FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[jam40jeff]

I'd be happy to never hear a fan in the stands get up and yell at the game officials for either calling a hold or not calling a hold. 

Myth: your team always gets held, but never ever holds
Fact:  everybody holds all of the time and your team is getting away with it way more than they are getting called for it, even if you think your team is getting called for it all of the time 

I'm making November "Stop Hollaring About Holding Because You're Embarrassing Yourself" Awareness Month.  Ribbon color: penalty flag yellow. 

+K (would do 5 if I could).  That annoys me as much as anything at games.

[ExTartanPlayer]

I'd be happy to never hear a fan in the stands get up and yell at the game officials for either calling a hold or not calling a hold. 

I, too, loathe hearing fans criticizing officials for really close judgement calls.  The fans who do this generally don't seem too eager to put on the stripes themselves and watch 22 players run 150-some plays while looking for 100-plus potential infractions of the rules and potential judgement calls about the sideline, endzone, or spot of the ball.  While watching ONCE, at full speed, without the benefit of instant replay.

Slightly related note: the football fans that annoy me the most BY FAR are the ones that never played the game beyond junior high, but are very quick to criticize NFL players for some perceived weakness or lack of ability.  I had a kid legitimately arguing with me that Chad Pennington was a pussy because he had a weak throwing arm, and that he'd gladly stand and tell Mr. Pennington that to his face, fearing no repercussions because he was tougher than Pennington.

I attempted to refute this point by stating that:
a) Pennington was 6'3" and 220 pounds, and stared down NFL defenses every Sunday.  The guy had taken hits from Ray Lewis the Sunday before.  I think he's probably faced tougher competition than a 5'9", 150-pound college sophomore who played one year of junior high football.
b) Pennington likely could throw a football hard enough to break his nose from 15 yards away.  Just because it looks like he has a weak arm on TV doesn't mean it's actually "weak" as we think of it - it was only "weak" compared to the howitzers that most NFL quarterbacks have.

Nevertheless, Mr. Tough Guy could not be convinced.  He stood by his belief that a veteran NFL starting quarterback was a weak pussy.

[BashBacker#16]

...meanwhile BACK to the biggest of game of the season in the NCAC...

Witt preview & game notes http://www4.wittenberg.edu/news/athletics/football/gamenotes/gamenotes10/wabash.pdf

Audio preview:  http://www4.wittenberg.edu/news/athletics/football/gamedaycentral/2010/wabash.html

I didn't realize McKee was leading the nation in yards per game...YIKES.  How about the last 4 games being decided on the last play of the game???  That is crazy!!!  I can't wait for Saturday!

[bishopowu]

AUEAGLE,

what were your takeaways from the OWU vs Kenyon Game?

OWU Vs Oberlin this week at Oberlin...can OWU get this game to?

[smedindy]

I don't know if it's fair to say that a team is good at "drawing penalties".  I don't think you really induce penalties in football the same way that you can force a foul in basketball. 

Huzzah for Kenyon's penalty stats...but Kenyon is about 11 days away from being 0-10.  Worth it?  Probably not. 

Well, we could do a study, and see if there is year over year correlation. You know, if someone is bored.

[formerd3db]

jam and ExTartan:

I know where you both are coming from and I generally agree.  It is easy for us ex-players/coaches and fans (including those who never played i.e. the "arm chair QB types" ) to sit back and complain to the officials.  The vast majority of the officials really try to do a good job and be impartial.  They make mistakes like any of us do and with close judgement calls, it is obviously sometimes very difficult to determine i.e. they are just that - judgement calls.  However, what annoys me the most is when officials are not consistent in those calls during the course of the game, and become vindictive against a particular team, player or the coaching staff, which is simply wrong.  I have seen that happen more than once the years and while rare, it does occur.  In those situations I have no problem yelling and complaining at the ref - diplomatically, of course! While that sometimes can backfire and make the situation worse, on the other hand, it is apporpriate to let them know they're being disingenuous about such situations.  Thereafter, a diplomatic letter of complaint to the league administrator of officials is appropriate, if the performance of the ref and/or crew becomes a pattern.

All that being said, I know you were mainly referring to fans who are abusive (including inappropriate language) to officiating crews just for the heck of it and/or due to their own ignorance.  That is never acceptable; however, a good intended, good natured criticism is - it is part of the game and the really good officials understand and accept the latter - at least the ones I know do.  Good discussion guys.  Thanks for your opinions/takes on that.

[wally_wabash]

I don't know if it's fair to say that a team is good at "drawing penalties".  I don't think you really induce penalties in football the same way that you can force a foul in basketball. 

Huzzah for Kenyon's penalty stats...but Kenyon is about 11 days away from being 0-10.  Worth it?  Probably not. 

Well, we could do a study, and see if there is year over year correlation. You know, if someone is bored.

Why not?  Since 2001, here are the NCAC leaders in opponent penalties and their record:
2010 - Kenyon, 0-8
2009 - Oberlin, 2-8
2008 - Oberlin, 2-8
2007 - Earlham, 3-7
2006 - Earlham, 3-7
2005 - Hiram, 1-9
2004 - Hiram, 0-10
2003 - Earlham, 3-7
2002 - Denison, 2-8
2001 - Kenyon, 1-9

On the other side, since 2001 these are the most penalized teams in the NCAC and their records:

2010 - Wabash, 7-1
2009 - Wabash, 9-2
2008 - Wabash, 10-2
2007 - Kenyon, 2-8
2006 - Hiram, 0-10
2005 - Kenyon, 6-4 (this was Kenyon's 6-1, 2nd place NCAC year)
2004 - Oberlin, 1-9
2003 - Earlham, 2-8
2002 - Oberlin, 3-7
2001 - Allegheny, 5-5

So what do penalty stats mean?  Pretty much bubkes as far as I can tell. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Looks to me like no clear indicator for being penalized, but opponents being penalized is the kiss of death!

[aueagle]

bishopowu: The Bishops got 14 points from KC..at the right time.
The 4th qt was key...most of the stats, except rushing , were close.
It was what it was...Battle of the Winless....I don't think the Bishops can
beat Oberlin, but then, I won't be surprised if they finish with 3 season wins.
I didn't see the OWU game...I was in NC at the Dayton vs Davidson game.

[wabco]

I suspect I will draw incoming ... but the advent of ER and Wabash penalties ... per Wally's list ... cross.  Perhaps a cooincidence.  But I think ER - while not wanting stupid penalties such as offside (and we have not conquered that), allows (encourages) aggressive positive play peformed properly and within the rules  ... which while good ... will cause penalties in the mind of officials accoustomed to the likes of Earlham/Kenyon etc. type teams.

[skunks_sidekick]

I suspect I will draw incoming ... but the advent of ER and Wabash penalties ... per Wally's list ... cross.  Perhaps a cooincidence.  But I think ER - while not wanting stupid penalties such as offside (and we have not conquered that), allows (encourages) aggressive positive play peformed properly and within the rules  ... which while good ... will cause penalties in the mind of officials accoustomed to the likes of Earlham/Kenyon etc. type teams.

Most likely not far from the truth.  Mount has always been known to draw its fair amount (more than fair if you are a Mount fan  ) of penalties that are of the aggressive nature.  LK was commenting on that in a story (I think in a football coaches magazine), and indicated he didn't mind the penalties, because it meant his team was playing in an aggressive, tough manner.

[altor]

The vast majority of the officials really try to do a good job and be impartial.  They make mistakes like any of us do and with close judgement calls, it is obviously sometimes very difficult to determine i.e. they are just that - judgement calls.  However, what annoys me the most is when officials are not consistent in those calls during the course of the game, and become vindictive against a particular team, player or the coaching staff, which is simply wrong.

As an official for another sport, I fully agree with your first sentence here.  To think that any official is "out to get you" is a ludicrous thought.  I also have trouble believing that many become vindictive during the course of the game.  We are out there for the love of the game and the desire to give everybody a fair shake with regards to the rules.

My complaints about the officiating come, not about judgment calls, but rather when the officials make mistakes due to lack of pre-game preparation.  These mistakes usually manifest themselves in three areas:  the official doesn't know the rule, the official misapplies the rule, or the official is out of position to see the play (often because he is out of shape).

I watched an HCAC game earlier this year where they marked off 15 yards for a block in the back.  I didn't say anything the first time, because I figured that I was mistaken about where the spot of the foul was.  Later, they started marking off 15 yards again.  I yelled from the stands that time, and I think the line judge heard me, because a couple second later he was blowing his whistle and they moved the ball up 5 yards.

I've watched umpires who were too fat to bend over and spot the ball.  They just dropped the ball and stepped on it to keep it from rolling.

I watched a referee confuse everybody by not giving the illegal touching signal when a receiver stepped out of bounds and was the first to touch the pass.  He only gave the loss of down signal.  Even the announcer was confused by the penalty.

These are things that belong in JV HS football, not in college.  I bust my butt to review rules and case books year round.  I'm probably a little out of shape, but not so much that I can't bend over.  The kids deserve my best effort, and they are going to get it.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Excellent post, altor.

Missed judgement calls can be forgiven, as they're very hard to see in real time.  Pass interference and holding are two of the toughest penalties to define and call.

I also agree that while EVERY coach thinks the officials are out to screw them (I couldn't believe how much profanity my college coaches directed at officials), most really aren't.  They're just calling the game...frankly, coaches/fans tend to think that every call against them is egregiously wrong just because it hurts their chances to win.

Missed interpretations of the rules are more difficult to forgive - i.e. incorrect yardage for a penalty, incorrect clock/down rulings, et cet.

I also agree that being horrendously out of shape is really poor for an official.  This is a touchy subject in our society today, and fat people HATE being told that they're fat and out of shape...but if you're not in condition to perform the duties required of an official, then you shouldn't be out there until you ARE in condition to do so.

[matblake]

Personally, I think there is a misconception of officiating nowadays that they are there to make sure all calls are correct.  IMO officials are there to decide one way or another.  I truly believe that officials do try to make sure all calls are correct, but mostly they are there to decide.  They are the "buck stops here."  Do I want all the calls to be correct and perfect? Sure.  But bottom line somebody has to decide and that is the officials job.  Otherwise you have a situation that ends up like 4th graders playing out in the yard, everyone commits a penalty against them, but they never commit penalties.

[smedindy]

Excellent post, altor.

Missed judgement calls can be forgiven, as they're very hard to see in real time.  Pass interference and holding are two of the toughest penalties to define and call.

I also agree that while EVERY coach thinks the officials are out to screw them (I couldn't believe how much profanity my college coaches directed at officials), most really aren't.  They're just calling the game...frankly, coaches/fans tend to think that every call against them is egregiously wrong just because it hurts their chances to win.

As for that last statement, I think most of the 'anger' towards officials is part of the game, where coaches are trying to get the next one, the one that may be more important, their way.

What I hate worse than bad calls are make-up calls.