FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[formerd3db]

Looking at this bracket, I am very thankful that Denison helped Witt out yesterday. I'm not sure we make it as an "at large" pick. OWU deserved a spot.

Also, Adrian receiving a home game and Witt traveling is a surprise.

I have to agree with you.  As much as I have and want to support our MIAA representative, I do not see how Adrian received the home game either.  Despite how the NCAA figured their SOS, in reality it was not that strong of schedule.  As everyone is always making the point that the MIAA is a weak conference, you can't then have it both ways; even Adrian's non-conferance schedule was not very strong with the exception of Huntingdon, whom they barely beat yesterday.  Perhaps that was the reason that tipped the decision, although I doubt it.

All of which, again, is just another example of how many of us disagree with how the NCAA committee figures these out. It wouldn't be "the norm" if the NCAA didn't make some decision like this each year (which they do), but then again, that's just the way it is and no one can do anything about it (except for a team to just win their conference in regards to the tangential issue of those teams that don't even get selected and/or edged out in the at-large pool)

[The_Bishop]

Well that's a bummer for OWU for sure, but I really haven't looked closely at the at-large teams that were selected and who they played, etc.  It's too bad the OWU seniors won't get to extend a phenomenal season by another week and get some playoff experience for the entire squad, but there is nothing at all for this group of young men to hang their heads about.  The 2012 Bishops are conference co-champs.  They fought hard all season long and were a pleasure to watch.

In addition to a new trophy that will be landing in Delaware soon that this team earned, as conference champs the team photo will be prominently displayed in Edwards Gym with all of the other great athletic teams that have won championships throughout the school's history.  Years from now as the next generations of Bishop football players walk down that hallway they will stop and look at the team from 2012, read the names, and aspire to accomplish what this year's Bishops did.

Thank you and congratulations to the 2012 OWU Battling Bishops.

[Pat Coleman]

Looking at this bracket, I am very thankful that Denison helped Witt out yesterday. I'm not sure we make it as an "at large" pick. OWU deserved a spot.

Also, Adrian receiving a home game and Witt traveling is a surprise.

I have to agree with you.  As much as I have and want to support our MIAA representative, I do not see how Adrian received the home game either.  Despite how the NCAA figured their SOS, in reality it was not that strong of schedule.  As everyone is always making the point that the MIAA is a weak conference, you can't then have it both ways; even Adrian's non-conferance schedule was not very strong with the exception of Huntingdon, whom they barely beat yesterday.  Perhaps that was the reason that tipped the decision, although I doubt it.

All of which, again, is just another example of how many of us disagree with how the NCAA committee figures these out. It wouldn't be "the norm" if the NCAA didn't make some decision like this each year (which they do), but then again, that's just the way it is and no one can do anything about it (except for a team to just win their conference)

Adrian went out and beat a regionally ranked team on the road yesterday. I was not surprised they got a home game -- they moved up in our mock regional rankings, the one we use to project the field.

[formerd3db]

Pat, of course, beating a regionally ranked team at the end of the season, last game, no less, seemed to be it.  However, one game doesn't make the season and again, IMO, the entire schedule has to be taken into account as I mentioned.  But...the criteria is as you mention and that's just the way it is.

[Pat Coleman]

Pat, of course, beating a regionally ranked team at the end of the season, last game, no less, seemed to be it.  However, one game doesn't make the season and again, IMO, the entire schedule has to be taken into account as I mentioned.  But...the criteria is as you mention and that's just the way it is.

My point was that beating the regionally ranked team was the new piece of data since the last regional ranking. That's more than enough to flip Adrian over OWU, Wittenberg and Heidelberg, none of whom had that. When the week started, none of those teams had beaten an RRO -- after Saturday, one had.

[sigma one]

Good luck to Wittenberg in a battle for central Ohio.  For some reason, the Tigers have not been particularly themselves on the road for the past two years.  A win on Saturday would correct that perception.   Condolences to OWU.  Wally, your analysis, please.
     Recently, Smed mentioned that "all" Oberlin and Kenyon have to do is increase roster size.  I am not one to pick at words, and certainly with small rosters this year they held their own and more, but that "all" speaks volumes.  They have fought on with small rosters for years.  Maybe success this year will help with recruiting.  But they have so many players from out of Ohio, maybe that success doesn't mean as much.  Looking at this year's rosters, both schools once again have very small freshmen classes.  Oberlin's senior class, playing together for several years, proved itself.  Most of Kenyon's skill players are seniors.  Oberlin has always been well coached; Kenyon's new coach evidently made a substantial difference.  Kenyon has to play everyone next year; everyone does.  I hope the schools' administrations cooperate in allowing them to bring up their numbers.  Not sure this is a priority at either place for football.
     Wooster is the real question mark. Material on this board about the situation there has been enlightening.  Every year they profess to show promise of competing at the top of the NCAC.  For  years, that has not happened.  With their new facilities maybe their prospects will improve.
     Allegheny gives Wabash fits almost every year.  Recent results for them are disappointing overall.  They used to be able to recruit among the best talent in their area, and western Pa turns out players.  Their continuing middle-of-the-pack records are puzzling.
     Denison is another middling team.  They never seem to have enough talent to compete at the top.  Hard to fathom why football is usually one of the weaker sports there.  Maybe someone has insight.
     This year with a new coach and wide open attack Ohio Wesleyan joined the top of the league.  Repeating will be important, and they have talent returning at most positions.  They are the team to watch as others start paying more attention, and as the NCAC goes round robin.
     DePauw needs players.  Watching them on Saturday was shocking; no need to be an expert to see that their Jimmies and Joes need upgrading.  The merrygoround there has surely damaged them.  With a new coach, we'll see. 
     Hiram, well, nothing so far seems to help them come up in the world.  If they could just become competitive with the bottom half of the conference, their improvement would lift everyone.
     That leaves the perennial top dogs.  After a downturn a few years ago, Wittenberg has been its old dominant self for long enough now to make it all but certain they won't soon fade.  Good coaching, solid year in and year out recruiting, and tradition--receipe for success--and for an annual Witt/Wabash slug fest.  Wabash was confounding this year, but did take out the two teams that finished 9-1.  No reason to believe that they won't bounce back next year. 
     One ?mark for many teams will be replacing QBs.  OWU's advantage is having a three-year starter returning.  And Wittenberg will also have an experienced QB.  Barnes/Frongillo will once again cause  speculation.  DePauw needs to find someone, and the freshman Murray sure looks good physically.  Wabash, Oberlin, Kenyon, Denison all lose multiple-year starters.  Allegheny was unsettled this year. Hiram, again, ?
     It occurs to me that with everyone playing everyone else next year, the records of some teams will suffer, and others perhaps improve.  How's that for being perceptive!   
     Too long at this so soon at season's (almost) end. 
     Most Importantly, Wittenberg-----make the NCAC proud. 

       

[gofor7pitt]

Pat, of course, beating a regionally ranked team at the end of the season, last game, no less, seemed to be it.  However, one game doesn't make the season and again, IMO, the entire schedule has to be taken into account as I mentioned.  But...the criteria is as you mention and that's just the way it is.

My point was that beating the regionally ranked team was the new piece of data since the last regional ranking. That's more than enough to flip Adrian over OWU, Wittenberg and Heidelberg, none of whom had that. When the week started, none of those teams had beaten an RRO -- after Saturday, one had.

Franklin should be the favored team heading to Adrian this Saturday.

[The_Bishop]

Highlights from OWU/Wooster game (love the choice of Springstein's 'The Rising' for the song, and check out the shot Barnes takes at 2:18):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBalW5lgpHI&feature=youtu.be

[Bishopleftiesdad]

 

Congratulations Bishops.

Seniors hold your heads up. What you did this year was outstanding.

[wally_wabash]

Good luck to Wittenberg in a battle for central Ohio.  For some reason, the Tigers have not been particularly themselves on the road for the past two years.  A win on Saturday would correct that perception.   Condolences to OWU.  Wally, your analysis, please.   

I think it's a tough break for OWU.  I went through the selection process in two different ways and had OWU in both times.  For me, OWU and Heidelberg are basically the same team as far as selection résumés go.  If one got in, I figured the other would follow immediately.  Not the case.  Didn't count on Bridegwater State getting into the conversation, which if they were being compared there toward the end with OWU, would look better per the criteria than OWU.  So that's why (at least IMO) the Bishops are left out.  Shaky SOS and zero quality wins equals thin ice in the Pool C. 

Heidelberg/Witt should be fun.  My sense is that Heidelberg is the better side.  Witt will have some playoff experience to draw from, but there are a lot of faces gone from the 2010 squad.  It's probably one of the more intriguing games on Saturday. 

[nike]

How long did it take OWU to change coaches? Do you think it'll take that long at Wooster?

Wow!  Was really hoping the Bishops would get in.
Do not think Schmitz will be asked go leave. Too entrenched. The numbers given on Sutton's playing days were remarkable. It would take a groundswell from important alumni and maybe former players.  Don't think administration would move on anything that happens on the field. He would have to quit or retire or move on.

[formerd3db]

Pat, of course, beating a regionally ranked team at the end of the season, last game, no less, seemed to be it.  However, one game doesn't make the season and again, IMO, the entire schedule has to be taken into account as I mentioned.  But...the criteria is as you mention and that's just the way it is.

My point was that beating the regionally ranked team was the new piece of data since the last regional ranking. That's more than enough to flip Adrian over OWU, Wittenberg and Heidelberg, none of whom had that. When the week started, none of those teams had beaten an RRO -- after Saturday, one had.

I totally understand your point (and the NCAA's) in that regard, although I don't necessarily agree with it.  My point is that if SOS is that important in the overall aspect, one could make a case for that being the main or overall determining factor.  Despite the other teams not beating a RRO as you mention, and while Adrian did, they only did so by one point, so again, IMO, I don't that is tantamount to putting it over the edge".  Now, if Adrian (or any team for that matter) had beaten a couple or more RRO, then I could see it.  And, taking into account Franklin's SOS, their conference is not top tier either (I forgot which one you ranked higher, but I believe it was the MIAA over the HCAC), however, they played UWW (although obviously, can't count the other game Butler in the SOS - another aspect of the SOS I disagree with, although that is an entirely different discussion/argument that we've all discussed before).  Anyway, just voicing my thought on this, but it doesn't matter as it has been decided.

[smedindy]

I think going down to Alabama and beating a damn good Huntingdon team has more than justified Adrian's spot as a host.

[Pat Coleman]

Pat, of course, beating a regionally ranked team at the end of the season, last game, no less, seemed to be it.  However, one game doesn't make the season and again, IMO, the entire schedule has to be taken into account as I mentioned.  But...the criteria is as you mention and that's just the way it is.

My point was that beating the regionally ranked team was the new piece of data since the last regional ranking. That's more than enough to flip Adrian over OWU, Wittenberg and Heidelberg, none of whom had that. When the week started, none of those teams had beaten an RRO -- after Saturday, one had.

I totally understand your point (and the NCAA's) in that regard, although I don't necessarily agree with it.  My point is that if SOS is that important in the overall aspect, one could make a case for that being the main or overall determining factor.  Despite the other teams not beating a RRO as you mention, and while Adrian did, they only did so by one point, so again, IMO, I don't that is tantamount to putting it over the edge".  Now, if Adrian (or any team for that matter) had beaten a couple or more RRO, then I could see it.  And, taking into account Franklin's SOS, their conference is not top tier either (I forgot which one you ranked higher, but I believe it was the MIAA over the HCAC), however, they played UWW (although obviously, can't count the other game Butler in the SOS - another aspect of the SOS I disagree with, although that is an entirely different discussion/argument that we've all discussed before).  Anyway, just voicing my thought on this, but it doesn't matter as it has been decided.

SOS is one of five (IIRC) primary criteria. A win against an RRO is relatively rare and because of that scarcity, they sure do mean a lot.

Franklin played Mount Union, not UWW.

[formerd3db]

Pat, of course, beating a regionally ranked team at the end of the season, last game, no less, seemed to be it.  However, one game doesn't make the season and again, IMO, the entire schedule has to be taken into account as I mentioned.  But...the criteria is as you mention and that's just the way it is.

My point was that beating the regionally ranked team was the new piece of data since the last regional ranking. That's more than enough to flip Adrian over OWU, Wittenberg and Heidelberg, none of whom had that. When the week started, none of those teams had beaten an RRO -- after Saturday, one had.

I totally understand your point (and the NCAA's) in that regard, although I don't necessarily agree with it.  My point is that if SOS is that important in the overall aspect, one could make a case for that being the main or overall determining factor.  Despite the other teams not beating a RRO as you mention, and while Adrian did, they only did so by one point, so again, IMO, I don't that is tantamount to putting it over the edge".  Now, if Adrian (or any team for that matter) had beaten a couple or more RRO, then I could see it.  And, taking into account Franklin's SOS, their conference is not top tier either (I forgot which one you ranked higher, but I believe it was the MIAA over the HCAC), however, they played UWW (although obviously, can't count the other game Butler in the SOS - another aspect of the SOS I disagree with, although that is an entirely different discussion/argument that we've all discussed before).  Anyway, just voicing my thought on this, but it doesn't matter as it has been decided.

SOS is one of five (IIRC) primary criteria. A win against an RRO is relatively rare and because of that scarcity, they sure do mean a lot.

Franklin played Mount Union, not UWW.

Okay, so excuse me for the inadvertent mistake - correct it was Mount Union not UWW.  However, it doesn't matter - substitute any similar team in that slot.  Anyway, a win against a RRO may be rare, but a one point win is not exactly being dominant.  So IMO, that should be taken into account along with the overall SOS - I still don't agree with the process reasoning sometimes (and I think there are others here who would agree with me), but I'm not on the committee - so again it doesn't matter.  I think we've both made our opinions on this.