  But then they lost to DePauw, and with it the Monon Bell and a spot in the playoffs.

While that football season had a disappointing finish, Metzelaars did go on to lead Wabash to the D-III national championship in basketball later that year.

[Raider 68]

Lots to reply to:

Raider 68 ... restrored your karma.  So, now if and when Wabash plays your team ... no snide or crummyt remarks.  Keep those for Woo.

Ryan Tipps ... the 82 season was fraught with politics in the picks.  Wabash had the national ranking (also much more subjective) but the North quadrant was the stroingest one and the "pickers" (we called them by other names) were not about to pick the best teams over politically correct geography picks.  This was one of the events which finally lead to a tournament of more than 8 teams and less politics (although it still exists) in the pciking of contestants.

Former 3db ... I was at the 79 game in the trhgen "new" Holland stasdium.  (I remember the old one with the wood covered home stands.)  The score ended 20-18.  Not taking anything away from the Dutchman ... they had a fine team.  However Wabash helped a little in the first two O series when the Wabash long snapper put the ball overe the puynters head twice ... once for 7 for Hope and once for 3 for Hope.  Down 10 - 0 after about 3 minutes by shooting onesself in the stomach along with the weather was too much to overcome. Again, not making excuses ... Hope won.  Now during that era, Hope had some good teams.  They (along with Albion) would host Wabash and DePauw as two non-conference beginning contests.  They oftern did not survive both those contests.

Now Q for you.  The EGR HS coach Stuursma played for Hope.  His last year, he suffered a broken leg against Wabash.  Do you have any recollection of the event/circumstances?   

Wabco,

Thanks, I like Wabash, good program and even better with a former
Raider as coach. Hope you make the playoffs!

On Wooster, when I played we were not big fans of the Scotts, so there
is not love there. I did work with a VP-Operations a few years back who played 0-line for Wooster, graduated in '78 and we still keep in touch.

[wabco]

Swami

Correct ... the finals that year were held at Calvin College.  As I recall, one of the teams was Potsdam State. I believe Pete (played center) established the accuracy record in the tournament for shooting.  Do not know if it still holds.  By the by ... Wabash got Pete (Portage Central HS in MI) because his parents wanted him to get a good education and he wanted to play football and basketball ... the scholarship schools were requiring he play only one.  Very neat parents ... and Pete remains just about as ordinary as he was as a frosh at Wabash ... he is in the right place as an assistant coach for the Colts.  Fits their culture to a "T".  In fact .. probably helps establish it.  

[bashbrother]

Then there was 1981 (Metzelaars' final year).  Wabash did have the #1 ranking and a 9-0 record.  But then they lost to DePauw, and with it the Monon Bell and a spot in the playoffs..

Another storyline for the Gameday folk.   The Colts are in town this weekend, they could get Pete Metzelaars down to the Bell Game to add some color on the rivalry from a former NFL great that played at one of the schools.

So we have:

The Founders of ESPN went to DPU
Pete Metzelaars - NFL Star went to Wabash
One of the oldest rivalries in College Football
That is tied after all those games... (Name me another rivalry that is tied?)
etc.

I may be wasting my breathe, but maybe someone is watching

[old wabash]

Has there ever been an undefeated team excluded from the D-III playoffs?

Yes, littlegiant. The Little Giants were.  

However, I was only 5 years old at the time, so the exact reasons are a little fuzzy.

Has there ever been an undefeated team excluded from the D-III playoffs?

Yes, littlegiant. The Little Giants were.  

However, I was only 5 years old at the time, so the exact reasons are a little fuzzy.

Actually twice, if going 8-0-1 (a tie in "an uninteresting" Bell Game in 1980) is considered undefeated and then again in 1982.  If fading memory and advancing age don't trip me up, I believe Dayton won in 1980 and West Georgia in 1982.  
Recommended reading -  pages 68-69 of 2009 Wabash Media Guide...  

I only wish I'd have been five back then, Ryan  

Ryan and Cave2:

You remember correctly, Cave2.  This topic has been discussed a couple of times on this board 2-3 years ago or so, but is always fun to revisit, especially around playoff time each year.  Back then, the NCAA Div. III playoffs had only eight spots, 1 for each region (N, S, E, W) and four at-large bids.  However, their rule at the time was no more than two teams from the same region.  Thus, Wabash lost out on bids because Dayton and Baldwin-Wallace were ahead of them in the rankings in 1980 (those two teams finished #3 and #4 in the final poll with Wabash being #9).  That was in the era when Dayton was still "killing people" after having dropped from DI to DIII in 1977, which eventually led to, of course, the so-called "Dayton Rule" for DIII football as has also been discussed on the boards most interestingly in recent years.

However, the most disappointing one (certainly for our Wabash friends here ), was indeed, in 1982 when Wabash was 10-0 as you've mentioned and didn't get a bid because Baldwin-Wallace and Augustana were ahead of them in the North region rankings at the end of the season (as I recall, those two teams were #1 and #2 with Wabash being #3 in the North region; thereafter, in the final overall national rankings, Baldwin-Wallace was #1, West Georgia #2, Augustana #3 and Wabash #5, with West Georgia winning the national championship in the Stagg Bowl that year - in the next year or so, West George went DII).

That happened also to Hope (1984 when they were 9-0-0, Hope's best season ever in its 100 year history of football) and Adrian as well in the early 1980's, being ranked in the top ten in the national DIII poll (Hope was #8 as I recall) when there were still only 8 spots in the playoffs and the same "region limit" rule in effect.  Thankfully, this has changed as we all know, and even though there are a few disputes on occasion (like the Franklin one a year ago), these are minimal and the process pretty much as fair as it can be for the most part (even though the committee may have some reasoning and choices different from what some of us would choose - see Keith's summary in this week's ATN on the front page here of the criteria used for this which is most informative).  

Although they have done it before, perhaps some of our Wabash regulars here might care to share their thoughts on those two years.  IMO, it is still a travesty that Wabash's 10-0 team (and, of course, Hope's 9-0 team) didn't make it those years - a real shame.  I would also just like to add a memory here since we're on the topic of the playoffs and championships.  Speaking of Wabash and Hope, way back in my own playing days, my senior year in 1977 (yes, I'm old! ), we were the only team to beat Wabash (until they lost in the Stagg Bowl National Championship game to Widner (and Billy "White Shoes" Johnson if I recall correctly? - Wabash had some "big guns" that year, too).  We beat them in a very close 20-18, a most memorable and very great game at our place in a blinding rainstorm for a much of the game.  The game was actually delayed at the start by 45 minutes right after our pre-game warm-ups and the National Anthem, due to big lightening storm.

the "dayton rule?"

[cave2bens]

Another storyline for the Gameday folk.   The Colts are in town this weekend, they could get Pete Metzelaars down to the Bell Game to add some color on the rivalry from a former NFL great that played at one of the schools.

So we have:

The Founders of ESPN went to DPU
Pete Metzelaars - NFL Star went to Wabash
One of the oldest rivalries in College Football
That is tied after all those games... (Name me another rivalry that is tied?)
etc.

I may be wasting my breathe, but maybe someone is watching

Excerpt of personal email sent to ESPN on Wednesday night...

" #3.  Lee Corso, adorned in striped bibs and Wally Head, after Herbstreit picks DePauw - priceless visual, unpredictable reactions  , and genuine entertainment value."
but 

[gobash83]

However, the most disappointing one (certainly for our Wabash friends here ), was indeed, in 1982 when Wabash was 10-0 as you've mentioned and didn't get a bid because Baldwin-Wallace and Augustana were ahead of them in the North region rankings at the end of the season (as I recall, those two teams were #1 and #2 with Wabash being #3 in the North region; thereafter, in the final overall national rankings, Baldwin-Wallace was #1, West Georgia #2, Augustana #3 and Wabash #5, with West Georgia winning the national championship in the Stagg Bowl that year - in the next year or so, West George went DII).

That happened also to Hope (1984 when they were 9-0-0, Hope's best season ever in its 100 year history of football) and Adrian as well in the early 1980's, being ranked in the top ten in the national DIII poll (Hope was #8 as I recall) when there were still only 8 spots in the playoffs and the same "region limit" rule in effect.  Thankfully, this has changed as we all know, and even though there are a few disputes on occasion (like the Franklin one a year ago), these are minimal and the process pretty much as fair as it can be for the most part (even though the committee may have some reasoning and choices different from what some of us would choose - see Keith's summary in this week's ATN on the front page here of the criteria used for this which is most informative).  

Although they have done it before, perhaps some of our Wabash regulars here might care to share their thoughts on those two years.  IMO, it is still a travesty that Wabash's 10-0 team (and, of course, Hope's 9-0 team) didn't make it those years - a real shame.  I would also just like to add a memory here since we're on the topic of the playoffs and championships. 

The 1982 season was a truly remarkable one for Wabash.  I do believe that the team was short-changed in not receiving a playoff bid.  A combination of the rankings, a possibly biased selection committee (I believe that Tom Mont, the long-time DePauw A.D., was on the committee at the time), and Wabash's failure to "blow out" Illinois Wesleyan the week after knocking off Dayton worked against the team.

At the same time, the final four games (beating Wheaton, Dayton, and IWU in close games and blowing out DPU in the Monon Bell game) was quite a run...

[gobash83]

Actually twice, if going 8-0-1 (a tie in "an uninteresting" Bell Game in 1980) is considered undefeated and then again in 1982.  If fading memory and advancing age don't trip me up, I believe Dayton won in 1980 and West Georgia in 1982.  
Recommended reading -  pages 68-69 of 2009 Wabash Media Guide... 

I only wish I'd have been five back then, Ryan  

There has never been an uninteresting Belll Game.  Unhappy ones, yes; but never uninteresting. 

[Ryan Tipps]

Actually twice, if going 8-0-1 (a tie in "an uninteresting" Bell Game in 1980) is considered undefeated and then again in 1982.  If fading memory and advancing age don't trip me up, I believe Dayton won in 1980 and West Georgia in 1982.  
Recommended reading -  pages 68-69 of 2009 Wabash Media Guide... 

I only wish I'd have been five back then, Ryan  

There has never been an uninteresting Belll Game.  Unhappy ones, yes; but never uninteresting. 

Oh, I don't know if I'd agree with "never." The 2002 game was pretty uninteresting, a 35-7 blowout combined with the fact that Wabash knew it was going to the postseason for the first time in decades. There was too much promise on the horizon and excitment about Weeks 12 and beyond to be impressed with how the Bell Game played out.

But I do think I get what you're saying beneath it all.

[wally_wabash]

Actually twice, if going 8-0-1 (a tie in "an uninteresting" Bell Game in 1980) is considered undefeated and then again in 1982.  If fading memory and advancing age don't trip me up, I believe Dayton won in 1980 and West Georgia in 1982.  
Recommended reading -  pages 68-69 of 2009 Wabash Media Guide... 

I only wish I'd have been five back then, Ryan  

There has never been an uninteresting Belll Game.  Unhappy ones, yes; but never uninteresting. 

Oh, I don't know if I'd agree with "never." The 2002 game was pretty uninteresting, a 35-7 blowout combined with the fact that Wabash knew it was going to the postseason for the first time in decades. There was too much promise on the horizon and excitment about Weeks 12 and beyond to be impressed with how the Bell Game played out.

But I do think I get what you're saying beneath it all.

I thought 2002 was a tremendous Bell Game.  I still think CC should have piled on through the third quarter, but he was content to shut it down at halftime. 

Now 2004...that game was a yawn fest. 

[gobash83]

Actually twice, if going 8-0-1 (a tie in "an uninteresting" Bell Game in 1980) is considered undefeated and then again in 1982.  If fading memory and advancing age don't trip me up, I believe Dayton won in 1980 and West Georgia in 1982.  
Recommended reading -  pages 68-69 of 2009 Wabash Media Guide... 

I only wish I'd have been five back then, Ryan  

There has never been an uninteresting Belll Game.  Unhappy ones, yes; but never uninteresting. 

Oh, I don't know if I'd agree with "never." The 2002 game was pretty uninteresting, a 35-7 blowout combined with the fact that Wabash knew it was going to the postseason for the first time in decades. There was too much promise on the horizon and excitment about Weeks 12 and beyond to be impressed with how the Bell Game played out.

But I do think I get what you're saying beneath it all.

I thought 2002 was a tremendous Bell Game.  I still think CC should have piled on through the third quarter, but he was content to shut it down at halftime. 

Now 2004...that game was a yawn fest. 

Sometimes the interesting aspect of the game isn't on the field.

[DPU3619]

A game that's over 10 minutes in is a great game, but a game where Wabash can tie by going the length of the field in the last 4 minutes is a snoozer?  I know we discussed the 2004 game at length last year, wally, but if you didn't like that game, I don't really see how a game where Jake Knott and Ryan Short looked like they were playing against air is a good game at all.

It's obviously fun to see your team stick it up your rival's ass for 60 minutes, but that doesn't make a good game.  Last year's game sucked, but it was a heckuva lot of fun to watch P.J. Gbur make Matt Hudson look silly. 

I hate these games when the second half is a snoozer.  I wait 364 days for this game every year, and years like '08, '02, '98 when DPU won 42-7, '96 when DPU won 31-13, or even a game like '03 when that game ended as soon as Wiethoff left in the back of an ambulance are such a disappointment.  This game is about good football, and when only one team shows up to play good football, it's such a downer for me.  Maybe it's just me.