FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[aueagle]

Forgot OWU DB Keegan Varner was a QB until the freshman trio of passers
come to Delaware....Keegan ranks 18th in conference tackles..another
outstanding athlete & took the move to defense w/class...
This weeks NCAC stats:
OWU Punt Return Average is 1.8 yards
OWU Punting Average is 26 yards
OWU LB Chad Murawski is 2nd in tackles
Men of Wabash: What's with the Penalties?

[bashbrother]

Men of Wabash: What's with the Penalties?

Yes, it is really bad.   Last week our average was around 100 yards per game.  That's an entire football field worth of penalties.     The next three weeks are going to be very tough if we cannot get this figured out.

[seinfeld]

With the discussion about OWU's retention of players and the like, it got me thinking about Wooster's retention of players. I really have no idea what is typical, or what should be typical, for a Div. III program, so anyone who might have some insight on these numbers please share.

In 2007 Wooster brought in 53 freshmen. Of that group, 12 (seniors) remain on the team.
In 2008 Wooster brought in 36 freshmen. Of that group, 16 (juniors) remain on the team.
In 2009 Wooster brought in 38 freshmen. Of that group, 18 (sophomores) remain on the team.

Excluding this year's freshmen class, the last three classes totaled 127 players, of which 46 players remain, or about 36%.

[bashbrother]

Interesting stats Seinfeld.   Taking those numbers and then looking at them as to how many of those remaining players from 2007 are seeing playing time (whether significant or occasional) would also be an interesting study.

I am sure there is a correlation between playing time and retention.  Does Wooster have a JV Squad?  This could also go a long way toward the retention of underclassman.

[bishopowu]

AUEAGLE, 0-7 Lords vs our 0-7 Bishops this Saturday at Selby Field...Whats your view (all aspects) I will be there Saturday. What other OWU fans will be there.

[bashbrother]

From insomnia land:  Here are some interesting numbers that relate to the overall topic on the board this week:

Upperclassman Led teams win more often:

I took a random sampling of five of the top ten teams in this weeks D3Football top 25.  I looked at those players that started last weeks game for each team.  This is what I came up with:

50% -  Seniors
35% -  Juniors
14% -  Sophomores
Less than 1% - Freshman

Key numbers:

85% of Starters were Junior or Seniors

Qb's -  2 - Seniors  3 - Juniors

Witt started the most seniors with 13

North Central started the most Juniors with 10

Delaware Valley started the most sophomores with 4

Wesley started the only freshman


In comparison -

OWU starting line-up consisted of:

27% - Seniors
23% - Juniors
09% - Sophomores
41% - Freshman (If I saw this right a majority of the skill positions were in this group)

I would have done Wabash, but it has been such a crazy year.

[formerd3db]

With the discussion about OWU's retention of players and the like, it got me thinking about Wooster's retention of players. I really have no idea what is typical, or what should be typical, for a Div. III program, so anyone who might have some insight on these numbers please share.

In 2007 Wooster brought in 53 freshmen. Of that group, 12 (seniors) remain on the team.
In 2008 Wooster brought in 36 freshmen. Of that group, 16 (juniors) remain on the team.
In 2009 Wooster brought in 38 freshmen. Of that group, 18 (sophomores) remain on the team.

Excluding this year's freshmen class, the last three classes totaled 127 players, of which 46 players remain, or about 36%.

Interesting stats for sure.  I wouldn't be surprised if anyone were to review such figures for many of the DIII colleges over the past 30 years that we would find very similar numbers i.e that trend may have not changed all that much.  For example; in 1974, Hope brought in 40 freshmen and of that group, there were 14 seniors that remained all four years to complete their eligibilty at the end of the 1977 season.

[ScotLass]

This board needs Big Red, Puppy, Yeoman people...
What happened to The Lass?

The Lass is around Reading the boards......biting my tongue Meditating on one of my favorite quotes: "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"  Empathizing with your frustration......

[ScotLass]

Nice stats bashbro.....I love charts and graphs 

[ExTartanPlayer]

With the discussion about OWU's retention of players and the like, it got me thinking about Wooster's retention of players. I really have no idea what is typical, or what should be typical, for a Div. III program, so anyone who might have some insight on these numbers please share.

In 2007 Wooster brought in 53 freshmen. Of that group, 12 (seniors) remain on the team.
In 2008 Wooster brought in 36 freshmen. Of that group, 16 (juniors) remain on the team.
In 2009 Wooster brought in 38 freshmen. Of that group, 18 (sophomores) remain on the team.

Excluding this year's freshmen class, the last three classes totaled 127 players, of which 46 players remain, or about 36%.

This pretty much matches my experience.

My freshman class (2004) at CMU had 47 players arrive for camp.  19 were still around on senior day in 2007.

The next class brought in 40 and I believe 18 were there on senior day 2008. 

The class after them was particularly BAD in retention rate; 36 entered and I know they had very few seniors last year (I remember there were only 2 senior offensive players).

I think 40-50% retention rate is probably about the norm.  Unfortunately, a lot of kids in D3 decide that if they're not starting (or at least playing a lot), they'd rather be drinking five days a week instead of listening to football coaches yelling at them five days a week.

[nike]

41% of starters at OWU are freshmen---WOW!
I think that is what everyone has been alluding to, that team morale  has been a significant factor in the play of the Bishops over the years.  So if almost half the starters are freshmen, at least this year, then there are a lot of ticked off upererclassmen. Plus, getting freshmen up to speed on the on the way things are done at any college program takes time.
Remember Nate Kmec at Mt. Union?  I think his first start at running back was because a senior playing ahead of him got hurt.  And if my memory serves me well, Kehres went back to the senior starting when he was able, even though Kmec still played a lot that year and went on to become an all-time great.  Mt. Union has a pretty unbelievable program, we would all agree.  And I know kids that have played there know that most will have to bide their time.  And they do it willingly.  Kehres has spoken on that. Loyalty is a two way street.
Some of you Mt. Union guys can help me out on that if I have that wrong.
One other thing I thought of.  Have always thought it was cool that so many former Wooster players would be assistant coaches at the College of Wooster following their playing days.  I know some were finishing up their course work, but it means they liked their coaches too.  And the coaches, Schmitz in particular, liked the former players and had their respect.  I remember seeing Tony Sutton prowling the sidelines as a coaching asst. at Wooster the year after running wild at Papp.
Have recently met a former player at Mt. Union who talked about how anyone who played at Mt. Union who wanted to get into coaching would start out--you guessed it---at Mt. Union.  Look how many former players have walked the sidelines there.  Pretty neat.
Do not know about all schools, but how many former OWU players have been asst. coaches there in the last several years?  
Ought to be some fun games to watch this this week.  Take your pick.

[bashbrother]

Follow-up statistics - Not trying in any way to pile on, but it is an interesting case study.

OWU -

Started last week -

6 of the 7 seniors on the roster

5 of the 11 juniors on the roster

2 of the 12 sophomores on the roster

9 of the 43 freshman on the roster

oh and I went back two weeks and took a look at Wabash starting line-up:
(last week was a freak week and 6 starters were out with injury)

Wabash started (against Oberlin)

36% - Seniors (8)
45% - Juniors (10)
19% - Sophomores (4)
0% - Freshman

Key numbers -

Wabash offense started 1 senior.

If one puts 85%+ upperclassman starters as optimal, we are pretty close.  

Wabash started -

8 of it's 21 seniors  

10 of it's 16 juniors

4 of it's 26 Sophomores

Interesting number: having more seniors than juniors on the overall roster.

[FightinScot]

Interesting stats Seinfeld.   Taking those numbers and then looking at them as to how many of those remaining players from 2007 are seeing playing time (whether significant or occasional) would also be an interesting study.

I am sure there is a correlation between playing time and retention.  Does Wooster have a JV Squad?  This could also go a long way toward the retention of underclassman.

Yes, Wooster has a JV squad - they normally play around 5 or 6 games a year. In my experience, most guys don't stick either because of grades, or they just don't like the small-school feel. You lose about half of the class during or after freshman year for one of those two reasons. Of course, there are guys that quit because of not getting PT, but the vast majority of those cases involve kids that probably wouldn't be contributors over their career anyways.

This seems to be the case at Wooster, and I'd assume around the NCAC as well - guys get into a little trouble academically, and dont love the small-school feel, and decide to walk. Then again, if I were an upperclassman at OWU, and my spot was given to a freshman early on, it might hasten a decision to give it up. Just my two cents.

[smedindy]

The big key at any school in this level is retention - not just for athletes but for its entire student body. When 1/3 of your freshmen up and leave after one year that makes it harder on everyone.

[aueagle]

                                                     
                                                                Lords vs Bishops
Common Opponents...Mostly a wash..But I'll give the edge to OWU
Scoring Per Game..KC at 9.4/OWU at 12.9...Close but OWU gives up more at 35.1 vs 31.1..Edge to KC
Rushing Per Game....KC 102/OWU 76.9...Bishops get killed on "D" Giving up 179...Edge to the  Lords
Passing Per Game...KC204/OWU 206...KC "D" gives up278 per game.....Edge to the Bishops
Total Offense....KC 306/OWU 359...Lords "D" gets killed at 426 vs OWU "D" at 359...Edge to OWU
Kicking Game....I looked at Returns & Avg Kick/Punt...Maybe a wash...but, I gave the edge to KC
Last year... Lords won 33-28.....Close...This year the "Vegas" has it close again - 4-5 pts
Home Field Advantage...Out the window...Bishops are 8-15 the last 5 yrs at home...
Coaching.... Stanley has the ship turned and he is young & exciting....Edge to the Lords
Roster/Attitude....I like what backgrounds some of the KC players have...big, winning HS programs...
Kenyon was picked to be near the bottom this year...while OWU was slated to be in the middle.....
Edge to KC.....This is tough....but, I think Kenyon goes home a winner by 8 points
Lass: I miss your comments...you know your stuff....We're a better board with you....
bishopowu...Wish I could tailgate with you, but I will be at the Dayton at Davidson game..
GO BISHOPS