FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[seventiesraider]

, im sure you can find one here and there, but not in the numbers and quality you see in some certain OAC schools.

Sorry, but what in the *&^( are you talking about?

[Ryder16]

70's I'm droppin it... i think its the elephant in the room.. but if we dont talk about it, maybe it wont/didnt happen. So go ahead over to the OAC board and talk about who Mt. Union will play in the finals. I sure hope you team doesnt have the attitude of your fans.

[Pat Coleman]

70's I'm droppin it... i think its the elephant in the room.. but if we dont talk about it, maybe it wont/didnt happen. So go ahead over to the OAC board and talk about who Mt. Union will play in the finals. I sure hope you team doesnt have the attitude of your fans.

I actually don't hear very much at all about junior college transfers in the OAC, Ryder. Do you have a list? Better check it twice, by the way.

[aueagle]

                             Congrats to Ohio Wesleyan 1st Team Defensive Players
                                            James Huddleston & Chad Murawski
                                  HM congrtas to Espo, Taylor Smith & Peter Merkle
                                          Huddleston & Espo return for the Bishops
                    and Fincham gets ANOTHER honor.....He has dominated the NCAC

[Ryder16]

   My original start was simply a difference in admission standards. It got off on a slight tangent about JuCo and branch campus transfers. I have been shot down pretty rapidly and harshly for bringing up the idea, so I was planning on leaving it alone.
   I don't believe I have the resources to know who is a transfer, and where they are from or specific examples of GPA's to prove a difference in admission standard.  I believe that is covered under confidential information on a schools admission form.  I will see what I can dig up sniffing around the internet.

[Mr. Ypsi]

   My original start was simply a difference in admission standards. It got off on a slight tangent about JuCo and branch campus transfers. I have been shot down pretty rapidly and harshly for bringing up the idea, so I was planning on leaving it alone.
   I don't believe I have the resources to know who is a transfer, and where they are from or specific examples of GPA's to prove a difference in admission standard.  I believe that is covered under confidential information on a schools admission form.  I will see what I can dig up sniffing around the internet.

I sent you a PM, but want to make a more general point.

Stanford competes quite well in virtually all sports.  Duke does quite well in quite a few (though if you only follow football, you might not know that ).  Among 'elite' state schools, Michigan and Cal (among others) are not exactly slouches.  In D3, NESCAC schools tend to dominate the all-sports trophies (though the scoring is horribly flawed), and UAA schools have won more than their share of national titles.  Trying to play the 'academics' card works ONLY if you subscribe to the 'dumb jock' stereotype.

I can't provide any data to prove it, but I'd be willing to bet that a high academic reputation is overall an advantage, even if you lose a few desired recruits.

[seventiesraider]

i think its the elephant in the room.

Yet you couldn't drop it without another totally unsubstantiated shot in the dark. I will drop it by saying the first statistic you might want to research is the graduation rate of Mount Union players during Larry Kehres's tenure. I think it will go far in showing you how far off in left field you are. Just because there is success, there is always someone who wants cast dispersions about how it happened. I assure you that if you spent ten minutes with Larry Kehres you'd understand why he is one of the most revered  coaches and administrators in college sports.
Please, if you think there is something dishonest going on, do your research FIRST before accusing anyone of anything, it's called ethics.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yeah, I probably should have also mentioned that (while I'm not the one with data to prove it), a number of posters have observed that just about the only thing higher than Larry Kehres's winning percentage is the percentage of players that graduate.

[nike]

Just look at all the asst./head coaches in d3 and high school football who played at Mt. Union.  Several I have talked to who played at Mt. went into coaching and/or education simply because of Kehres.  BTW, doesn't matter where you come from if you go to class, do your  homework and study.

[Ryder16]

As a side note, I have met Mr. Kehres several times, I do like him a lot, I love his passion.   I am curious what is the graduation rate of Mount Union  Football players ? You say it is good but I'd love to see a statistic. As well as that from several other OAC schools, and if you could maybe throw in a couple of NCAC schools. Please don't make a blanket statement without having facts that are available to public knowledge... Afterall.. thats what you have just belittled me for doing !

I did a little research of my own, this is what I came up with.
In the freshmen class entering the following schools in 2010 here are some admission facts.

School      Ave. HS GPA     min. transfer GPA
ONU           3.64                      2.0
BW             3.5                          2.5
UMU            3.19                        2.0
Wilm             3.2                         2.0
Marietta       3.4                          2.3
Musk           3.14                         2.0
JCU             3.36                        2.0
Cap             3.47                       2.5
Ott              3.3                         2.5
H'berg         3.2                        2.0

A few others:
gheny          3.75                   2.5
kenyon         3.82                   3.0
witt              3.49                    2.0
woo             3.6                      2.6
bash            3.5                      N/A
OWU            3.3                      2.5
Oberlin         3.6                      3.0
Hiram           3.34                    2.5
Den              3.6                      2.75


Averages:
OAC =         3.34                         2.18                     
NCAC=         3.55                        2.31

Interpret these numbers however you would like, it is all from public information from princton review.

I have seen from doing this research that it is difficult to find most of the information you are looking for on a public forum such as the internet.

and let me take this opportunity to say I do apologize for getting a bit hasty with some of my statements, I cannot back them up with information from public internet searches, so therefore they must not be true (right 70's ?)

Pat, I have no intentions of calling out individual student-athletes using information I am privy to that may not be public, and thus I retract anything I have said in the past regarding transfer students and JuCo students and yes I lumped JuCo students in with transfers hastily.

When I said the elephant in the room, I was referencing difference in admission standards, not JuCo transfers, or any transfers. None the less, I am not Santa Claus, so there will be no making of a list and checking it twice. I would love to do so, but it just doesn't seem possible at this time with privacy policies, nor worth the time to prove a simple point( having transfers is not cheating after all, or illegal, just helpful :-))

[aueagle]

Any 6'3" - 6'5" 285-305 lbs JUCO's that have a 2.5 GPA...
PLEASE come to Delaware! And can you run a 4.55 forty?

[skunks_sidekick]

Any 6'3" - 6'5" 285-305 lbs JUCO's that have a 2.5 GPA...
PLEASE come to Delaware! And can you run a 4.55 forty?

NICE!  Now THOSE are some numbers I think many D-III coaches could work with!

As of two years ago, there were only TWO football players that played all four years for LK that DIDN'T graduate.  One had to leave school before graduating because his father passed away and he had to go take care of the family working farm.  The other one LK says he still contacts regularly to try to get him to come back and finish his degree. 

I know Garcon came back to take classes to finish his degree, but I can't say for sure whether he completed his coursework or not.

And Ryder.....bitter former WOO soccer players aren't a pretty sight.  Go drink a Capri sun and put some cold spray on it.  You will feel better.   

[smedindy]

Ryder,

Different schools have different missions, different admissions standards, and different expectations. Learning can happen anywhere, at any place.

Yes, the admissions standards of the OAC aren't a stringent as the NCAC - but they really are serving different markets. The only thing the same about Oberlin and ONU is that they are both in Ohio. But you can become a Yeoman or a Polar Bear and get a great education the same.

And believe me, stats aren't what make an admissions decision. GPAs in High School can be totally misleading. It's the entire body of work as a student - test scores, GPA, activities, interests, community service, etc. etc.

Some football players at Mt. Union or ONU probably would be rejected by Kenyon and Denison, yes. So? The NCAC has a great brand with great institutions. Let's not get petty, smug and self-righteous about it. Let's leave that for the NESCAC!

[bashbrother]

It should also be noted that I bet if you look close enough, many of the NCAC schools, yes I said the NCAC,  at one time or another have allowed in their own exceptions to certain admission rules.

There are many sports that NCAC schools have achieved national/regional prominence or even dominance.   (Note:  this fact is not communicated to now start a string of posts on certain sports being "Smart Sports")

The weekend and actual football posts cannot get here soon enough.

Play Ball!

[seventiesraider]

I keep finding the same 2003 article on LK that quotes a Graduation figure of 98%. I know that he maintains it is higher that his winning percentage.

The one thing I have seen with transfers at Mount Union is that often they are gone again after one season because they couldn't start at Mount Union. I'd love to compare the number of transfer out's compared to the transfer in's. Out of the 100 plus kids who show up every year as freshman there are less than thirty after two years. Most stay at Mount and pursue other activities but many others head for places they think they can play. You have to buy into the idea that your going to have to work your way on to the Varsity and it may take three years. Not a lot of 19,20 year olds exhibit that level of maturity.

Pierre Garcon was a once in a lifetime kid who realized after a year at Norwich he wasn't going to realize his dream unless he made a change. He was also a kid with enough class and loyalty to Coach Kehres to come back on campus after his first Pro season and complete his degree. Another reason I don't want to hear the innuendo's