FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[smedindy]

In 2005, Kenyon went 6-1 in league play. 

And their league records the next 3 years were 3-4, 1-6 and 0-7. I realize that COY isn't about the future, and they certainly look better this year, but before we say their program has made a leap I'd like to see something sustained.

It's still a jump from an abyss to an chasm.

And in my edit to the above I stated that I'm flummoxed about the 2007 season when it started out decently (whacking Grinnell and losing a close one to C-M-S).

[firstdown]

Sigma

Your points well taken.  Despite the set backs, Wooster still has teeth and while the folks on this board are looking down the road, the Little Giants won't.  I expect a good game in Crawfordsville on Saturday.

[smedindy]

Next year we won't have this foolishness about the schedule, thankfully.

In any round-robin in football, you'll probably have 0-8 and 1-7 teams more often than not. Yet, those teams need to at least be able to compete and not be automatically counted out of every game AND win or be competitive in their non-conference game. Next year, if Kenyon is 2-6 in the league and 3-7 overall but fairly competitive with most teams in not named Witt and Wabash then I still think it's a leap forward that can be sustained. Hopefully Kenyon can follow the model of Heidelberg.

I just hope we can have teams that can occasionally escape the side of the street that Wilmington is on in the OAC. 

[Li'l Giant]

I just hope we can have teams that can occasionally escape the side of the street that Wilmington is on in the OAC. 

Or North Park in the CCIW. They haven't won a conference game since Bill Clinton was in the White House.

[smedindy]

I just looked at North Park's football history.

Their last .500 season was 4-4-1 in 1993
Their last WINNING season was 1968 (6-3).
Their last CONSECUTIVE winning seasons were 1958 (7-1) and 1959 (6-1-1).

Say what you will about Kenyon and Hiram, they're not that moribund. Hiram had a winning season in 1988 and had three winning seasons in a row (1986-88).

[nike]

Espinosa/Belton for OPOY...Espinosa is accumulating stats through sheer volume.  And STILL Chase Belton has more passing TDs than does Espinosa, and Belton leads the league in rushing TDs.  This isn't a competition right now.  If Belton starts missing games and Espinosa's production doesn't wane as the competition level gets bumped up (a lot) over the last month of the season here, then there may be a compelling conversation in November.  At the moment, I don't think it is very close.
[/quote]

Agree that Belton is out in front, as I said.  No question.  Was just looking at the player who was having a season worthy of at least consideration.  Would take Espinosa over everyone except Belton at QB this year.   
Last year OWU was 1-5 at this juncture.  Pretty good turn around--so far.  Have a hunch their offense will score enough againt CM to be in this game.  Espinosa can flat out throw.  We shall see.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

And looked what happened to Kenyon and Stanley in the following years.
This may apply to OWU as well we will see. But how much of Kenyon is due to a change, any change. I know this is not Baseball but you see it all the time. New manager comes in and suddenly the team starts winning. Many times that cannot be sustained. Next year will help show what both of these programs are made of.

Again I am not dismissing what OWU and Kenyon has done and I am Optimistic that both teams will keep improving.

As far as OWU goes. I have a boy in the Baseball program and recently especially since the mens soccer team won the National championship there has been a stronger push in for athletic teams to perform.

In baseball this year they had a recruiting class of 25. In the previous 4 years the high was 12, and most likely around 7-9. I cannot say for sure but I have heard hearsay that it is hte same for many of the other athletic programs at OWU.

[BashBacker#16]

the_Bishop - sorry for being hyper-sensitive but Hokie hit the nail on the head commenting on the Zima link with DePauw... 

Congrats to former Wabash running back Chris Morris '04 for being inducted in to the Wabash Hall of Fame - scheduled the night before the Bell game on November 9th.  "C-Mo" was a big part of the Jake Knott offense (2002 Wabash Elite 8 squad)...

[BashBacker#16]

BishopleftiesDad,

Another point to add regarding a program making "the turn," Espo has definitely been the driver for them in the games they've won, it will be interesting to see what happens after he graduates (I realize he is only a Junior).  Look at the Sutton impact to Wooster and what they have done (ow what they haven't done!) since he graduated!!! 

I also think this Wooster/Wabash game will be interesting.  It can go either way and I think the key for Bash is to jump out early.  If they get a lead, I can't see Woo climbing back in.

Regarding the OWU/Wabash game on the 27th, do the OWU guys think it will be a bigger crowd than normal?  What do they average in home attendance?  I'd guess we will see a slight uptick but I don't think they are magically going to fill the stadium.

[sigma one]

Certainly, Kenyon deserves applause for being 3-3.  Let's take a look.  Two of their wins--Earlham and Hiram--are v. teams that have 0 wins between them.  Somebody had to win those games!  Kudos to Kenyon for doing so.  Their third win is Oberlin, and as someone pointed out, Obe that day was minus Mandel.  They have one "good" loss v. Washington U.  (good in the sense that Wash U. has a good football program).  But Wash U. is 1-5 this year.  The other losses are Bluffton (4-3) and OWU (6-0).  Where I think they have been most respectable is that you don't see any blowouts against them.  But their victims are a combined 2-16. 
     Looking at some numbers for Kenyon.  Their starting line up v. Wash U. featured 8 seniors, including the QB, RB, one WR, 3 Olinemen, a corner, and a safety.  They showed seniors at the positions where experience means something, at the "skills".  Those guys have been around for several years.  By the way, the Kenyon roster shows nine seniors; eight of them started v. Wash. U.  The roster also shows 15 freshmen; very thin.  The new staff has to improve recruiting numbers in an atmosphere where not much flexibility has been shown (except swimming?).   The defense is young, and the offense is mature.  And next year they have to replace those six seniors on offense.  Oh, and Kenyon finishes with DePauw, Allegheny, Wooster, Denison.  Any wins on the horizon?   Not that I would predict despite the records of three of those teams.   
     To me, it looks like the new head coach has led them to wins v. teams they had a legitimate chance to beat--good job.  So, 3-7, or maybe one more win (that would show us a little more), very nice, but consider the schedule.  To be even considered for COY, whoa.
   

[Bishopleftiesdad]

BishopleftiesDad,

Another point to add regarding a program making "the turn," Espo has definitely been the driver for them in the games they've won, it will be interesting to see what happens after he graduates (I realize he is only a Junior).  Look at the Sutton impact to Wooster and what they have done (ow what they haven't done!) since he graduated!!! 

I also think this Wooster/Wabash game will be interesting.  It can go either way and I think the key for Bash is to jump out early.  If they get a lead, I can't see Woo climbing back in.

Regarding the OWU/Wabash game on the 27th, do the OWU guys think it will be a bigger crowd than normal?  What do they average in home attendance?  I'd guess we will see a slight uptick but I don't think they are magically going to fill the stadium.

I wouldn't know about the crowds. I avoid the campus, since my son goes there. It is not too far away, but I want him to have his privacy and separation. I go to the baseball stuff because, hey, he is my son and I want to see him play.

My wife and other kids think I am nuts to be interested in the football team at all. They always go Why do you want to watch that on the computer. But I enjoy it so who cares. (clearly my wife and my youngest.) I am going to try and get to Selby for the Wabash game. I have always been interested in Wabash because we spent a lot of time on campus when my son was being recruited and I thought he would end up there. But that is another story. But I couldn't be happier with his choice.

I am really pleased how the Bishops are doing and hope they stay on a roll. As was posted earlier if they can tie for the conference championship that will be big. I cannot wait to see what the coaches recruiting classes look like in the future.

This year there are a few new kids on the team that are upper class men who would not have played this year if Holloway was still there. I wont go as far as to say they are big contributors but they add depth and options that would not be there if not for the coaching change. Kids clearly like Watts, and that is always a plus.

I am optimistic for the future of OWU. Rock Jones and the administration are getting behind the sports programs and I hope the future is bright.

Go Bishops

[Li'l Giant]

I just looked at North Park's football history.

Their last .500 season was 4-4-1 in 1993
Their last WINNING season was 1968 (6-3).
Their last CONSECUTIVE winning seasons were 1958 (7-1) and 1959 (6-1-1).

Say what you will about Kenyon and Hiram, they're not that moribund. Hiram had a winning season in 1988 and had three winning seasons in a row (1986-88).

That's true going back all those years. But in the years covered by this site (since 1999) North Park hasn't gone winless. Lots of 1-9 years. Six to be exact. But none winless. Kenyon has four 1-9 seasons and two winless ones in that span. Hiram has six winless seasons and four 1-9 seasons in that span. Both Hiram and Kenyon have at least won conference games in that span, and to teams other than each other, Oberlin and OWU being victims.

I'm not sure which is worse, honestly. It's all bad.

[smedindy]

Certainly, Kenyon deserves applause for being 3-3.  Let's take a look.  Two of their wins--Earlham and Hiram--are v. teams that have 0 wins between them.  Somebody had to win those games!  Kudos to Kenyon for doing so.  Their third win is Oberlin, and as someone pointed out, Obe that day was minus Mandel.  They have one "good" loss v. Washington U.  (good in the sense that Wash U. has a good football program).  But Wash U. is 1-5 this year.  The other losses are Bluffton (4-3) and OWU (6-0).  Where I think they have been most respectable is that you don't see any blowouts against them.  But their victims are a combined 2-16. 
     Looking at some numbers for Kenyon.  Their starting line up v. Wash U. featured 8 seniors, including the QB, RB, one WR, 3 Olinemen, a corner, and a safety.  They showed seniors at the positions where experience means something, at the "skills".  Those guys have been around for several years.  By the way, the Kenyon roster shows nine seniors; eight of them started v. Wash. U.  The roster also shows 15 freshmen; very thin.  The new staff has to improve recruiting numbers in an atmosphere where not much flexibility has been shown (except swimming?).   The defense is young, and the offense is mature.  And next year they have to replace those six seniors on offense.  Oh, and Kenyon finishes with DePauw, Allegheny, Wooster, Denison.  Any wins on the horizon?   Not that I would predict despite the records of three of those teams.   
     To me, it looks like the new head coach has led them to wins v. teams they had a legitimate chance to beat--good job.  So, 3-7, or maybe one more win (that would show us a little more), very nice, but consider the schedule.  To be even considered for COY, whoa.

Consider that they were on a 0-23 in an arguably even worse administration situation than DePauw, it's worth a mention. That's ALL I was saying.

The question is, of course, to recruit well and get bodies that can play. I realize that's the big question. But naysayers, this is a group of players that were just eviscerated weekly for 2+ years and got no respect from ANYONE . That's what prompted my appeal. Sometimes we sit in our towers and don't realize that if Kenyon rolls off a few 4 or 5 win seasons that it'll be a huge accomplishment and to win three games with this bunch is pretty neat no matter WHO they were playing. Sometimes the best coaching jobs are hidden from view because of the wreckage they had to pick through.

It'll be interesting to see how they compete against the Dannies. BTW, does DePauw have a binder full of coaches at the ready?

[Dr. Acula]

To smedindy's point, Mike Hallett won COY in the OAC in 07 with a 4-6 record at Berg when 3 of those wins were Oberlin, Wilmington and an 0-10 Musky squad.  But coming off 3 straight 0-10 seasons the other coaches decided that was the best coaching job that season.  Al Logan at Musky also won a couple yrs ago at 4-6.  Maybe it's just a difference in interpretation.

The one disclaimer on this, however, is that Kehres never wins COY.  Never awarding the coach of the conf champs opens it up for "good progress at bad program" guys to be rewarded more readily.  Just thought I'd point that out as I think it is a key difference between the OAC and NCAC (or probably most places).

[BashBacker#16]

Wabash press release http://sports.wabash.edu/documents/2012/10/17/ReleaseOct172012.pdf?id=100