FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[wabco]

Bashdad

I hope the cautions I brought out are simply over worrying.  I want to believe that.  Select whatever numbers you like.  That does not change what I saw last Saturday or saw last year as well.  We have more than outstanding receivers.  An experienced QB needs to use them. 

Witt is on the way as is Wash U and even Chicago next Sat.  We must beat all three of them and I believe we have the tools to do so and do it well.  I do not think that will occyur if a QB does not see the receivers and get them the ball and instead runs around.  I really do not want to be correct here and very much want to believe Wally is correct and it will all work its way out. 

I have faith in ER and the other coaches ... I suspect we will see currative actions with our QB(s) to make sure we are ready.  I want us to come out and run and pass Chicago to death.  WAF 

[wally_wabash]

We also are sick of losing to Witt (although they were close games, they were still losses) 

If it's all about Witt...take the comparative score.  Wabash beat OWU by more than Witt did and didn't have to pull away late to do it.  Rejoice! 

Look, Wabash has dropped the last two games to Witt and that stinks.  Witt hasn't lost a regular season game in over two years, so they're pretty good.  In 2009 Wabash played that game without ANY game experience at quarterback.  Zero.  And lost on a field goal at the end.  In 2010, Witt had about 120 seniors and they were just better.  It happens sometimes.  Wabash doesn't play Wittenberg for six more weeks.  Let's see how the bulk of the season plays before we freak out and worry about what will or won't work against Wittenberg.  There's way, way, way too many good things happening with Wabash football to lose it over a couple of sacks in a game that they won by 21 points. 

[wally_wabash]

Guys, he threw FOUR touchdowns on Saturday!  He was the only quarterback in the league to throw four touchdown passes on Saturday.  The only one.  Chase Belton had a better day at quarterback than any other quarterback in the league, and you're killing him.  I just don't get this. 

Perusing boxscores from the top 25, so far I've found one other QB who threw four TDs on Saturday (Hurst out in Redlands).  I'll keep looking. 

So, including Belton and the qb from Redlands, quarterbacks from these schools also threw four (or in a couple of cases more) touchdowns on Saturday:
Endicott
Franklin
St. Norbert
Lake Forest
Westminster (Mo.)
Huntingdon
Lewis & Clark
Louisiana College
St. John Fisher

That's 11 Division III quarterbacks that put as many points on the board as Chase Belton did.  Eleven....out of 230-ish.  That's the 95th percentile.  Can that be good enough?  Please? 

[Bash-Dad #84]

Everyone here is making good points about the maturation of our fine, young Quarterback. Some I agree with and some I do not. The point is there is a guy named Raeburn that is present at every practice and every game. If he thinks Chase Belton gives us the best chance to win, I am OK with it. There have been times that I wish Chase was quicker checking down. I am greedy, I want #84 to catch all the passes and make all the touchdowns, but in the real world I would rather have Chase try to make a play and end up eating the ball, than to turn it over. For the most part, he has veteran guy's that should be coming back to him, etc. to help him when he gets into trouble. This team is a machine, ER is oiling it more with each practice and the men are working hard to become the best team that they can. I am confident in Chase's ability to lead this offense. I have it from a good inside source, that the men are confident in him also. 

I don't know how this all got bold, I guess I am emphasizing my point!

[firstdown]

WABCOL86 - with all due respect, Belton came under a lot of pressure from OWU d line.  As I noted earlier, he reacted properly and was far better off taking the sacks than throwing up wounded ducks and being intercepted.  He was quite effective in seeing that his receivers being well covered by the OWU defenders.  The game was well under control, so why take chances?  I think that shows maturity on his part rather than trying to force something that isn't there.  If you think back to the Wabash vs Wittenberg playoff game in 2002, Blair Hammer sacked the Witt quarterback  forcing and recovering a fumble.  Jake Knott came in a tossed a quick touchdown pass.  Wabash kicked off and on Witt's first offensive play, Hammer was once again in the Witt quarterback's face, and this time took away the ball and ran for about a 30 yard touchdown.  This gave Wabash 14 points in about 25 seconds.  I have no doubt that Coach Finchem would rather have given up 2 quarterback sacks than given away 14 points.  We all want to see another Wabash win over Witt in November.  However, there are a lot of games yet to be played before we get there.  Mr. Belton and the team as a whole are off to a good start.  The only focus now is another good game on Saturday against in Maroons at Stagg Field.

[short]

We also are sick of losing to Witt (although they were close games, they were still losses) 

If it's all about Witt...take the comparative score.  Wabash beat OWU by more than Witt did and didn't have to pull away late to do it.  Rejoice! 

34 minus 13 is 21 on the road Wally. Rejoice in that?

[cave2bens]

WTH?  Had Mr Belton lofted the ball to the sidelines, avoiding the sacks, the NCAC Zebras would have produced a hankie procession.  Hmmm - 51 yds in losses or arbitrary enforcement of selective perception (was an eligible receiver near by?), translating into lost yardage and lost downs.  "You make the call."   

As said earlier, this is a team game (thanks Bash Dad - 84).  Receivers need to make themselves available, O-Line hunkers down, QBs learn to check off more quickly, and all will be right in the (Wally) World. 

[wally_wabash]

We also are sick of losing to Witt (although they were close games, they were still losses) 

If it's all about Witt...take the comparative score.  Wabash beat OWU by more than Witt did and didn't have to pull away late to do it.  Rejoice! 

34 minus 13 is 21 on the road Wally. Rejoice in that?

That's my bad.  For some reason I had 30-13 in my head.  Nice catch. 

[Li'l Giant]

Chase is our starting quarterback. ER has him out there for a reason. I'm not sure why everyone has to second guess ER on this ONE decision. Well, I have an idea.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with my brother yesterday when we talked about Tim Tebow getting reps at WR in the Broncos game at his request. I said "if Tebow had been black he'd have been forced into being a WR long ago. Steve Young and Jake Locker are allowed to be scrambling quarterbacks. Antwaan Randle-El and Pat White get called "athletes" and moved outside."

I certainly don't know more about football or our team than ER. I'll trust that he has the best player at each position possible. It's easy to trust him when our quarterback throws 4 TD passes and leads us to a 2-0 record to start the year.

[ADL70]

#14 Matt Hudson -  FIRST TWO GAMES OF 2009 SEASON
Denison    16-27-1    59.3    254    3    35    0-0    167.54
Chicago    12-22-2    54.5    273    4    77    0-0    200.60
TOTALS      28-49-3     57.1  527    7      77     0-0


#13 Chase Belton - FIRST TWO GAMES OF 2011 SEASON
College of Wooster    17-35-2    48.6    244    1    45    1-3    105.13
Ohio Wesleyan Univ.    13-20-0    65.0    252    4    54    7-51    236.84
TOTALS                    30-55-2    54.5    496    5    54    8-54    153.03

*Sacks in bold.

For NCAA stats sacks don't figure into the QB rating and the yards lost come off rushing not passing yardage.

[BashDad]

#14 Matt Hudson -  FIRST TWO GAMES OF 2009 SEASON
Denison    16-27-1    59.3    254    3    35    0-0    167.54
Chicago    12-22-2    54.5    273    4    77    0-0    200.60
TOTALS      28-49-3     57.1  527    7      77     0-0


#13 Chase Belton - FIRST TWO GAMES OF 2011 SEASON
College of Wooster    17-35-2    48.6    244    1    45    1-3    105.13
Ohio Wesleyan Univ.    13-20-0    65.0    252    4    54    7-51    236.84
TOTALS                    30-55-2    54.5    496    5    54    8-54    153.03

*Sacks in bold.

For NCAA stats sacks don't figure into the QB rating and the yards lost come off rushing not passing yardage.

I'm aware of that. What are you getting at?

[WABCOL86]

So, because Chase is black, we are downing him?   Look, you don't know me, but my suite mates in college were Chris Whitfield and Ray Sanford, varsity basketball players from Detroit.  So no, in my case, race has nothing to do with it.  I just want the best possible outcomes for 'Bash football.

I was at the game, watching it all go down.  There would have been no hankie procession if he throws it out of bounds unless it doesn't pass line of scrimage or no eligible receiver present- and in every case but one out of the seven sacks he had the time to get rid of it but DIDN'T.  SO the negative yardage could have been avoided and possibly, if less happy feet were involved, he could have checked down.  Maybe, who knows?  I hope there are corrections and we get even better.  4 touch downs is great!  He might have had more, if he had checked down.  We didn't need the possible points aginst OWU, thank God!  In the future, only He knows.

I agree that there is the possibility of this being another very special Wabash team.  Maybe that's why I get so worried about "little things."  I really want to see Wabash get to the same place UWW or Mount Union is at.  In order to get there you work hard on correcting issues and mistakes.  As good as we were, we can always get better.  OWU D-line was good, but we came out blowing them off the line and creating on offense.  Then they adjusted and the offensive show slowed down.  That is one thing to look at and correct so we continue to grow and improve.  The D is good, and the Hodges brothers are impressive.  We just need to stay healthy and keep up the weekly improvement.

WAF!

[Li'l Giant]

Look, you don't know me, but my suite mates in college were Chris Whitfield and Ray Sanford, varsity basketball players from Detroit.  So no, in my case, race has nothing to do with it.

You're right: I don't know you. But I can read. Your first sentence quoted above does not affect the second. Having black roommates in college, or even a black man as the best man at your wedding, does not mean that football fans writ large have not been socialized to treat black quarterbacks differently than white ones. Or have different expectations of black quarterbacks than white ones.

It was less than a month ago that ESPN the Magazine raised this issue as it relates to how Michael Vick is perceived. Your college roommates don't account for the way Vick, Vince Young, Pat White, Atwaan Randle-El, Reggie McNeal, or Kordell Stewart got treated. My comment wasn't just about what you say or mean about Chase. It was about the societal attitude toward black QBs and where they "belong" on the football field and how that is a relevant aspect of this conversation.

I certainly can't look at the stats or his W-L record and figure out why Chase is getting the ration of $#!% he's getting. Something else is clearly going on here. And you can roll your eyes all you want at me but I'm not afraid to point it out.

[WABCOL86]

Well, you are welcome to your assessment.  But while the mentioned gentlemen were all pretty darn good QB's in college, for whatever reason that doesn't seem to translate into NFL success.  Want to know why Tebow didn't get switched automatically?  Because he was a number one draft choice for one reason, and he won two national championships.  Vick and Young didn't get switched out, did they?  How about Danny Edelman who was a QB in college and now a WR?  Generally running QB's don't make it in the NFL.  You will notice that Montana wasn't strictly as pocket passer either, but Steve Young never really found success until he cured the happy feet  he said so himself).  That is the key to my whole argument anyway.  Running can be great, but you need to be able to learn to read defenses and progressions to be a truly successful quarterback.  Escapability is a really nice extra.  Chase has a darn good arm!  I want to see him grow into a great quarterback who makes running a last resort.

And yep, I can roll my eyes if'n I want to...

[Li'l Giant]

Vick and Vince Young didn't get switched but it sure got discussed a lot. Any white QBs have to defend not getting switched to RB or WR like they have? And Steve Young was given the time to develop without jumping the gun making him an RB (as was proposed for Chase on this very board). If you won't see how different the treatment is, I'm not going to waste my time trying to point it out to you.