FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[DPU3619]

The other thing to keep in mind about DPU is that they won't leave the SCAC on the hopes that the NCAC accepts them. They've been in that exact situation before and the NCAC presidents did not vote in their favor. Yes, this a different situation than when DePauw previously applied, but I'm sure it's something that DePauw is thinking about before attempting to make a move.

[ADL70]

Geography may play a role in WUStL and Chcago on Wabash's schedule, but if geography were the deciding factor, CMU is closer to Denison and Kenyon than to Wittenberg and Wittenberg would be easier to get to for Chicago than Kenyon. The NCAC uses a power rating for the intra-conference schedule, stands to reason something similar would be used for the inter-conference schedule too.

Franklin (on Wabash sched 2006 and 07) was mediocre before 2006.  Don't bother with your media guides Wally, most games are scheduled three years in advance.  What does it matter?  The other team on the LG schedule in 2006-07 was Millikin from CCIW, but they were the third or fourth best team in the conference in 2002 and 2003 when the game was likely scheduled. 

Instead of "entire league needs to be beholden to those four [UAA]teams." Perhaps the top four NCAC football teams are beholden to the bottom five teams who favor the agrement (don't know if this is a majority vote issue).  It seems they have had trouble finding teams they wanted to play since several of them have sceduled each other in games that don't count in the NCAC standings.

It's an agreement and with any agreement both sides get something out of it.  At the time it was announced the Wabash administration had positive comments about the agreement.  Maybe what would make it work better would be if the schedule could be revised on a yearly basis and only one season out.  That's going to be the case for 2011 anyhow. 

I'll give maripp a pass since he's new to the board, but for the rest this issue has been beaten to death.

[MasterJedi]

For those that have seen Wittenberg play how do they compare to the 07 Wabash team?

[wally_wabash]

I dislike conference teams playing each other in non-con games more than I dislike the NCAC/UAA agreement.  When I see teams doing this it makes my eye twitch. 

And again, ADL70 I think the agreement works for some teams and not for all.  My biggest gripe with it is why teams that it doesn't suit as well need to be shoehorned into it.  It's been tried out in good faith, and I think some teams in the NCAC could do better for themselves scheduling independently.  I hope that those teams will be allowed to pursue other opportunities after 2011. 

For those that have seen Wittenberg play how do they compare to the 07 Wabash team?

They are two different animals, Jedi.  The teams run very different offenses (although Witt has apparently been spreading things out quite a bit more than they usually do).  Defensively, I'm going to have to say that these '09 Tigers are probably a little better than the '07 LGs.  12-0 is an impressive run for anybody.  I don't think that Witt will pose much of a threat to the Warhawks on Saturday.  That's not a knock on Witt...UW-W is simply on a different plane than everybody else. 

[smedindy]

What hurts the UAA (and the NCAC) is that the OAC has just one non-conference slot.  The CCIW has three but many teams go west and north instead of east. The MIAA has four slots but this isn't the MIAA of the 90's when Albion and Hope were top-notch. The HCAC will have two, but again the bottom of the conference is weak. And if you scheduled Hanover thinking they were a top team, then the last few years have changed that mind-set. The PAC has four but it's out of region for some schools, and the bottom is weak for the others.

The UAA agreement may be the best the NCAC can do to get at least somewhat decent non-conference opponents on a regular basis. I still think that the four UAA schools should join the NCAC as football affiliates, thus making the Wash U. games in-region, nailing down an "A" chance for the UAA teams and solving the scheduling issue once and for all.

Of course, in five years, the MIAA and HCAC may be cycling back to strength.

[wally_wabash]

Why would the NCAC dilute their chance to put a team in the tournament by sharing the A bid with the UAA?  There is zero gain for the NCAC in that arrangement. 

I agree that if we want to look at what league can the NCAC partner with to share non-con games with, then as a whole, maybe the UAA is the best available option.  But why do we need to be scheduling non-con games as a league?  Why do all of the NCAC's elective games need to be a package deal?  I just don't see how such an arrangement can ever meet the needs of every team in the league given how vastly different the profiles of the teams in our league are. 

[smedindy]

Why would the NCAC dilute their chance to put a team in the tournament by sharing the A bid with the UAA?  There is zero gain for the NCAC in that arrangement. 

I agree that if we want to look at what league can the NCAC partner with to share non-con games with, then as a whole, maybe the UAA is the best available option.  But why do we need to be scheduling non-con games as a league?  Why do all of the NCAC's elective games need to be a package deal?  I just don't see how such an arrangement can ever meet the needs of every team in the league given how vastly different the profiles of the teams in our league are. 

Not all of the NCAC's games are part of the package deal. And this takes some of the difficulties of finding, scheduling, and keeping non-conference games on the schedule.

I also didn't say it was the best for the NCAC, but best for the UAA.

[ADL70]

At least one non-conf game for each is outside of the agreement.  It's just that Wabash always plays DePauw.  All the more reason for Wabash to lobby for DePauw to join the NCAC.

The issue with WUStL being out of region just points outs the absurdity of the NCAA policy giving preferred status to in-region games.  What is the point for a CWRU game with Rochester not being "in-region?"  They are in the same conference, just don't complete in football and are about 250 miles away.  Huntington College in Montgomery is 800 miles from Cleveland, but would be an "in-region" game, since Ohio and Alabama are in DIII Region 3.  Just what objective does that promote?

[wally_wabash]

At least one non-conf game for each is outside of the agreement.  It's just that Wabash always plays DePauw.  All the more reason for Wabash to lobby for DePauw to join the NCAC.

Amen to this.  We were Centre falling on their face down the stretch from having a Monon Bell game that was absolutely for a playoff spot.  A play-in game as it were.  As it was, it was still as important a Bell game as I've been around in 14 years (DePauw fans would likely say the same thing about the 2005 game).  If we were to put a conference title and an AQ on the line in these games, it would just be off the charts. 

I think Rochester needs to decide what league they want to be in.  This dual membership business is weaksauce.  Either get all in with the UAA...or don't. 

[badgerwarhawk]

Would someone be so kind as to clue me in regarding Wittenberg.  I know they've been very stingy on defense and it appears that their offense has picked it up a notch or two during the playoffs. 

What do they do well and who are their studs?

Thanks

[Pat Coleman]

They are in the same conference, just don't complete in football

Ergo they are not in the same conference.

[02 Warhawk]

Would someone be so kind as to clue me in regarding Wittenberg.  I know they've been very stingy on defense and it appears that their offense has picked it up a notch or two during the playoffs. 

What do they do well and who are their studs?

Thanks

Also...I'm curious about some insight from our Wabash friends about comparing IWU and Wittenberg, since Wabash played both teams extremely close. One game was a defensive struggle when the other one was a shootout..

[ADL70]

They are in the same conference, just don't complete in football

Ergo they are not in the same conference.

Picky, picky  The NCAA policy is still absurd.

[Pat Coleman]

They are in the same conference, just don't complete in football

Ergo they are not in the same conference.

Picky, picky  The NCAA policy is still absurd.

Not picky at all. You can't have the benefits of being in the same conference and play for different conferences.

All maps have borders somewhere. Why is Manhattan in New York and Hoboken in New Jersey? Because there's a line. Lines have to be drawn somewhere.

The administrative regions are drawn up so that approximately a quarter of Division III is in each, to make it easier to find regional opponents.

[smedindy]

They are in the same conference, just don't complete in football

Ergo they are not in the same conference.

Picky, picky  The NCAA policy is still absurd.

Not picky at all. You can't have the benefits of being in the same conference and play for different conferences.

All maps have borders somewhere. Why is Manhattan in New York and Hoboken in New Jersey? Because there's a line. Lines have to be drawn somewhere.

The administrative regions are drawn up so that approximately a quarter of Division III is in each, to make it easier to find regional opponents.

I know there is a line, but for an west-central Indiana school St. Louis isn't an onerous trip. There should be some leeway or a larger allowance, perhaps.

And don't cast aspersions on Rochester. Obviously, the UAA has deemed that it's A-OK for Rochester to be in the conference except in football. The benefits of their membership outweigh that fact (and the fact that even with them, they still don't get an AQ). There's obviously a benefit for the Liberty League as well to have Rochester in for football. So if both leagues think it's OK and Rochester thinks it's OK why is it an issue? If it wasn't OK, that would be nipped in the bud quickly.