FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[nike]

Do you guys think it would be different if the schedule were flipped and OWU started something like 3-1 and lost six in a row to close the last couple of season?

Do not think it matters.  It is who you beat.  Wooster has done it every possible way over the last few years with their wins.  I do know that it is cool still having a shot at the NCAC title and therefore the playoffs late in the season with only a couple games left. Really cool.  And the playoffs are great.  Still remember the Carthage game here with Sutton, Drushal, etc. in 2004. Should have won.  Since then live vicariously through Wabash and grudgingly through Witt come playoff time.

[wabndy]

For sure the guys at at Wabash and Witt would be replaced.

Nike,
In 1999 and 2000, Wabash went 6-4 and 5-5 and lost their 4th and 5th bell games in a row.  With those results, the head coach of 18 years with an unblemished reputation for running a clean program, who had gone 9-1 in 1998 (sole loss in the bell game), won 4 conference titles, and had amassed a record of 112-57-2, was shown the door.

That guy was a real washout.  Wonder what he's doing now?  (GO SAINTS!)

[nike]

Wait...what cloud?  Are you talking about when Creighton took over after Carlson resigned?  I don't think there was any cloud during the transition from Creighton to Raeburn...Wabash was coming off of regional final appearance and the program was humming along nicely.

You are right--I misspoke and apologize.  Memory is not what it used to be.
My point was that Raeburn has done a great job and getting someone like that for OWU or possibly a Hiram could eventually turn those programs around.

[aueagle]

wally: NO...it would not be different. The program has proven it can't beat Witt or Bash...So we get wins
over some UAA teams and COW, maybe a Gheny and call it progress? With "Expectations" should come Championships.
nike: It starts with the president of Ohio Wesleyan. When he gets on board, then the new foundation can be built.
That "scat-back" was Nick Rice...a very fine RB. Cisco was cool, but I liked Owen Case at the other def-end. The guy got hurt his Sr year...lead the Bishops in 2005 tackles..The big back & twins...can't remember.

[nike]

For sure the guys at at Wabash and Witt would be replaced.

Nike,
In 1999 and 2000, Wabash went 6-4 and 5-5 and lost their 4th and 5th bell games in a row.  With those results, the head coach of 18 years with an unblemished reputation for running a clean program, who had gone 9-1 in 1998 (sole loss in the bell game), won 4 conference titles, and had amassed a record of 112-57-2, was shown the door.

That guy was a real washout.  Wonder what he's doing now?  (GO SAINTS!)

wabndy,
So was that a good thing or a bad thing they did getting rid of him?  What was the feeling of the students and alumni at the time?  Also, his record was certainly different than the coaches at OWU or Hiram.

[ExTartanPlayer]

...So we get wins over some UAA teams and COW, maybe a Gheny and call it progress?

Since 2007, OWU is 0-11 against the UAA teams, 0-5 against Wooster, and 1-4 against Allegheny.  Actually, I think wins over those teams would actually represent a LOT of progress.

You sound like a Browns fan complaining about the lack of Super Bowl titles.  How about you get to the playoffs first?

[nike]

wally: NO...it would not be different. The program has proven it can't beat Witt or Bash...So we get wins
over some UAA teams and COW, maybe a Gheny and call it progress? With "Expectations" should come Championships.
nike: It starts with the president of Ohio Wesleyan. When he gets on board, then the new foundation can be built.
That "scat-back" was Nick Rice...a very fine RB. Cisco was cool, but I liked Owen Case at the other def-end. The guy got hurt his Sr year...lead the Bishops in 2005 tackles..The big back & twins...can't remember.

The players I was talking about were all freshmen that year.  Osborn twins, Willis was the scatback I think and Adams and Walker were the two big backs. And a tight end named Raeford(thanks Northcoast archives). Anyway, they were all freshmen and I thought that the next couple years would go well for OWU.  The twins stayed, and Raeford, but don't remember ever hearing about the other players after 2005.  But I know that OWU was losing quite a few underclassmen every year.

[wally_wabash]

For sure the guys at at Wabash and Witt would be replaced.

Nike,
In 1999 and 2000, Wabash went 6-4 and 5-5 and lost their 4th and 5th bell games in a row.  With those results, the head coach of 18 years with an unblemished reputation for running a clean program, who had gone 9-1 in 1998 (sole loss in the bell game), won 4 conference titles, and had amassed a record of 112-57-2, was shown the door.

That guy was a real washout.  Wonder what he's doing now?  (GO SAINTS!)

wabndy,
So was that a good thing or a bad thing they did getting rid of him?  What was the feeling of the students and alumni at the time?  Also, his record was certainly different than the coaches at OWU or Hiram.

Reactions were mixed.  In those Bell games, especially in '99 and '00, I heard a LOT of anger (much of it from alumni) aimed at Coach Carlson.  Losing five in a row to DePauw doesn't sit well with many people.  When Carlson left, there were also a lot of voices that upset that the administration would let a guy go after 18 years as HC and by all accounts a very positive influence on campus beyond just football.  The "new guy" came in and won 20 of his first 23 games, beat Witt (twice in 2002), and got Wabash to the postseason for the first time in 25 years and a lot of those voices got quiet.  It's a sticky situation when you have to decide on going in a new direction from a guy that has that much tenure in one place.  Some are going to think that it's about time, some are going to think that you're dirtying an important person at the institution.  If/when OWU changes directions, they'll go through the same thing with some split loyalties. 

[wabashcpa]

For sure the guys at at Wabash and Witt would be replaced.

Nike,
In 1999 and 2000, Wabash went 6-4 and 5-5 and lost their 4th and 5th bell games in a row.  With those results, the head coach of 18 years with an unblemished reputation for running a clean program, who had gone 9-1 in 1998 (sole loss in the bell game), won 4 conference titles, and had amassed a record of 112-57-2, was shown the door.

That guy was a real washout.  Wonder what he's doing now?  (GO SAINTS!)

wabndy,
So was that a good thing or a bad thing they did getting rid of him?  What was the feeling of the students and alumni at the time?  Also, his record was certainly different than the coaches at OWU or Hiram.

I thought it was the right move at the time, and the subsequent tenures of Creighton and Raeburn have proven the decision to be correct.  In my opinion, the program would not be where it is today if Carlson were still around.

That said, the job he has done at St. Scholastica has been very impressive, and I wish him continued success.

[wabndy]

wabndy,
So was that a good thing or a bad thing they did getting rid of him?  What was the feeling of the students and alumni at the time?  Also, his record was certainly different than the coaches at OWU or Hiram.

I agree wholeheartedly with what wally_wabash said.  There is no doubt that Creighton brought a huge amount of enthusiasm into the program.  Jake Knott was a huge piece of that in 2001 and Carlson had worked hard to bring him to campus.  Nobody doubts that Creighton was an excellent hire who fit the program well.  I think same can be said for Raeburn.

Carlson had some undeserved journeyman years after he left Wabash.  Building a team from scratch to a 9-0 playoff bound season in 4 years has got to be one of the most impressive feats any D3 coach has ever accomplished.

Ultimately I think it rings true with most any manager: be they a coach, boss, pastor, president, or foreman, that too long at one place isn't healthy.  There are, of course, rare exceptions to that like Kerhes or Wooden.  On the other hand, a week ago I could have added Paterno's name to that list with hardly a second thought.  What a difference a week makes. 

[WABCOL86]

Agree with the last three posters.  I felt that the change was necessary, personally.  I was under Carlson as manager for the team and have nothing bad to say about him, but it just felt like a change was needed.  It panned out well...

[wabndy]

Wabash sports release is posted.
http://sports.wabash.edu/documents/2011/11/9/ReleaseNov92011.pdf?id=40

[Pat Coleman]

New regional rankings:
http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2011/11/09/second-ncaa-regional-rankings-2/

[bashbrother]

Looking at the North, there are plenty of strong football teams in the 6-10 slots.....

[wally_wabash]

New regional rankings:
http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2011/11/09/second-ncaa-regional-rankings-2/

Still a little surprised to see CWRU ahead of IWU.  I still believe pretty strongly that while the regional committee my not be putting much weight on that Rochester result, the national committee will.  I would still expect IWU to be the first at-large team on the board from the North.