FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[wabndy]

Following the discussion here on and off over the last few weeks.  I've picked up a snippet of a few things that I wanted get clarification on.  Forgive me if they've been discussed recently - I just don't feel like reading back through 1376 pages of discussion:

1) What is the current NCAC tiebreaker criteria for the AQ?
2) Did I renewed correctly that the NCAC/UAA playing contract was not renewed and that we will have a full round-robin schedule with room for only 1 non-conference game?
3) If true, how the devil are UAA going to fill up the first 6-7 games in their schedule?
4) When are the 2012 schedules released?
5) Is it true that Hawaii has been offered membership in the Big East?

(Sorry - made the last one up - but in these crazy times . . .)

[wally_wabash]

Following the discussion here on and off over the last few weeks.  I've picked up a snippet of a few things that I wanted get clarification on.  Forgive me if they've been discussed recently - I just don't feel like reading back through 1376 pages of discussion:

1) What is the current NCAC tiebreaker criteria for the AQ?
2) Did I renewed correctly that the NCAC/UAA playing contract was not renewed and that we will have a full round-robin schedule with room for only 1 non-conference game?
3) If true, how the devil are UAA going to fill up the first 6-7 games in their schedule?
4) When are the 2012 schedules released?
5) Is it true that Hawaii has been offered membership in the Big East?

(Sorry - made the last one up - but in these crazy times . . .)

I can help with some of this...

1- I'll have to run back through the posts and find it.  Basically, it isn't going to matter this year.  Unless Denison beats Wabash and Wabash beats Witt and we wind up with four teams with one loss.  Don't think about that too hard...your head might explode. 

2- In 2013, the NCAC will go to a full round robin.  That is correct. 

3- No idea...probably the same way they filled games before the NCAC threw them a bone (which I imagine wasn't trivial).  There's some murmurming out there about a possible partnership with what's left of the SCAC, but that's really only two teams (Trinity and Austin).  The UAA is going to have to get creative and also start traveling around a little bit. 

4- Here you go.  Here's 2013 and 2014 for good measure. 

5- Maybe?  It still won't save their BCS access which is goneski after 2013.   

[smedindy]

From what I know:

1. I think, THINK, it's first head to head, then based on common opponents in order of power ranking (worst to best). That's a conjecture.
2: 2012 is the last year of the UAA / NCAC agreement. The NCAC will play a full-round robin in 2013.
3. Lord, I don't know, though the SCAC needs them some games too!
4. The NCAC has schedules up through 2014 (for the conference games - I don't know if they will post the one non-conference game) here:
http://www2.northcoast.org/mediacenter/futurescheds

[ExTartanPlayer]

1) Can't help you, but I'm sure one of the 'Bash guys knows (although I don't think it will matter much this year; barring an unforeseen upset, the head-to-head winner of Bash/Witt will win outright).

2) I believe that is correct, but I don't think that takes effect until 2013 (per the CMU website's 2012 schedule, we are still playing a bunch of NCAC schools).

3) The same way that they did before the NCAC agreement.  Admittedly, the NCAC agreement was very good to the UAA schools, and it was really nice to have the schedule mostly filled, but we've always managed in the past.  Most likely, WashU will look to some CCIW and IIAC schools, as will Chicago.  CWRU will probably try to grab an OAC school, possibly some MIAA opponents, and some NCAC and PAC schools.  CMU will probably look to the PAC, Centennial Conference, and perhaps further north to Liberty League and/or Empire 8 schools.

4) Some are already out, although they can obviously continue to change.

5) Hey, you never know...I'm really upset by the overall happenings in Division I football, with everyone abandoning some more "logical" conference choices for the biggest dollar sign...

[ExTartanPlayer]

Sorry for the UAA hijack, but it's pertinent to the recent discussion.
Here was the CMU schedule for the last few years pre-scheduling-agreement:

2007: Rochester, Grove City, Hobart, Allegheny, Randolph-Macon, (UAA), Bethany, Washington & Lee

Games: 2 Liberty League, 2 PAC, 1 NCAC, 2 ODAC

2006: Hiram, Grove City, Westminster, Franklin & Marshall, Colorado, (UAA), Bethany, Thiel

Games: 4 PAC, 1 NCAC, 1 Centennial, 1 SCAC (now-defunct Colorado)

I expect that CMU will be able to go back to the well with some PAC schools, probably will be able to keep 1-2 games vs. NCAC schools (I'd like to see the Allegheny series continue), and perhaps will continue with the ODAC schools (played a home-and-home with Catholic in 2011-12, and we've played some in the past).

[ExTartanPlayer]

On the flip side of that - I wonder how many NCAC schools will continue scheduling the UAA teams for their lone nonconference game?  I assume that 'Bash and Witt (rightly so) will seek out a tougher (or at least bigger-name) opponent, perhaps looking to the OAC or CCIW.  It might appeal to some of the league's middle tier (Wooster, Allegheny, perhaps Denison/Oberlin).  Hard to figure if Kenyon, Hiram, and OWU will want to continue or not - on one hand, it's a nice geographic fit, but on the other hand they've really struggled to compete (although that's true for them against pretty much anybody) and they might prefer to grab a low-end PAC or MIAA school in search of a competitive game.

[wally_wabash]

Here's the last tiebreak situation that I've seen on the board....

"1. Head-to-Head result(s) between tied teams."

"2. Result(s) versus individual opponents examined in descending order, individually, until tie is broken. The tied teams must have a common opponent in order for the result to be considered; if not a common opponent, move to the next team in the standings. The first team to have beaten a higher-ranked team that is a common opponent wins the tiebreaker.

"If the tie is not broken in the descending order review, start from the bottom of the standings and examine opponents in ascending order. The first team to have lost to a lower-ranked team loses the tiebreaker (no common opponent provision in ascending review)."

"3. The team with the fewest losses in conference away games."

"4. The team with the higher preseason power ranking used to determine conference schedule. This provision would not apply if a tiebreaker had been used to separate the teams in final power ranking."

"5. The team with the longest active winning streak in conference play at the end of the season."

"6. The team that has not participated in the NCAA playoffs for the longest period of years ("Rose Bowl rule")."

"7. Coin Toss. When three or more teams are tied, the same procedure shall be followed until one team is eliminated. The process shall then be repeated until one team emerges.

I believe that dates back to something like 2006.  There may be some changes, but I don't think so.  I'm pretty sure this is how they roll. 

[smedindy]

On the flip side of that - I wonder how many NCAC schools will continue scheduling the UAA teams for their lone nonconference game?  I assume that 'Bash and Witt (rightly so) will seek out a tougher (or at least bigger-name) opponent, perhaps looking to the OAC or CCIW.  It might appeal to some of the league's middle tier (Wooster, Allegheny, perhaps Denison/Oberlin).  Hard to figure if Kenyon, Hiram, and OWU will want to continue or not - on one hand, it's a nice geographic fit, but on the other hand they've really struggled to compete (although that's true for them against pretty much anybody) and they might prefer to grab a low-end PAC or MIAA school in search of a competitive game.

I can see Wooster or OWU facing Case, and Gheny treking to C-M. The issue is that those games have to be either week 1 or 2, as the NCAC round robin is weeks 3 through 11. So UAA teams will have two NCAC games at most after 2012.

[GRIZ_BACKER]

On the flip side of that - I wonder how many NCAC schools will continue scheduling the UAA teams for their lone nonconference game?  I assume that 'Bash and Witt (rightly so) will seek out a tougher (or at least bigger-name) opponent, perhaps looking to the OAC or CCIW.  It might appeal to some of the league's middle tier (Wooster, Allegheny, perhaps Denison/Oberlin).  Hard to figure if Kenyon, Hiram, and OWU will want to continue or not - on one hand, it's a nice geographic fit, but on the other hand they've really struggled to compete (although that's true for them against pretty much anybody) and they might prefer to grab a low-end PAC or MIAA school in search of a competitive game.

I think Bash should stay in state.  I can think of an opponent just south of Indy that would love a home and away series and only an 90 minutes away. 

[bashbrother]

On the flip side of that - I wonder how many NCAC schools will continue scheduling the UAA teams for their lone nonconference game?  I assume that 'Bash and Witt (rightly so) will seek out a tougher (or at least bigger-name) opponent, perhaps looking to the OAC or CCIW.  It might appeal to some of the league's middle tier (Wooster, Allegheny, perhaps Denison/Oberlin).  Hard to figure if Kenyon, Hiram, and OWU will want to continue or not - on one hand, it's a nice geographic fit, but on the other hand they've really struggled to compete (although that's true for them against pretty much anybody) and they might prefer to grab a low-end PAC or MIAA school in search of a competitive game.

I think Bash should stay in state.  I can think of an opponent just south of Indy that would love a home and away series and only an 90 minutes away. 

I for one,  think this is a great idea Griz_Backer..... I enjoyed the competitive nature of the earlier series and believe it would be great for both programs in the future. 

[GRIZ_BACKER]

On the flip side of that - I wonder how many NCAC schools will continue scheduling the UAA teams for their lone nonconference game?  I assume that 'Bash and Witt (rightly so) will seek out a tougher (or at least bigger-name) opponent, perhaps looking to the OAC or CCIW.  It might appeal to some of the league's middle tier (Wooster, Allegheny, perhaps Denison/Oberlin).  Hard to figure if Kenyon, Hiram, and OWU will want to continue or not - on one hand, it's a nice geographic fit, but on the other hand they've really struggled to compete (although that's true for them against pretty much anybody) and they might prefer to grab a low-end PAC or MIAA school in search of a competitive game.

Beats scheduling Whitewater this year and Mount Union for the next two.

I think Bash should stay in state.  I can think of an opponent just south of Indy that would love a home and away series and only an 90 minutes away. 

I for one,  think this is a great idea Griz_Backer..... I enjoyed the competitive nature of the earlier series and believe it would be great for both programs in the future.

[smedindy]

Franklin would be great. Wabash also used to have great games against Hanover. Rose-Hulman would also be a choice for a nearby quasi-rival.

Personally, I'd love to see the scrimmage against Wheaton converted into an actual game.

My choice for the entire league would be to schedule a strong, yet competitive, opponent for the non-conference game. Maybe not the Purple, but a good team that can help the NCAC in it's SOS and increase the chances of a 9-1 runner-up locking down a "C" without question, and perhaps even a very strong 8-2 team if they lose to an upper-echelon CCIW or OAC team. Down the line, a team like Hiram or Kenyon can find winnable games in the MIAA, HCAC or PrAC for sure. (In fact, Kenyon is playing Earlham in 2013 and 2014, and Allegheny is facing Carnegie - Mellon in those years as well, which fit into my idea already).

I do know it's going to be fun looking at the 2013 schedules and seeing who landed who in Weeks 1 & 2.

[Li'l Giant]

Personally, I'd love to see the scrimmage against Wheaton converted into an actual game.

Agree.

[Wabash Hokie]

Game notes for the Denison game have been posted:

http://sports.wabash.edu/documents/2011/10/19/ReleaseOct192011.pdf?id=31

[smedindy]

I have noticed that Wabash concludes its 2012, 2013 and 2014 seasons like 2011 - the Tiger / Tiger two-step.

What I don't like is that in Week 10 in 2013 and 2014, DPU faces Hiram. I know they have to play them (and maybe the Terriers will have improved a bit), but still there's a big chasm in gearing up for the Bell game with Wittenberg vs. Hiram.