FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[ADL70]

To smedindy's point, Mike Hallett won COY in the OAC in 07 with a 4-6 record at Berg when 3 of those wins were Oberlin, Wilmington and an 0-10 Musky squad.  But coming off 3 straight 0-10 seasons the other coaches decided that was the best coaching job that season.  Al Logan at Musky also won a couple yrs ago at 4-6.  Maybe it's just a difference in interpretation.

The one disclaimer on this, however, is that Kehres never wins COY.  Never awarding the coach of the conf champs opens it up for "good progress at bad program" guys to be rewarded more readily.  Just thought I'd point that out as I think it is a key difference between the OAC and NCAC (or probably most places).

Hallett also won North Regin COY in 2007, an award which should have gone to Greg Debeljak of CWRU who took a team with one winning record in the previous eight seasons (and probably more) to 11-1 with a playoff win.   

[sigma one]

Smed, I was not aiming any of what I wrote about Kenyon's year at you.  I understand that you are only saying consideration.  I mentioned that v. Earlham and Hiram that someone had to win.  To Kenyon's credit, it was them.  I would be far more likey to leam toward OWU coaching, regardless of what happens over the next four games.  Or Allegheny's.  I still can't figure them out, and we will soon know if they can sustain what they have going within the NCAC.  The win over Wabash; well Appalachian St beat Michigan, and how many others can we name.  Wabash was not ready to play that day, and 'gheny was--credit to their players and coaches. 
     One thing I left out of my earlier post.  Kenyon's full roster lists 52 players.  I did mention the nine seniors and 15 freshmen.   Given normal attrition, injuries and lack of interest or lack of talent, those 15 shrink quickly, probably to fewer than 10, and maybe by next year.  And maybe those left can really play.  Still, for the near-term future Kenyon has its work cut out to keep on the rise, or even to stay even.  I hope thay can--both recruit and maintain some semblence of success.  That's good for them and the NCAC.

[nike]

Regarding the Sutton years in Wooster, there were a number of other very good players on the field for the Scots. Remember Drushal, opening holes for Sutton?  Since those days the biggest difference has been recruiting. That is it.  Wooster does not fire coaches for not competing for championships every year.   Not that they should, but recruiting is the key. We are not getting the players that we were back then.  Recruiting takes work!
Wabash and Witt always seem to have several studs on both sides of the ball and quality players on the sidelines--like a Walsh. That is the thing that seperates the programs that compete every year. This is what is talked about at lunch or in the offices during the week in Wooster by follks who follow Wooster sports. Our basketball team has been top flight for 20+ years.  Coach Moore always has the players.  Always.
This year should really help Watts on the recruiting trail this winter.  Things are looking up in Delaware.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

Regarding the Sutton years in Wooster, there were a number of other very good players on the field for the Scots. Remember Drushal, opening holes for Sutton?  Since those days the biggest difference has been recruiting. That is it.  Wooster does not fire coaches for not competing for championships every year.   Not that they should, but recruiting is the key. We are not getting the players that we were back then.  Recruiting takes work!
Wabash and Witt always seem to have several studs on both sides of the ball and quality players on the sidelines--like a Walsh. That is the thing that seperates the programs that compete every year. This is what is talked about at lunch or in the offices during the week in Wooster by follks who follow Wooster sports. Our basketball team has been top flight for 20+ years.  Coach Moore always has the players.  Always.
This year should really help Watts on the recruiting trail this winter.  Things are looking up in Delaware.

Don't forget your Baseball team. Pettorini's team always compete and regularly get to the regional's. It is usually between OWU and Wooster. with Wooster usually having the upper hand.

[The_Bishop]

the_Bishop - sorry for being hyper-sensitive but Hokie hit the nail on the head commenting on the Zima link with DePauw... 

Not a problem, sir.  Apology accepted.  Hoping for a great battle for the top spot in our conference in a week and half but CMU is going to be a key measuring stick for OWU this week.  Plus, I know that you Wabash guys are more of an appletini crowd than Zima drinkers. 

[smedindy]

Kenyon's numbers are rivaling Oberlin's numbers. Both of those teams really need to get some bodies in there that fit their academic footprint and can play a little football. Certainly there are some brainy Ohio kids that play football that they can convince to go there.

[Wabash Hokie]

the_Bishop - sorry for being hyper-sensitive but Hokie hit the nail on the head commenting on the Zima link with DePauw... 

Not a problem, sir.  Apology accepted.  Hoping for a great battle for the top spot in our conference in a week and half but CMU is going to be a key measuring stick for OWU this week.  Plus, I know that you Wabash guys are more of an appletini crowd than Zima drinkers. 

Bishop:  When I read your post, my favorite line from the movie "Uncommon Valor" came to mind:

                      Boy, you just bought the whole can of whup-ass!

Appletini my ass - nothing but the finest swill for us - Rhinelander beer comes to mind.  Back in the day we put it in our soda machine in the fraternity house - cold beer for 25 cents a can and we still made money.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

Kenyon's numbers are rivaling Oberlin's numbers. Both of those teams really need to get some bodies in there that fit their academic footprint and can play a little football. Certainly there are some brainy Ohio kids that play football that they can convince to go there.

I am  not sure that Oberlin recruits Ohio much. Looking at their roster for football they only have 15 players from Ohio. I have talked to several Oberlin recruits for baseball and all of them are from other pars of the country. Many schools want the mix of there sorts teams to match the general population. I live in central Ohio and I know that Denison for instance does not recruit much from this area for any of there sports. They recruit heavily in California and New York becuse that is were most of the student population is. This of course can make it harder to recruit. Not sure that Oberlin is the same way but looking at there rosters there are not many Ohio kids.

[The_Bishop]

Bishop:  When I read your post, my favorite line from the movie "Uncommon Valor" came to mind:

                      Boy, you just bought the whole can of whup-ass!

Appletini my ass - nothing but the finest swill for us - Rhinelander beer comes to mind.  Back in the day we put it in our soda machine in the fraternity house - cold beer for 25 cents a can and we still made money.

+K for you, sir - for the post and to you and your fraternity brothers for having what I consider a cutting-edge innovation for your time!

[Desertraider]

Bishop:  When I read your post, my favorite line from the movie "Uncommon Valor" came to mind:

                      Boy, you just bought the whole can of whup-ass!

Appletini my ass - nothing but the finest swill for us - Rhinelander beer comes to mind.  Back in the day we put it in our soda machine in the fraternity house - cold beer for 25 cents a can and we still made money.

+K for you, sir - for the post and to you and your fraternity brothers for having what I consider a cutting-edge innovation for your time!

+K from me as well!! Rhinelander Bock was the bomb! $10 for a case and you got $2 back when you returned the old bottles. I used to get it in Columbus (Ohio) right off of OSUs campus when I went down for weekend drills from Hiram. Haven't seen it since 1999 - I had a salesguy send me a case in Memphis.

SMEDINDY:
As far as the 'who is worse' between Hiram, Earlham, Oberlin, etc.. Look the Terriers are the most pathetic program around. I did my undergrad there, I taught there and as an alum I get lots of "thanks for going here now send us money for......" from them. What pisses me off is the money they BURNED on athletic facility upgrades when the money could have been used elsewhere on campus. I do not have a problem with $$ being spent on athletic programs (I teach at Mount and the facilities are amazing) but if you are going to do it then bring in full time coaches, recruit, build a program and win some games - or at least be competitive. Since 1999 Hiram has a mind-numbing 13 wins and 123 losses - yet they get $10million in upgrades. That is a waste! Since the upgrades they have only won 5 games (from 2008). By comparison Oberlin has won 37 games since 1999, Earlham 39 games, Kenyon 29 games and North Park has won 24 games. Compared to Hiram these teams are WORLDBEATERS!

[The_Bishop]

desertraider,

I know there is certainly more to attracting and retaining top student-athletes at the DIII level than a "if you build it, they will come" mentality, but aren't state-of-the-art sports facilities a key piece to laying the initial foundation for any sports program?  Also, for the upgrades in which Hiram invested in recent years, do you know if any of the projects had funds earmarked by donors/alums that were designated specifically for those projects?  A big part of the renovations to Selby Field a few years ago was spearheaded by an anonymous donor who put up a large sum of money that OWU then asked individual donors to match to kick off the "Remembering Branch Rickey Campaign."  I can understand your frustration with the current state of the program at Hiram; there's surely more big changes that likely need to happen but I would think upgrading the sports facilities is a logical starting point.

[smedindy]

Was it just the football facilities or the entire sports complex that Hiram spent on? Was it a wellness facility, which many colleges are funding for the overall health and well-being of their community?

There's a lot more to a sports program than football. If they spent it on a sports complex that's definitely money well spent. Their volleyball team is one of the best in the area and went to the NCAA's last year. Men's soccer seems to be an excellent sport for them as well. Their basketball programs have gone from awful to "once in a while we'll beat a good team and hold our own against everyone else'.

You can't just look at an expenditure like that for one and only one sport. It has to be for their entire athletics program AND a wellness component. That's definitely money well spent if it attracts students.

What I don't get is why they no longer offer track & field.

[wally_wabash]

What pisses me off is the money they BURNED on athletic facility upgrades when the money could have been used elsewhere on campus. I do not have a problem with $$ being spent on athletic programs (I teach at Mount and the facilities are amazing) but if you are going to do it then bring in full time coaches, recruit, build a program and win some games - or at least be competitive.

Jackpot.  Doesn't make sense to build nice things and then not spend to have full time curators of those programs.  Why swallow the cow and then choke on the tail?

[wabco]

During my time at Wabash, at Tommys you could buy a case of long necks for $6 ... if memory serves ... out of Tommys back door with no TSI pat down.  Our house converted a Coke machine to offer Budweiser ("The King of Beers") for $.50 a bottle.  You got $.02 per empty bottle and $.50 for the case delivered back to Tommys through the same back ... and could be refilled for an add of $5.  The per case profit (diminished somewhat by breakage) permitted the investment to MERV the Budweiser for use at parties and other events in addition to making sure the Coke machine was always full.  The enterprise was man-ed, of course, by designated Rhynies (freshmen to you noit familiar with the nomenclature).  A well oiled machine ...   

Now back to discussions of that other well oiled machine:  the Wabash Little Giant football team.

[smedindy]

What pisses me off is the money they BURNED on athletic facility upgrades when the money could have been used elsewhere on campus. I do not have a problem with $$ being spent on athletic programs (I teach at Mount and the facilities are amazing) but if you are going to do it then bring in full time coaches, recruit, build a program and win some games - or at least be competitive.

Jackpot.  Doesn't make sense to build nice things and then not spend to have full time curators of those programs.  Why swallow the cow and then choke on the tail?

Coaches aside, they seem to have success in other sports that may be related tangentially related to the athletic complex upgrade (soccer and volleyball) and their basketball team is no longer a joke nor an automatic win. Again, wellness may have been a major factor since that facility encompasses a fitness center, aerobics, racquetball  and an indoor track.

Which I'm still flummoxed as to why they don't offer track.