FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[DPU3619]

Very interesting comments/discussion Wes.  A question from an "outsider" here; so what changed from Coach Nick M's era (both as coach and AD)?  Is it the administration that is pushing this and/or is the athletic department part of this?  Just curious.

Well, the short answer is the entire administration.  I'm not trying to spread some nasty conspiracy here, but it's well known that Bob Bottoms (President from '86 to '08) was a shady, shady character, and he brought a lot of those types with him when he came.  Yes, he's gone, and most of those associated with him are gone, as well.  It got pretty ugly there near the end of his tenure (near and after Nick's retirement.)  They tried to pull a lot of stuff over on the University (student body, faculty, staff... everybody) that wasn't very welcome.

I think Brian Casey (new President) means well.  He's a really likeable guy with great ideas for where he wants DePauw to go in the future, but I wonder how much he knows about what Bottoms & his Cabinet were telling the Board of Trustees and student body.  Matt Walker got fired on Casey's watch for what was certainly not a fireable offense.  Who is to blame for the Rogers disaster?  That wasn't under Casey, but it was the same exact thing.  I guess I don't really know who is steering the boat here.  Is it the board?  Is it Casey? Is it Page Cotton?  Somebody's hands are dirty.

The Greek thing is happening.  Whether they're doing it intentionally or not is up for debate.  That's my opinion on it.  It would be easier if there was some transperancy with this administration, although I can see why there isn't.  They fire their football coaches and then shove enough money at them to settle their lawsuits and shut them up.  Maybe I'm a kook and dreaming things up, but the pieces fit together too well for me.  Like I said, I've been around this school a long time, and it just doesn't add up.  Never did.

[wab64]

Wes-I think you misunderstood what wabco (or his source) was saying about the graduation issue. It's not the graduation RATE, but the number of graduates from the roster this year. If the reference was to "graduation rate" it would imply that two-thirds of DePauw football players never graduate, which is nonsense. Cave2Bens has posted his research-that 38 players on last year's roster of 108 are seniors or otherwise on track to graduate. I hope you don't consider this a flat-out lie. People are tending to throw the word "lie" around more and more. I don't think d3football.com needs to deal with inflammatory rhetoric.
      Your posts in this direction are excellent and I appreciate reading your work. I can't imagine anyone better at writing with your insight, balance and information about ANY college program. As long as you don't listen to Breckinridge Bear.

[DPU3619]

Regardless of how you look at it, or what terms you use, more than 1/3 of the team graduates. Period.

[Li'l Giant]

Regardless of how you look at it, or what terms you use, more than 1/3 of the team graduates. Period.

I still don't think he gets it. Apparently, someone's gonna have to break out the Big Chief tablet and crayons.

[DPU3619]

I literally JUST got it. I'll shut up now.

[smedindy]

I'm glad someone from DPU admitted that Bottoms was 'a shady character'.

Small colleges like DPU (and Wabash) do have to make sure that town / gown relations are in good shape, and problem fraternities can really strain those relations. Today's students are less apt to join a fraternity anyway, so even if they're not intentionally doing something by not intervening when they are going under they may be tacitly approving of the reduction.

[Li'l Giant]

I'm glad someone from DPU admitted that Bottoms was 'a shady character'.

But we're still waiting for a Krushchevian "De-Bottoms-ization" speech. I get what Wes is saying. The administration may have changed but it doesn't appear to him that it's made too big a difference in how DPU has treated their football program.

[wabco]

Wes

Sorry if I was fuzzy in my choice of words.  The point I was trying to repeat (as related to me) was that about 1/3 of the present DePauw football team will not be returning next year ... due in large part to their being seniors and graduating from college.  This should stress any team the next year ... to lose so many senior - 4 year - members of a team ... generally participating both in significant playing time and positions and leadership.  It also points positively to one heck of a job done a few years back ... when you look at the graduating senior group this coming spring and the one which graduated last spring. 

The dip in DePauw player numbers/player talent that was predicted and is - I am told - coming (which is caused by the large number of players "graduating" and arguably exacerbated recruiting wise by the conference change related interregnum of playoff goal/conference goal etc.) is also the result of the turmoil/interruptions in the football and coaching ranks/focus occurring 3/4 years back caused by the Rogers and Walker events.  (Rogers ... perhaps, but Walker ... what a bone head administration move on a great coach and model person).  The challenge will be to make this temporary ... and then our arch nemises will be back ... just as likable/unlikable as always.

I suspect Wabash is in for a very interesting end of year game this coming year.  Harking back to the days when the "season" was that and only that game ... not a conference championship or a playoff bid ... but just down right beating the tarnation out of the other team and enjoying that for an entire year ... hence my reference to my DePauw friend of the numbers 47 and ZERO. . .  The games of that "harking back" period often had a completely different approach and strategy:  "God gave you four downs ... put the punter on the bench ... use the four downs."  What a game stategy changer that concept is ... when you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by playing four offensive down football.  AND ... the "trick " plays which were practiced all year long in secret and never, never used or called out ... no matter what ... until the Wabash/DePauw game.  Your Coach Nick was a master at this.  I could see DePauw doing this to us next year.  That approach ... carried to today's games ... is the Genises of why the favored/playoff bound team often is unseated in this game.  The other team is that dangerious to play of that day.

Now having said that ... do not doubt for a moment that the Bell will stay in C-ville all of 2011.  WAF

[formerd3db]

wabco, wes, smeds, Lil'Giant et al:

I will say that graduating some 30+ seniors is a very large number.  Last year, several of us had a similar discussion on one of the other boards regarding the #'s for incoming recruiting classes and the attrition rate by the senior year.  Indeed, over 30 is very large number.  As I recall from the previous discussion (and this is  in general mind you, coming from my "pulling it from memory" without going back and checking the exact posts), most of the graduating classes of senior players at schools hover around the "mid-teens".  I remember "way back when" from my own class of 40 recruited freshman players at Hope, we had 14 seniors who remainded all four years.  The largest I recall in our MIAA was about 24 (or was it 28? ) seniors that Alma had one year back in the mid-late 1990's.  Obviously, not all the 30+ seniors at DePauw received significant playing time I'm sure, nonetheless, that is still a huge number that will not be returning.  It will be interesting to see how their incoming class is for this year, among all that is going on and has transpired as you all have pointed out/discussed within this discussion.

Now having said all that, I don't want to cause a stir and "bring up old sore spots" here, so if one of you would be so kind as to PM me with the reason why Walker was let go, I'd appreciate it.  As I recall, it was kept quiet, especially here, and I don't remember ever hearing the "real story".  As to Rogers, when he was a Kazoo in our league, he seemed to be doing a good job, having got them started back on a good track.  However, something must have happened when he left there, because after he went on to Cornell in the IVY and then on to DePauw, he didn't quite seem the same, at least IMO, although I obviously have no clue being an "outsider" as to what transpired at DePauw during that later time during his tenure.  Yet, it also is strange because he went on to coach at Grand Rapids Catholic High School here in Michigan, but was let go from that program a couple of years ago I'm told. Finally, as you mention, it is too bad they let Walker go as I have a feeling that he will do well with his new job at Wis-River Falls.  Anyway, what is the "real scoop" behind the scenes with that - PM and enlighten me please Thanks.


 

[DPU3619]

The dip in DePauw player numbers/player talent that was predicted and is - I am told - coming (which is caused by the large number of players "graduating" and arguably exacerbated recruiting wise by the conference change related interregnum of playoff goal/conference goal etc.) is also the result of the turmoil/interruptions in the football and coaching ranks/focus occurring 3/4 years back caused by the Rogers and Walker events.  (Rogers ... perhaps, but Walker ... what a bone head administration move on a great coach and model person).  The challenge will be to make this temporary ... and then our arch nemises will be back ... just as likable/unlikable as always.

Maybe.  That's a good point.  For the sake of a counterpoint, that's a lot of graduating seniors because that many seniors stayed and played all 4 years instead of quitting to go compete in the intrafraternal beer pong league.  Five coaches in 8 years is a lot, though.  I'm sure there's something to it. 

With everything you've said, even with the past two Bell results, the Robby Long era has still been one of the best in this program's history.  Let's not sleep on that, now.  Only the third time ever to 9 wins and had never been to the playoffs before Robby took over.  Maybe he did that with players that weren't his, but a win is a win is a win.  47-0 stinks out loud, but despite all this turmoil, 2012 DePauw Football is going to be a legitimate contender for a conference title.  I don't think I spent many seasons in the 2000's seriously believing that.  I sure didn't this season, although that's more of product of Trinity not being good than DePauw being a great football team. 

[Ryder16]

Love the discussion fellas, just my 2 cents. In my time, quite a few freshmen quit because they would never play or wanted to join the highly touted "IFBPL".
Another portion quit because they realized they needed the time to focus on academics. I can think of a couple of people who certainly would have started that had to take this route " because academics is #1"

Back to those who stayed 4 years, it breeds and grows a program, even those who do not play, but stay for 4 years were some of the most inspirational to me as a young guy looking at the older guys, because they really loved the game. to the point that even though they would never see the field, they gave it there all every day at practice. When that happens with seniors, Underclassmen see that and follow it because they think thats what the program is all about.  That is a real program builder, the kids should be commended. especially with sub par circumstances of having a revolving door of coaches.

[smedindy]

I'm glad someone from DPU admitted that Bottoms was 'a shady character'.

But we're still waiting for a Krushchevian "De-Bottoms-ization" speech. I get what Wes is saying. The administration may have changed but it doesn't appear to him that it's made too big a difference in how DPU has treated their football program.

Well, when someone pounds a shoe on the table at the Monon Stag, you'll know it happened!

[1837Tigers]

the University began reducing the number of freshman males over time, so they could essentially kill out the fraternity system by attrition.  

Wes,

As much as I like and admire you, this is simply not true.  If you look at nationwide trends, more women are attending college than men and it's not unusual to see schools where women make up 60% or more of the student body.  DePauw is actually doing a better job of attracting men in a shrinking pool than most.  But I can say definitively that there is and has been no "plan" to reduce the # of freshman males.  If anything, DePauw is fighting hard (like other schools) to find quality male applicants in a pool that has been shrinking for some time now.

[D3_DPUFan]

Well, when someone pounds a shoe on the table at the Monon Stag, you'll know it happened!

Good line 

[wab64]

Wes, Dpu fan, et al.

    Don't forget that Napoleon once said "Never attribute to treachery what can easily explained by incompetence"