FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Bishopleftiesdad]

Speaking of Coaching Searches has anybody heard a peep about Kenyon's search? Last news was Coach Stanley being forced out. Nothng since.

[aueagle]

Regarding Kenyon; Ty McGuire is still listed as the interim coach.
firstdown has nailed two of the issuees at OWU....
1) a full-time staff...monies have to be generated for the staff & other "hardware" to bring the Bishops up to the competitive level.
2) Financial Aid....this issue was brought up at a Delaware round-table yrs ago...Selby Field & the admissions office needs to be more seamless....
I'm not saying an "open-door policy", but, let's at least get on the same page.
Still looking for a Mount Union disciple....Kenyon asst Ricky Ciccone has the pedigree...but...young at 28.
I'm pulling the OWU helmet out of the garage and placing it in the study....it has the Battling Bishop on both sides...
I'm thinking it will be good luck....karma for the Red & Black

[ExTartanPlayer]

...a full-time staff...monies have to be generated for the staff & other "hardware" to bring the Bishops up to the competitive level.

Relevant question here:

What's the "coaching" picture like at Ohio Wesleyan (and in the NCAC at large)?  When I say that, what I mean is "How many full-time coaches do most of the NCAC schools have?" 

Carnegie Mellon had three while I was there (head coach & both coordinators) and added a fourth full-time position in 2008 to serve as a "jack-of-all-trades" (serving as a position coach plus as strength coach, video coordinator, recruiting coordinator).

At the opposite end of the spectrum, I think that the NEFC schools generally have zero full-time coaches; even the head coaching jobs are part-time positions.

[nike]

Was not at all suggesting that Hallett would leave or should leave Heidelberg for OWU.  But there are certainly coaches out there like him that could do at OWU what he did at Heidelberg.  OWU I would think has a bigger budget to work with.
And they have to get it right.  Looks like Akron U is not getting the guy they should have gotten two years ago from Wayne State.  Great track record coaching and a former Zip gridiron great, Paul Winters.  But two years ago Akron took another Notre Dame guy, when they probably could have had Winters, whom a lot of alumni and former players wanted.  Akron was 2-22 last two years, now Winters staying at Wayne State after taking Wayne State to championship game this year.  Don't blame him.  This year's run could eventually lead to bigger things.
Did Hollway voluntarily retire or was he asked to retire, OWU folks?

[The_Bishop]

Did Hollway voluntarily retire or was he asked to retire, OWU folks?

Trying to piece various tidbits of information together from speaking with some current/former coaches and former teammates.  One thing I look at that speaks volumes is the official OWU press release:  How many times does a coach who retires not get quoted in the presser?

[nike]

Did Hollway voluntarily retire or was he asked to retire, OWU folks?

Trying to piece various tidbits of information together from speaking with some current/former coaches and former teammates.  One thing I look at that speaks volumes is the official OWU press release:  How many times does a coach who retires not get quoted in the presser?

Very good observation. 
Hope they find the right guy.  8,000 or 9,000 at Selby at night would be a blast. 

[sigma one]

Well, full-time, part-time, volunteer coaches at NCAC institutions varies a bit.  Just looking at the football pages for the NCAC schools tells an incomplete story, but. . .Here are the number of coaches listed on each site:  Allegheny (9), Denison (11), DePauw (8), Hiram (9), Kenyon (7, with only an interim head coach, so the number might actually be 8), Oberlin (8), Wabash (9) Wittenberg (14), Wooster (9).  Notice, I did not list Ohio Wesleyan.  Their football site contains only the information on one coach:  the now-no-longer head coach.  I might have missed the others, but that's all that's listed under coaching staff.  This is not to say how the coaches are distributed among full-time, part-time, and volunteer.  I know that Wabash, for instance, has four full-time coaches, 3 coaching "interns" (who the players think of in the same way they think of all other coaches), and two part-time coaches to make up the staff.  Seven of these coaches are "on the road" to recruit.  That's significant.  From a players' perspective (coaches out there, and players, do you agree?) an important consideration is who is out there at practice every day and who travels with the team.  Squad size also has to be taken as a factor:  how many coaches coaching how many players.  By the way, and I know what we all mean when we talk about financial aid and cooperation between athletics and the admissions office, but we also all know that Division III cannot offer any sports-related financial aid.  The NCAA does an audit of institutional financial aid offices each year to monitor this requirement.  Yes, we can get into what the requirement means and which schools we think are in compliance, I'm just saying that the NCAA tries to exercise diligence in this regard.  There's always a fraction of folks who think that school A or school B is finding a way to, um, get around the rule.  Of course, who gets in, which sports, if any, get "help" from the admissions office--that's another discussion.  Even the extremely selective NESCAC favors some athleltes in the admissions process.  Most NCAC schools, I'm guessing, make adjustments for all kinds of students--some more than others.  Certainly, it helps if there is a good working relationship between athletics and admissions, though tensions always exist.  Everyone mentions administrative suppport, and in my opinion that's the real key--oh, and I would add campus climate.  Oberlin is not Wabash; Kenyon is not Wittenberg in the way students, faculty, and administration support teams and athletes.  Nothing wrong with that in the big picture, but it's important to athletes and coaches.

[sigma one]

I just found another football page for Ohio Wesleyan that lists Six coaches.  As with the other schools, who knows how complete or up to date sites are, what with busy SIDs and all.  If this site is accurate, OWU is employing fewer coaches that any other NCAC member.

[skunks_sidekick]

In my opinion, to get an "up and comer" who has a Mount pedigree, OWU is going to have to make a serious committment to the football program.  That committment includes upping the staff, and working with the head coach regarding admissions. 

Wonder if Vince Kehres would be interested? 

[firstdown]

Sigma One - in my comments about a cooperative atmosphere, I didn't mean to suggest that a coach be provided any undue or inappropriate influenece in the financial aid or admissions process.  Rather,  there needs to be good lines of communications so that the coaching staff has the general information at hand like the website to file an application, how to apply for a hardship waiver of the application fee,  when FAFSA filings are due, and the timing for aid packages, and having a contact person that they can direct a recruit or their family to quickly when questions arise.  Coaches are a primary point of contact for recruits and they will receive all kinds of questions.  For example, a recruit could be homeless, or living in a foster home, or have a single parent that works odd hours and can only speak with someone in admissions or financial aid outside of normal business hours.  Having a protocol in place to refer the matter  beforehand will save a coach hours of time trying to locate the appropriate person to respond.  It also makes the recruit feel wanted and that their situations are being addressed.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

Firstdown, My son was recruited fro Baseball at OWU. I can tell you at least as far as the Baseball program all you decribe is true at OWU. The coach was very helpfull and quickly answered any questions or pointed us in the correct direction when we had questions or concerns. My sons acedemic profile fit well within or at the top end of their parameters so Addmission was never an issue. It was pretth clear before he applied that he would be accepted, so the coach did not have to help that along in any way. I would have to assume the same would go for Football as well but I could be wrong.

[formerd3db]

Exellent post A.E. Moose.  Although I don't know the exact situation at Kenyon, I agree with your comments.  Ironically, you and I have the same opinion on the "Swarthemore Debacle" and the situation you are discussing in analogous to the debate going on now at Calvin College of our MIAA, which is considering starting a football program, something they have resisted for decades.  See my post over on the MIAA board in relation to yours here.  Thanks for your take on the situation.  I agree with you that I hope Kenyon does not drop their program - there is no reason why they can't have a successful program.  Our Olivet is very similar - they've had their "ups and downs" in over 120+ years of football, however, it is a very important and integral part of the college and its overall educational program for today's students and our future leaders.  Besides, as you say, having programs and competitive teams (even if some have long droughts in not winning their respective league's title) is good for the entire league.  Just my $0.02 worth.

[Anon E Moose]

Being fresh (relatively) off the recruiting trail that included 4 stops in the NCAC, I can give you my perspective on what I saw during my son's visits. First, I concur with Bishopleftiesdad regarding the OWU admissions & financial aid process. Straightforward, prompt & helpful. The school was nice enough. However, two things. There were a lot of underclassmen on the team and not many seniors (in fact the two players who hosted my son weren't on the team this year) and I had a gut feeling that Coach Holloway was going to bow out after year 25. He struck me as a very decent man. But OWU seemed committed to the program and Selby was definitely a cool stadium. It just wasn't the right fit for my son.

At Kenyon, there was a completely different vibe. Its interesting that Smediny mentioned Swarthmore in his post:

Kenyon is the concern of course. I would have loved to see their sabbatical from the NCAC bring success like it finally did in Puget Sound, but after that one season it was back to the same ol' same ol'. I would hate to see Kenyon pull a Swarthmore and be done with football. I can't see Hiram doing that - they would have dropped it a long time ago if they weren't committed to at least having a team.

   
The first thing I said to my son when we left campus was that I had a flashback to a recruiting visit I made to Swarthmore. The commitment to the program didn't seem to be there. My son didn't really like the players he met. Its the only school he visited that he just didn't care for. My take was they continued the program mostly because they had been playing football for a long time. Although it's after the fact, I also found their press release of a couple of months back rationalizing why they don't have good teams to have been insulting and elitist. The place just oozed Swarthmore. (Remember, Swarthmore dropped their program during a period when they were relatively competitive in the Centennial)   I wouldn't be surprised if they either dropped football in the near future or pulled a Macalester and played a low level independent schedule. ( I would hope they don't)

Personally, I hope all the teams field competitive squads. Its better for the league. Plus remember, the league is supposed to be of benefit to all 10 teams, not just the top 1 or 2. Plus, if I'm making a long drive, I want to see a good game 

If any of you are really interested in the recruiting differences, drop me a PM and I'll fill you in. It was really a pretty fascinating experience and there were definitely differences in approach between the NCAC, the Centennial and the Liberty League schools he visited.

[sigma one]

firstdown and others: never meant to suggest that OWU or any other school was playing fast and loose with admissions and financial aid.  I do think that a good working relationship between athletics and admissions is crucial; admissions wants the best students it can find, and coaches play, or should play, a huge role in the process.  Its interesting to know how many of a school's freshmen had significant contact with coaches on the way in, even if they do not end up on a roster.  Football is more or less important at most institutions because it is such a numbers game.  Of course, there are a few places selective enough and with enough prestige that they don't have to rely on the coaches to make their class every, or most, years.  It's certain that Kenyon, for example, is this way, and so their admissions' decisions are not in the least dependent upon the coaches working hard to find student-athletes.  Oberlin, too.  One has to wonder about recent years when a very small number of freshmen appear on some schools' football roster.  What does this mean in terms of the relationship between admissions and football?  Does it mean that somewhere on campus there is an indifference to the success of the football team?  Probably so.  Does it mean that coaches become discourage about recruiting, knowing that students will not come, or will not be admitted?  Maybe, though I've never know a coach who didn't want to win.  Whether in certain instances coaches just don't know how to recruit good talent in sufficient numbers is always an interesting question.  Like the others who post here, I'd sure like to see a more balanced NCAC.  Given some schools' attention to football, and others' indifference to its success, that's not likely to happen soon, I'd guess.  You can't start a season with 50-60 players on a roster, or even fewer, and expect in an average year, to field a competitive team (special props to Oberlin this year, and in most years).  You can fill rosters in other sports and some years be competitive because you just don't need as many healthy, talented athletes.  We've recently seen Kenyon administrators say that they just don't have a football culture.  OK, if that's their decision.  Too bad, however, that you slight the players who try so hard (and the coaches you've hired to represent you), and what kind of message are they sending to players whom the coaches want to recruit?  Every school makes decisions about what it wants to look like, even about how important a successful, winning sports program is to the campus, alumni, etc.  Kenyon values swimming.  Since this is a football board, we all want schools to care about football success.  Some apparently just do not.

[smedindy]

I don't think you necessarily have to have a football culture, but you need to support the players you recruit and support your coaches who bring these valued male students to campus.

You don't need to whine about things in the press about the NESCAC. And maybe you wouldn't lose football players to the NESCAC if you gave your current program some more institutional support.

I don't think I've seen or heard any complaints from Hiram or Oberlin like this in the recent past. Both of those schools face the same or similar challenges as Kenyon yet they doggedly keep trying to improve.