FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[nike]

A great coach who can recruit overcomes a lot of the disadvantages that schools may have in terms of academics.  I wish we would know what Ohio Weslyan's season would've been like if Hollway was still there. Obviously, no way of knowing. Fired and being forced out or leaving before you are ready to are all the same to me.  How many years were we talking about OWU needing to make a move before they finally did. Wooster I do not think would force Schmitz out.

[smedindy]

Wooster is pretty highly regarded academically, as is almost all of the NCAC. Most are highly ranked in US News in the National Liberal Arts college area, and are either members of the GLCA or part of the "Colleges That Change Lives" series.

In 2012, Oberlin, Kenyon and Denison were in the Top 50 of US News. Wabash and DePauw were bubbling under and have been in the Top 50 in the recent past. Wooster is #63 which isn't that far off.

From everything I've seen, Witt's kind of the outlier of the NCAC academically, if it can be called an outlier, but not by that much. Their academic footprint does fit in with the NCAC, really. Hiram's never ranked that highly but they have a different program.

[sigma one]

Good Dr:  You can go to any number of sources to compare academic reputation.  And you can explore any number of sources to get average SAT/ACT numbers, h.s. class rank, etc.  Superficially, Wabash and Wooster's student bodies look much alike in the numbers. 
     Schools decide how and who to recruit given their admissions reuirements.  I can tell you without reservation that Wabash does not bend requirements for athletes in any sport. (Not to suggest that anyone does. . .) But Wabash does offer very generous need-based and merit-based financial aid.  I don't know exactly how the other NCAC schools compare.  I've heard coaches complain for years about Wabash being out-aided by school X, etc.  But I also know that some students at Wabash received better packages than they were offered at school X.  It's a fairly tricky thing to get at. 
     Wabash coaches also know that they have little chance of getting any student, athlete or not, who wants to major in business because they, mistakenly, think that majoring there gives them a leg up at getting a job.  Wabash does not offer any kind of major in business; there is a "concentration," the equivalent of a minor.  It's surprising how many h.s. students--and parents--eliminate a school that has no business major. 
     As for the other NCAC schools, it varies substantially.  Some do not send coaches to recruit widely out of state.  Others don't even recruit intensively in state.  Oberlin and Kenyon are no doubt the most selective institutions in the NCAC, and look at the homes of the football players on their rosters.  After that, I think--my view--that depending upon numerous factors the other schools are about equal.  Please, everyone, we can argue about what that means; to me it means they are all pretty good academically, with some better at some things--remember they are all Phi Beta Kappa institutions and that designation is not given out willy-nilly.  One can argue that Wabash is stronger than . . .or Allegheny is stronger than. . . Or that such and such gives better financial aid-- with less or no "gapping" (whether a total financial aid package meets "full need"--many  schools leave a gap between the determined need and what they offer, leaving the family to come up with the difference), or includes loans as part of the package, and what %age of the total package is in loans..  Some schools offer merit-aid awards to students with lower scores and class rank than other schools can match. 
     I hear all the time that QB X, big lineman Y, and kicker Z got into institution [put name here] and didn't get accepted here.  X, Y, and Z got a package we can't match.  And so on.  I think pretty much every school could point to a disappointment like that.
     The comment about tradition and culture is telling and important.  About one-eighth of the Wabash student body plays on the football team.  Members of the team reside in every living unit.  The administration values athletic contributions.  The home stands are usually full.  About two-thirds of this year's entering class were at least talked, nominally recruited by a coach, even though some of them decided not to participate on a team.   In part, Wabash values athletics because it needs student-athletes to make its class every year.  It ain't easy being male only, and as other schools try harder all the time to recruit males to even out the gender balance in the student body, the coaches are expected to recruit hard.  Football coaches are particularly good at it.
      The Wittenbergs, Alleghenies, and a few others also have proud football traditions. Some other places don't care as much.  And many places have to be careful about even saying they want football to be some kind of flagship sport, given gender equity and campus politics.  "All sports must be equal":  hard to argue against that in any culture, and especially so on campuses where women's athletics is valued.  So in some places football, whatever we think and want, is one sport among many.  Think on DePauw's winning of the NCAC all-sports trophy last year because of consistency across sports. And other schools winning the trophy in previous years:  Denison comes to mind, again with outstanding women's sports, and without more focus on any particular sport. There is a fine line for presidents to walk when it comes to which sport(s) they can promote.  I don't know about Wooster, but I know (or once did) the Wooster president (worked with him at one time--full disclosure)  I do believe that competitive teams, men's and women's, are important to him if for no other reason Wooster's reputation.  My sense is that football is not "special" to him, and hence to Wooster; maybe I am mistaken, and I am willing to be corrected on this.
  Finally, Dr., I agree with your thinking that Woo is closer to Wit than to Kenyon.

[Dr. Acula]

Thanks for the explanation.  I realize you guys have your finger on the pulse so to speak so thank you for sharing.  I was curious and I'm guessing folks wandering over from other boards will find it informative too.

[FightinScot]

Making a change at Wooster won't result in an immediate change in their record. As much as everybody downs OWU's previous coach, the team was stacked with talented, skilled players with game experience. Wooster lacks the talent and it would take two good recruiting classes to turn things around. The word I got was that the aid package they used to get over other NCAC schools has left the building.
(OWU was still able to attain all-conference players with the same disadvantages over the past few years.)

Good point there. Financial aid is way down at Wooster - and it typically declined every year you were in school. Don't know if its common practice, but it did consistently push a good number of guys away each year.

[fantastic50]

The US News rankings have a controversial methodology, because most of what they measure is mostly about an institution's financial resources and the academic credentials of their entering freshmen, rather than measuring what students gain at an institution (or where they end up later in life).  However, because they are widely followed, here are the current (2013 edition) rankings of the NCAC schools, organized roughly into tiers.

26 Oberlin
32 Kenyon

49 Denison
54 Depauw
56 Wabash
63 Wooster

82 Allegheny

108 Ohio Wesleyan
121 Wittenberg

167 Hiram

Wooster has also been (for many decades) highly-ranked nationally on the list of colleges that produce (based percentage of alumni) the most PhD's, and well ahead of some "more prestigious" colleges by that measure.

Wittenberg, like many small colleges, is under substantial financial pressure, and may be cutting departments and/or fundamentally altering their mission, just to stay afloat...
http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/news/local/bond-rating-exposes-universitys-plight-1/nMtpz/
http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/news/local-education/wittenberg-leader-seeks-sustainable-financial-futu/nSKrD/

In these respects, Wooster is much more like Kenyon than Witt, for what it's worth, although they operate under very different financial/business models.

[nike]

Wooster is doing fine in every sense of the word.  Academically, financially, numbers and mix of students, etc.  The same issues other NCAC schools face, for the most part, Wooster faces too.  As far as football is concerned, Wooster is maybe getting close to where OWU has been for several years, before this current season.  Schmitz is a decent guy and paid his dues at Wooster as an assistant before he became the head coach. Think he sometimes plays less talented players over more talented players for reasons I do not understand. Sutton came along Schmitz's third year there. COY as recently as 2008.
2013-QB decisions and replentishing a losing football team with quality new players who can make an impact and coaching more effectively-this is what is needed to not just keep up in the NCAC any more, but catch up to Wabash, Witt, Gheny and now Kenyon and OWU. Do not see him leaving any time soon, unless he wants to, which I doubt will happen.

[sigma one]

Thanks, Nike.  Because of what this board is about, it's usually not posters' intent to look more broadly at institutional excellence.  We aren't really in the business of placing football in the context of institutions' financial situations, faculty politics, etc.  Every so often it's good that the we remind ourselves that there is a bigger picture for campuses to consider.  Not that this is any consolation for dedicated and caring fans when, say, Wooster goes 2-8.  The reports on Wittenberg should be a cause for concern for all those who support the university.  There may be no spill over to football, and to sports in general at Witt.  As at Wabash (as I earlier posted), athletics at Wittenberg provide a significant percentage of the student body.  But losing enrollment is never a good sign.  Let's hope the new president and all those who are working on the difficulties find a way.  Witt's U.S. News ranking v. other Ohio schools cannot help them when students are making enrollment decisions.  On the other hand, Witt's continuing excellence in football will definitely help them to continue to attract quality talent--as should their competitiveness in a number of other sports, men's and women's.   

[The_Bishop]

Coach Watts named AFCA Regional COY:

http://www.battlingbishops.com/news/2012/12/3/fb_12032012.aspx

Wishing everyone a safe and healthy holiday season.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

+1 for the link Bishop.

I am happy for Watts. Several people have asked me "How long do I think Watts will stay at OWU?"

I personally do not have an answer. If he continues to do this well do you think other programs will come after him?

[smedindy]

Thankfully, it's not D-1. The 'hot coach' will take a while to get noticed, usually. We get used to how coaches move around in D-1A.

When Chris Creighton started to put together his program at Wabash I wondered how long he'd last there and if some team in a higher division would nab him quickly. It wasn't as quick as I had thought. In D-3 it's about building a sustaining program not going in and doing a quick fix-it and then moving on. So I'd say you get Watts for a few more years.

[formerd3db]

Thanks, Nike.  Because of what this board is about, it's usually not posters' intent to look more broadly at institutional excellence.  We aren't really in the business of placing football in the context of institutions' financial situations, faculty politics, etc.  Every so often it's good that the we remind ourselves that there is a bigger picture for campuses to consider.  Not that this is any consolation for dedicated and caring fans when, say, Wooster goes 2-8.  The reports on Wittenberg should be a cause for concern for all those who support the university.  There may be no spill over to football, and to sports in general at Witt.  As at Wabash (as I earlier posted), athletics at Wittenberg provide a significant percentage of the student body.  But losing enrollment is never a good sign.  Let's hope the new president and all those who are working on the difficulties find a way.  Witt's U.S. News ranking v. other Ohio schools cannot help them when students are making enrollment decisions.  On the other hand, Witt's continuing excellence in football will definitely help them to continue to attract quality talent--as should their competitiveness in a number of other sports, men's and women's.   

Wooster is doing fine in every sense of the word.  Academically, financially, numbers and mix of students, etc.  The same issues other NCAC schools face, for the most part, Wooster faces too.  As far as football is concerned, Wooster is maybe getting close to where OWU has been for several years, before this current season.  Schmitz is a decent guy and paid his dues at Wooster as an assistant before he became the head coach. Think he sometimes plays less talented players over more talented players for reasons I do not understand. Sutton came along Schmitz's third year there. COY as recently as 2008.
2013-QB decisions and replentishing a losing football team with quality new players who can make an impact and coaching more effectively-this is what is needed to not just keep up in the NCAC any more, but catch up to Wabash, Witt, Gheny and now Kenyon and OWU. Do not see him leaving any time soon, unless he wants to, which I doubt will happen.

Excellent posts gentlemen.  Although you posted those comments last week, I thought I would "chime in" here.  Without question, the challenge of keeping enrollments up at our small colleges is of major concern in these current times.  We all agree that the main intent and focus is obviously the academic aspects as it should be. Yet, athletics play an important and key part in all this as you both have well pointed out.  Each small college/university at our level has to look at that in different ways in which that will benefit and accomplish those goals that best fits their institution.  What works and "is right" for one school is not necessarily what will be the appropriate option for another school.

To share an example from our MIAA to compare with the two you have discussed, Adrian College faced the same challenges about 5-6 years ago.  With declining enrollment, which fell under 1,000 for the first time in some 40 years, the administration knew it had to do something and what they chose, was not always popular in the eyes of some of its "sister" MIAA institutions.  Adrian added men's and women's lacrosse and hockey to its varisty sports list, built an on-campus ice arena with permanent seating (of course, it helped that they had donations to cover the cost of that facility), upgraded their athletic center, renovated dorms and build new football and baseball/softball facilities, etc.  Their philosophy was by bringing in some 30 student-athletes for each of those sports, plus the two club-collegiate "virtual varisty" men's ice hockey teams they sponsor in addition to their NCAA Varisty Hockey teams provided the additional interest and solidified enrollement to their target goal of 1,500 on a permanent basis, which has exceeded that now, I believe, to above 1,700 students full-time.  The tuition paid by those student-athletes was a tremendous boost to the College, yet again and admittedly, it helped that they had financing to pay for the construction costs (at least the hockey arena in full) so those aspects are not in play now.  The ice arena is also rented out to the general public which brings in additional revenue, a "win-win" situation for the College and the city/community.  The interest in the new sports teams is great, but for example, so much for hockey that all four teams fill the arena to capacity for games (which seats about 700-800+ I believe in those neat single permanent seats - it is a very nice facility).

Of course, that formula has worke for Adrian, which had to come up with a "game plan" for enrollment retainment, unlike Hope and Calvin College, both of which don't have to worry about that (at least so far, and that is not intended as a "negative" connotation towards Adrian in any regard at all).

Nonetheless, again, due to the multitude of factors in today's society and economic times, obviously each school is looking at what "model" best works for them.  On a related topic, of which I won't go into detail here since this post is already too long (and I and others have discussed this extensively in the past over on the MIAA board), the MIAA has faced the challenges of losing out on football student-athletes to the multitude of DII schools in the region who can offer the football scholarships, which is a tangible/legit consideration.  Anyway, thanks for a good discussion and points.   

[Bishopleftiesdad]

Thankfully, it's not D-1. The 'hot coach' will take a while to get noticed, usually. We get used to how coaches move around in D-1A.

When Chris Creighton started to put together his program at Wabash I wondered how long he'd last there and if some team in a higher division would nab him quickly. It wasn't as quick as I had thought. In D-3 it's about building a sustaining program not going in and doing a quick fix-it and then moving on. So I'd say you get Watts for a few more years.

Thanks for the answer Smed. That is good to hear. +1. But do you think the same holds if a higher profile D3 has a spot open up. Not saying that OWU with its student base and location could not become high profile. I think Watts called them a sleeping giant. (or was that Wally)

[smedindy]

I think it's the same. Not many high profile jobs open up year over year. Many times they go to someone 'in the family' so to speak. St. John's is one that's open now that I would consider "high profile" but I don't know if they'll go too far outside of the Johnnie family. Nearby, the JCU and Capital jobs may be intriguing, but again, they'd be interested more in program builders.

[Dr. Acula]

I think it's the same. Not many high profile jobs open up year over year. Many times they go to someone 'in the family' so to speak. St. John's is one that's open now that I would consider "high profile" but I don't know if they'll go too far outside of the Johnnie family. Nearby, the JCU and Capital jobs may be intriguing, but again, they'd be interested more in program builders.

I think OWU is safe on both of those.  JCU will likely keep it in the family, as you said, in this case with Tom Arth.  Cap would not be appealing to me over the OWU job.  That program is in bad shape and the cupboard is barren for next year.  Combine that with the apparent lack of support from the administration and that job isn't a destination job anymore.