FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[wally_wabash]

I really can't see any carnage that happens that would prevent Wabash from a "C" if it comes to that - provided they take care of Oberlin and those other guys down south a ways.

And "A" vs. "C" won't matter in seeding, either, since they are pool agnostic when it comes to that. Go 9-1 and most of the worries should be over.

Yes, this. 

If Wabash gets to 9-1, Wabash will be champion of the NCAC (probably along with one or two or three others, but champion nonetheless) and will be in the tournament.  Goals accomplished. 

[firstdown]

Pat

We all appreciate what you do and recognize that you have to make hard decisions about the Team of the Week.  The TE from Hobart clearly had a great game and is deserving of recognition.

The Wabash faithful are really proud of Houston Hodges and the game he played on Saturday.  Houston had a very busy day playing not only on offense - catching 2 TD's, including the one for 82 yards that broke open the game for Wabash, but defense with 5 tackles and an interception, but also fielding punts.  With OWU's no huddle offense and passes flying everywhere, I have no doubt that Houston slept well on Saturday evening.  He deserves a tip of my Dad's old leather helmet!  In this age of specialization, it really is a throw back to see guys going both ways.

Nate Scola, LB, was the North Coast Defensive Player of the Week.  Nate also deserves a tip of the leather helmet as well as he was playing blocking back/full back on offense as well.  Nate, Houston, and the entire Wabash defense played a great game that kept OWU out of the end zone despite Espinoza throwing the ball 72 times.  The entire Wabash team deserves cudos for playing a great game and getting a hard fought win!

...well said FirstDown well said!  Speaking of handles, isn't it ironic you raised 2 D-linemen and your handle is "FirstDown?"  HAHA.  You should have picked something like "Turnover" or "Kill-kill-kill" or "DEE-fence" or "Scoop-and-Score" or "Hit'em-so-hard-snot flies"...you get the point.   

All Wabash can do is keep playing well and control what they control.  I would love nothing more than for them to finish with 2 strong games, games where they can hopefully rest some guys and get some of the others some PT, and continue building on the momentum we have right now.  Looking forward to this weekend to see how the rest of the league shakes out.

BB16 - Except when my Dad played in the late 1920's (at what is now Manatee High School which is No. 1 in the USA high school poll, and then for the Florida Gators) and went both ways, a 160 pound lineman was considered huge.    Dad was a quarterback and a defensive back, not d-lineman like his grandsons. At 125 pounds, you could put two of him in 54's jersey and still had some room.   It wasn't like today or when you played.  I don't know how the guys today can take the pounding that they do except for the hard work in the weight room.

Actually, the handle "FirstDown" comes from the cheer "Another Wabash College first down!" We all enjoying hearing that!

[ohiofan1954]

 A couple of things. I hope you don't mind. I am not in any way affiliated with any of the schools. I am just a college football fan who goes to football games every week all across ohio, on occasion michigan or west virginia also. I am a huge fan of d3 ball and follow denison and otterbein in particular but also wooster and capital as well. I said all that to say this. Naturally being from Ohio I would love to see a  Ohio team make it too the top of the NCAC. However if there is only one team that will make it I like everyone else would like to see the best in. I was at the Wabash game Saturday as well as the Wittenberg game Saturday evening. Wabash is a very good squad and after the fine game they gave the machine last  year it would be interesting too see another game with Mt. Union. From what I saw of Wittenberg against Denison they certainly won't do it. So as much as I would love to see OWU or even more Kenyon win out and make the playoffs I have to admit that Wabash is certainly the best the in the conference this year no matter the records. By the way I have posted a few pics I took at the wabash-owu game including the winning touchdown catch on this sites facebook page as well as the wabash athletics and football facebook pages. Good luck too all teams still in the hunt. I myself will be at the Kenyon-Wooster game this weekend and very much looking forward to it.

[nike]

At the point in the season where we Scots start talking about being spoilers and finishing strong and preparing for next year.
The Kenyon game should be fun.  Nice to know everyone on here will be rooting for us.  Have to respect what their coach has done in his first year.  Do not really track them because no one on here is a supporter, that I know of. 
The different ways the season can end are dizzying.  OWU has a character building game--don't hold your head down and not play as hard because you lost a game is what some teams might do.  They still have a lot to play for and Allegheny is a tough out.
Has been a disappointing year for us, but we are young, our qb is coming back and we got the bag pipes and great hot dogs.

[djabs7]

Trying to shed some more light on the tiebreaker. Here's the answer I got from the NCAC.
Me: Bret, I read the Crawfordsville paper's explanation of the tiebreaker, but wanted to double check on how it works. If the three tied teams are Witt, Wabash and Ohio Wesleyan, for example, would Wabash get the AQ because of its 2-0 record against those teams or would it go to the next tiebreaker because Witt and OWU didn't play?
Bret Billhardt: In that scenario we wouldn't use the head-to-head tiebreaker because it wouldn't be fair to apply that specific tiebreaker seeing that every team didn't play each other.

[wally_wabash]

Trying to shed some more light on the tiebreaker. Here's the answer I got from the NCAC.
Me: Bret, I read the Crawfordsville paper's explanation of the tiebreaker, but wanted to double check on how it works. If the three tied teams are Witt, Wabash and Ohio Wesleyan, for example, would Wabash get the AQ because of its 2-0 record against those teams or would it go to the next tiebreaker because Witt and OWU didn't play?
Bret Billhardt: In that scenario we wouldn't use the head-to-head tiebreaker because it wouldn't be fair to apply that specific tiebreaker seeing that every team didn't play each other.

Yeah, that's positively asinine.  We are WAY too smart a collection of people in the NCAC for that explanation to be ok. 

Thanks for the follow up, DJabs. 

[smedindy]

Well, unless something inexplicable happens Wittenberg will probably be the "A" and Wabash a "C" and that's OK because that's at least two NCAC teams in the post-season.

And if OWU holds serve it could be interesting to see what the committee does.

[wabndy]

I'm glad there are 32 playoff teams.  I'm really glad there are 7 Pool C bids to pass around.  I'm really really glad we have full round robin next year.  I can even live with the conference's all-sports trophy being awarded for combined mens and womens sports in a conference that includes an all-male college.  I just sometimes wonder that, if given a choice, the league office would prefer to award the AQ for the team that gives the most consistent performance throughout the season and send Hiram to the playoffs.

[Ryan Tipps]

Trying to shed some more light on the tiebreaker. Here's the answer I got from the NCAC.
Me: Bret, I read the Crawfordsville paper's explanation of the tiebreaker, but wanted to double check on how it works. If the three tied teams are Witt, Wabash and Ohio Wesleyan, for example, would Wabash get the AQ because of its 2-0 record against those teams or would it go to the next tiebreaker because Witt and OWU didn't play?
Bret Billhardt: In that scenario we wouldn't use the head-to-head tiebreaker because it wouldn't be fair to apply that specific tiebreaker seeing that every team didn't play each other.

I'm not buying that reasoning. And I'm not surprised that Billhardt isn't terribly forth-coming.

I know everyone is saying that Witt would be the Pool A, and maybe that's just the beast of interpreting the selection criteria. Looking at it objectively, I don't see how the No. 1 criterium, h2h, doesn't apply here. Looking at it as listed in the Journal Review article, I see it as Wabash likely getting the AQ.

Kenyon is 0-1 against the tied teams, as is Witt. They're out based on h2h.
OWU is 1-1. Wabash is 2-0 against the teams in this group, meaning Wabash wins the AQ.

If we had to go deeper because Wabash didn't directly beat Kenyon, it may depend on how the OWU/Gheny game turns out, since they would be the next two teams in the "descending order." And Kenyon and Bash would each be 1-1 against them. If OWU wins this weekend, that means Wabash would win the AQ over Kenyon because OWU would be higher up the "descending order than Gheny, giving Wabash the edge with its win over OWU. If Gheny wins, criteria Nos. 4 or 5 might be needed, which would also give Wabash the edge.

This is just the way I'm interpreting the criteria. I very possibly could be reading it wrong. But we're all apparently looking at it with our own little nuances.

[sigma one]

Bret is probably speaking for the NCAC, and maybe he is the designated spokesperson on this issue.  But he is not the head dog.  I'd like to hear from the Commissioner/Executive Director on this issue.  Or I'd like to hear Bret say he speaks on behalf of the NCAC. Maybe because he is the one answereing inquries, he does, nonetheless. . . The NCAC is a presidents'-run conference.  Do the presidents pass on interpretations to the conference office or are they involved at any level.  Again, not that this would make a difference, although . . .There's just too much mystery and too much left unsaid for me. I am not, by the way, intuiting any conspiracy.
     In the end what I just wrote may mean nothing.  I am not suggesting that Bret does not speak for the conference, just that I wish the NCAC would clarify, and in writing, to the schools (and to all who have interest) what is going on.  Sooner rather than later.  The more I ponder this, the more I can't come to terms with the idea that HtoH does not apply unless all the tied team play all the other tied teams.  In this scenario, when some teams don't play others, isn't it reasonable to rely on HtoH anyway, thus not having to go on down the list.  A version of Occam's razor.
     Wabash beats Wittenberg and Ohio Wesleyan,  two of the other teams with one loss.  Kenyon loses to Ohio Wesleyan (whom Wabash defeated) and does not play either Witt or OWU.  They have lost Hto H with one of the teams in the tie.  OWU and Witt have lost to the other team in the tie.  YOu can't go around supposing what would have happened otherwise.  In head to head v. those in the tie, Wabash should emerge.  Eliminating Kenyon, if that occurs, Wabash has still beaten the other two.
    Nowhere in  tie-breaker #1, does is say that HtoH is about ALL the teams that are tied playing all the other teams. And in a conference that is not round robin, the sensible thing is to sort out on the basis of who actually played whom.  After all, it's the conference who is making it possible for this mess to bubble up.  It just seems like the way the league office appears to be interpreting the situation is far more manipulated/ing than if they went by the games that were actually played--the most straighforward solution. 
    As for the three-team scenario, Wabash beat both the others.  Why is there even a question here.  Witt and OWU both have a loss; that's all that counts. That they do not play can't erase that.
    I've just seen what Ryan posted.  We both are on the same page.  He's gone farther down the criteria.
 

[wabco]

Just was told that BW was put on NCAA probation.  Could this be true?  Hope not.

[Dr. Acula]

BW self reports

[bashbrother]

As for the three-team scenario, Wabash beat both the others.  Why is there even a question here.  Witt and OWU both have a loss; that's all that counts. That they do not play can't erase that.

In my personal view and analysis of the NCAC over the past 10 years,  subjective interpretation for the sake of inclusion has always been their modus operandi.  I can definitely see them wanting to send Kenyon to the Division III playoffs as an "A"..only to get beat 60-0.  Sure give them a trophy for winning.... but sending them to the playoffs without playing Wabash or Witt... would be a joke.

Wooster or Denison... must win. Just another reason to pile on the Dannies this year.

[smedindy]

BW withdrawing from post-season won't affect football much directly, since they most likely wouldn't beat Mt. Union and thus would enter the dreaded 2-loss zone. What they can do, still, is be the spoiler for Heidelberg, and that may help the NCAC get three teams into the playoffs if other things happen.

[sigma one]

Yes, Wabash will almost certainly get into the playoffs as a C, if it comes to that.  So what does it matter if they are an A or a C because they still have a conference (co) championship and the C doesn't keep them from a higher seed.  Ask the players and the coaches.  Being an A matters to them.