FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[utahgetme2]

http://www.kenyoncollegian.com/news/college-reviews-football-program-1.2657040?pagereq=1

well if they're gonna play the blame game on recruiting, wouldn't you think that this article and the review process would hurt recruiting efforts this year, along with another possible 0-10 season? just a thought.

hate to see so many excuses and finger pointing at Kenyon.  If they think they're talent level isn't as good as everyone elses but maybe they could learn a lesson from some of the service academies. They probably don't have as much talent as some of the other division 1 schools they play but they tailor their schemes so they can stay competitive.

Oberlin has done a good job this season, being one of the top academic schools in the country and is pretty expensive and they've done it with a limited roster.  And they're competing with the same NESCAC and Ivy schools as well....

[sigma one]

RE:  Kenyon.  Campus climate and support matter--to current players, to coaches, to recuuits and their parents.  Despite what Kenyon officials say, and they know how to say a lot without saying much of anything on this topic, Kenyon as an institution doesn't appear to care much about football:  little student support, terrible recent records, fewer coaches than many NCAC schools, etc.  When a recruit and his parents communicate with, and most importantly visit, a campus (if they get that far), they want to see some positives, something to give them hope that football receives some attention.  Say what you will, this does not seem to be happening right now at Kenyon.  There seems to be lack of enthusiasm and support from the top down (though I give them credit for studying their situation if the study is organized so that it is clear that they want to preserve and improve football).  Tough to sugar coat this.  The admissions arguments--selectivity, competition from other elite academic institutions (a bit overblown perhaps)--are diversions from the fact that Kenyon appears not to work hard enough to find players who meet their criteria.  Ten football freshmen this year.  Little hope there for improvement, even for modest success.  Please, Kenyon, you have a bunch of smart people.  Find out what you should try, and do it; don't focus on the comment that Kenyon's campus might not care enough about football to keep it around.   

[Li'l Giant]

I have nothing to add to the Kenyon conversation that hasn't already be said except the "Point Break" reference in the username (UtahGetMe2) made my evening.

[utahgetme2]

I know a great place in LA to get some meatball sandwiches...

on a serious note, how likely do you think it is this year the NCAC rep in the playoffs gets paired against an OAC team?

[wally_wabash]

I know a great place in LA to get some meatball sandwiches...

on a serious note, how likely do you think it is this year the NCAC rep in the playoffs gets paired against an OAC team?

I shook the magic 8 ball and it bounced back with "outlook not so good".  B-W has a second loss coming via Mount Union and if you go by the idea that 2-loss teams don't make the field, then you've probably got a tournament field with just Mount Union.  Mount Union will draw one of the lowest seeds in the tournament, generally a league champion with multiple losses, which the NCAC champion won't be. 

Now if you're talking about whether or not the NCAC team winds up in the same region as an OAC team, that's tougher to guess at right now.  That'll depend on which teams make the field and how the geography fits (namely if Mount Union gets grouped with eastern teams or northern teams). 

[grinnellpioneer]

I strongly agree with all of the previous comments on here about Kenyon - too many excuses. Coaches at other "highly academic" schools are getting it done (Coach Ramsey at Oberlin, Coach Debeljak at Case, Coach Maloney at Chicago to name a few), and so are coaches AT YOUR OWN INSTITUTION (swim team & tennis team anyone?)! Maybe instead of organizing a committee on how to make excuses for your program, you organize a search committee for a new head coach?

[aueagle]

Good read on the Kenyon program...Maybe CC could help in some way.
Of course, I thought of the devastating state of the OWU program.
Since 2002 - current...60 games LOST. What is the definition of insanity?
I ran into 2 head coach's from the Canton (Oh) area at a tavern last Saturday.
Big high school programs. I asked them if the Bishops have a presence with
their schools...they stated OWU was a "non-factor" in the recruiting process
for their kids. But, hey...If the Bishops win these last 3 games....once again,
we will hear about the "momentum" the program has....Insanity.

[wabco]

Early season non-conference out of region and still offering challenges match-ups?  How about Wabash vs. Hampton Sydney ... "The True Stag Bowl".   Since it is a long way, also schedule all fall sports teams against each other that weekend and provide a "Stag Head" as an all sports trophy.  As a sop to Kenyon types , include debate and Glee Clubs and perhaps an inter school art exhibit in the mix. Start with a home and home.  Fun.

[aueagle]

"....We will be an improved football team," Hollway said. "With our experience, we expect to increase
our big-play potential, eliminate big plays defensively, and improve our level of consistency on offense
and in special teams." 2011 Pre-season statement out of Delaware
Bishops are 17-6-1 versus DePauw - Last Meeting: 1991- OWU wins 21-15

[Bishopleftiesdad]

http://www.kenyoncollegian.com/news/college-reviews-football-program-1.2657040?pagereq=1

I wonder what this particular quote in the article means?

"I wonder if we should look at a different set of competitors," Nugent (President S. Georgia Nugent) said. "If there is that population that enjoys watching football, and there is a population of students who would enjoy playing football, I don't think there's a lot of concern about who the opponent is."

Does it mean they need to find a lower set of competion? How would they do that with out leaving the conference? I know in other sports they are very competive. (i.e. Swimming) In some sports such as Baseball not always so but they will have a good season often enough and make the NCAC tournament. Or does it mean making it a club or intermural?

Just curious, what do others think?

[short]

"Both in curriculum and the co-curriculum," Toutain said, "resource limitations make it impossible to accommodate every interest, and the college has to make choices as to how many and which majors or sports it can realistically support." Student Activities and the athletic department fund club sports, but the budgets are much smaller than those available to varsity sports.
Men's Frisbee for instance, a team that has recently had impressive results at national tournaments, requires players to pay for their own jerseys and food for away games".


When your Campus leaders start comparing football and "Men's Frisbee" your in big trouble!

[ExTartanPlayer]

Nice catch, bishopleftiesdad.

With all due respect to the top of the NCAC ('Bash and Witt), if you aren't competitive with the bottom half of the NCAC, where exactly are you going to find competition?  The only D3 conferences that really offer any "lesser" competition than the bottom of the NCAC are probably the NEFC, ECFC, and UMAC - none of which is a realistic option for Kenyon without driving 8+ hours to most conference opponents.

Also, you make a good point that the conference is a good fit in all other sports.  This isn't Division I, where football TV dollars are behind every decision to change conferences.  Leaving a conference that's a fine fit for all other sports solely for the football team's sake would be the height of athletic-department douchery.

[aueagle]

I recall reading a NY Times article (yrs ago) on D3 football that made an inference
about some schools adopting a club-style program. I just get nervous when I see the
NCAC playing the UAA...like there might be a back-door deal going on. The bottom-feeders
in the conference, (Kenyon, Ohio Wesleyan, Oberlin) have to step-up...
Ya gotta be careful of the leaders on America's campi...a former OWU prez wanted all frats abolished and football was, for all purposes...de-emphasized

[smedindy]

Although campus presidents know that to get male students, you need football. And the competition for qualified male students is fierce.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

Not sure of the size of the recruiting classes at OWU, but I know the school, as a whole, has a reputation of letting in students that may not be capabale of the work. How many Freshman are around as a Soph for footbal? Doesn't seem to be many.

I would love to see OWU get good again. Especially while my son is there. He went to the first several games and then stopped going. One of his team mates from the baseball team plays football as well and he and most of the baseball team was there to support him. Now he can use the time better by getting homework, studying or throwing longtoss or a bull pen session.

Heard during the recruiting process that Rock Jones really supported the sports, Hopefully that will turn to support for the recruiting process for football. When people talk about a coach not being able to recruit, how much of that is the Coach and how much of that is support from the school or athletic department. Does the coach not get the number of coaches other programs do? Does he get the travel budget to go recruit and see players, or is he revruiting on stats alone?

Now none of this is meant to be any type of allegation just asking questions.