FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[formerd3db]

old wabash:

The so-called "Dayton Rule" came about due to the recruting practices that school apparently had after they dropped from DI to DIII.  There were some instances where they apparently had offered track scholarships to student-athletes, who were also DI calibur football players, which obviously helped them in having some powerful teams in those early DIII years for them (some claim why they won the Stagg Bowl and were in the national championship hunt in the others).  As a result, the NCAA ruled that a college and/or university could not compete in at the DIII level and have all their other sports in DI, so they would not have an advantage over other schools in football that way.  This basically led, in part, to the eventual DIAA classifications (although DIAA football had been established before these years in question) that Dayton went to i.e. the eventual Pioneer League establishment of non-scholarship DIAA football.   Of course, here are the exceptions i.e. the "grandfather rules" for lacrosse and hockey such as for John's Hopkins, and Colorado College (until the latter dropped football this year).

Dayton never really dropped down to Division III.  Dayton was always a DI school, with DIII football.  Same with Georgetown and a few other schools.  This is the opposite of what Johns Hopkins and Colorado College did/are doing.  They are DIII schools with a DI program.  The grandfather ruling which affected JHU and CC came a decade and a half after the original ruling which booted Dayton, Georgetown, and about two dozen other schools from DIII football.

In defense of my alma mater, UD was never reprimanded by the NCAA for any wrong-doing nor were the trophies ever taken away.  And I'm fairly certain that the move to kick Dayton out of DIII football was done by other DIII schools, not the NCAA brass.  One more thought, for as unfair of an advantage that UD supposedly had, they never dominated DIII the way that Mount Union has in the past 15-20 years.  

Dayton also did not build a DIII program as MUC has.

The football program most certainly did drop to DIII. In '76 UD was DI and in '77 they were DIII and pissed as hell they were not eligible for the DIII playoffs w/ multiple classes on scholarship. In '78 they were eligible, selected and eliminated in the first round by Carnegie Mellon.

I agree with both your comments/opinions as above with the exception of the statement that "Dayton was always a DI school with a DIII football program."  While they were certainly no powerhouse nor anything like the "majors" when they were in the "original" classification of DI, they were without a doubt well and above the tier of the small colleges and universities that composed the now Div. III as well as the earliest years of the latter classification when that was established in the early 1970's.  Of course they didn't build a program like Mount Union did for DIII, however, I don't think anyone can say that Mike Kelly's teams were not great (Rick Carter being in that early era as you all know before going on to Holy Cross and then his unfortunate and tragic death).  That being said, I don't disagree with you (nor do/would most people) that no college has dominated DIII like Mount Union has (that's obvious ), not even the great Augustana dynasty, but then again, it is difficult to compare those eras as they are quite different in many regards.  We also remember that during that time, Mount Union's teams were not that good (no disrespect intended to you Mount Union guys, seriously .

Anyway, my apologies for perhaps bringing this subject up again, as we all know it surfaces again from time to time.  Howeve, I think it is important for some of the younger posters and "new" guys here who are not familiar with the history (and perhaps some of us "oldsters" need a reminder on occasion as well. ).  Thanks for your comments and opinions on the topic - IMO, always and interesting discussion (and/or debate).

[formerd3db]

Hey Pat, you're up kind of late now aren't you?  Then again, it is Friday night, uh, I mean now Saturday early AM. .  I'm out now - need at least a few hours of "Z's" before going to our game at Alma College today!   

[cave2bens]

Along with a cheap shot at Matt.  Is my memory correct; wasn't ER chastised for running up the score by Wolfe last year?

No Mercy... Bury 'em.  BTW, BB - great AM on the "Hootch 

[BashDad]

this campbell kid is legit, I think.

[aueagle]

From Selby....
Bishops 20
Quake     0

2nd QT

[cave2bens]

Interesting scoring on Teamline - Hiram with 3?  Political correctness, since the Puppies attempted one?  

[aueagle]

McBride Field....
Kenyon.... 14
Denision.. 14

2nd QT

[MUCheats]

But the school did not, and that's how the original post could have been read.

This is exactly what I meant.  Sorry for the confusion.  Dayton was generally a University/Division I level school for sports.  That really never changed.  It was only the football program that dropped down to a relatively new Division III level.

At the time, the concept of division levels was still sort of new.  I believe there were a lot of medium-sized schools that floated around in a nebulous state lacking the strict division classification identity that every school has today.  In the 1960s and 1970s, Dayton was playing a schedule full of teams that today would be equivalent to D-IAA/DII (and getting their butts kicked, for the most part, too).  The move to de-emphasize football and drop to DIII was the next logical step, and I don't think it was done with any malicious intent.

[aueagle]

Earlham blocks OWU punt (inside Bishop 40)....
Runs 15 yds  for SIX.....PAT GOOD!!!!
Clock runs out....Half-Time in Delaware....
What a season for the Bishops.........

[aueagle]

At the half from McBride....
Kenyon....21
Denison...14

From Selby
OWU.....20
Quake....7

[aueagle]

I looked at the Dayton Flyers past seasons...and it was 1977 or 1978
when, as a D3 they tied Miami (Ohio) at old Miami Field...10-10.....

[aueagle]

It's over at McBride Field....
Denison....31
Kenyon.....27

Solid 2nd half for the Big Red

[aueagle]

Bishops grab 3rd  NCAC victory...
OWU ......20
Earlham....7

A lot riding on the final with the Gators.......

[BashDad]

Trinity beating Centre 17-10; late 3rd quarter. Depauw could clinch.

EDIT: It's final. Trinity wins 27-17. Depauw's got the AQ.

[BashDad]

First time in my life I'm pumped for DPU.  Oh lord, how I want a playoff matchup!

BELL WEEK!