FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[smedindy]

The implication to me (and maybe it's my jaded eyes reading into it, sorry) was that the press shouldn't have published it because it may make the College look bad as a whole and we can't have that because Program X is the best thing ever. Believe me, I've been around people like that. So I may have displaced some of my venom about the venom against the article because of it.

Perhaps the TDR is trying to get the administration to listen to the players and alumni? Perhaps.

The question is does Wooster want a top-notch football program that can compete and win in the NCAC (after building) or one that complements the basketball program and fills a solid niche in the second tier? Ideally, you want each and every program to succeed on its own merits, but there are tradeoffs.

[woosterbooster]

The implication to me (and maybe it's my jaded eyes reading into it, sorry) was that the press shouldn't have published it because it may make the College look bad as a whole and we can't have that because Program X is the best thing ever. Believe me, I've been around people like that. So I may have displaced some of my venom about the venom against the article because of it.

This never entered into my thoughts.  I mean, I think it's become a rather common practice in the last twenty or thirty years to announce, when a coach is actually ousted, that he's resigned.  Or that the program is "going to go in a different direction".  I believe that's what happened here and I have no problem with that, I see it as a nice courtesy.  Providing, of course, that said coach is departing solely due to poor performance by his team.  If there are other circumstances, I'm all for taking a hard line at finding out what they are.  I have no sympathy for recruiting infractions, gifts for players, and especially for the Penn States of the world.

Perhaps the TDR is trying to get the administration to listen to the players and alumni? Perhaps.

Perhaps.  But cynical me believes that they're only blowing their own horn.  This is a sports department that has gone well down the hill in the last few years.  For example, about a week ago, one of their writers decided that, after one local girls basketball team blew out another by the score of 89-5, that it would be cool to call the losing team Turnover Central Catholic rather than Tuscarawa Central Catholic.

[ScotsFan]

The implication to me (and maybe it's my jaded eyes reading into it, sorry) was that the press shouldn't have published it because it may make the College look bad as a whole and we can't have that because Program X is the best thing ever. Believe me, I've been around people like that. So I may have displaced some of my venom about the venom against the article because of it.

Like WB, this never even crossed my mind.  I'm just of the opinion that Schmitz's biggest fault was that he was in over his head in being a head coach at the college ranks.  He did well as Barne's OC but I just think, sans the Sutton years, the job was too big for him and I'm thankful the College seems to have recognized this and ended things. 

The question is does Wooster want a top-notch football program that can compete and win in the NCAC (after building) or one that complements the basketball program and fills a solid niche in the second tier? Ideally, you want each and every program to succeed on its own merits, but there are tradeoffs.

This is a good question.  I would hope that they would strive to want a top-notch football program, but I question whether or not this is actually true.  Cornwell is a basketball guy and as long as Wooster's hoops team is among the DIII elite programs, I'm of the opinion that he's fine with Wooster football being second-tier.  I hope my opinion is proven wrong, but that is just how it seems.

[wally_wabash]

This is a good question.  I would hope that they would strive to want a top-notch football program, but I question whether or not this is actually true.  Cornwell is a basketball guy and as long as Wooster's hoops team is among the DIII elite programs, I'm of the opinion that he's fine with Wooster football being second-tier.  I hope my opinion is proven wrong, but that is just how it seems.

Men's basketball, specifically.  Lady Scots hoopers have had one winning season in the last 20 years, so that's not really a priority either. 

[nike]

Here is the deal--very few people on campus thought Schmitz would be forced out. Very very few. It is not the Wooster way to fire coaches. Even losing ones. No one has ever suggested this was about anything other than wins and losses. There is no other story. Period.
The fact that Cornwell or whomever got him out now is the story.
This isn't DePauw.
Kudos for not waiting as long as OWU. Maybe as someone suggested earlier on here (and I foolishly dismissed it), OWU's overnight success shook up some folks in Wooster and forced action.
Bottom line, Wooster has a chance to improve the football program in a meaningful way for the immediate future.

[Li'l Giant]

I'm inclined to side somewhat with WB and SF here actually.  I think some of what was written in TDR's follow up article was piling on just for the sake of piling on.  They already published their scathing critique of the coach and the program (sourced heavily from this forum).  Publishing more hearsay about player displeasure and on and on is a bit much.  I don't, however, have a problem with TDR calling it a firing if it was a firing (it was).  That much is fair I think.

I'm late to this conversation but I agree with this. Calling out a "resignation" is one thing but piling on is another. Schmitz didn't harm anyone or betray anyone's trust. He just didn't win games. I doubt very seriously he wanted to lose games or his job.

Like Wally I'm curious about what comes next and who the candidates are to replace him.

[sigma one]

 Unless he (or she as the case may be)  leaves for personal reasons (health, to follow a spouse, etc.), goes to another job, wants to get out of coaching, or gets to an age when he has had enough, a coach "retires" or gets fired.  While human nature leads many fans and observers to want to know the "reason(s)" a coach leaves, it's none of their (our) business.  Schmitz had a bad run recently.  Chances are high that Wooster forced his resignation--gave him the choice of either resigning or being fired.   If it was only, or primarily, about wins and losses that would be the humane thing to do given his years of service to the College.  Did external pressure help Wooster decide to make a change?  Did players have some influence?  Were there a combination of factors, as is usually the case?
     Wooster will hire a new coach who will begin a new era there.  Beyond that, I'm not particularly interested in the juicy details. It seems as though some want Schmitz to suffer for his team's lack of success. A few of us might know him personally and either like or dislike him.  I know this board is partly about speculation and always about conversation, agreement and disagreement.  From my side, when a coach does nothing immoral or unethical, he should be allowed to walk out with his head high and with thanks for running a clean program, despite his team's relative success or failure as measured by wins and losses.   Coaches are people, too; sometimes we forget that deciding to leave or being dismissed or being forced to resign affects a family and a long-term relationship with an institution and perhaps a community.   
         

[ExTartanPlayer]

Wooster will hire a new coach who will begin a new era there.  Beyond that, I'm not particularly interested in the juicy details. It seems as though some want Schmitz to suffer for his team's lack of success. A few of us might know him personally and either like or dislike him.  I know this board is partly about speculation and always about conversation, agreement and disagreement.  From my side, when a coach does nothing immoral or unethical, he should be allowed to walk out with his head high and with thanks for running a clean program, despite his team's relative success or failure as measured by wins and losses.   Coaches are people, too; sometimes we forget that deciding to leave or being dismissed or being forced to resign affects a family and a long-term relationship with an institution and perhaps a community.   

Bravo.

I have no knowledge of Schmitz as a person, so I will refrain from commenting on the specifics, but by and large I agree with this. When a coach is forced out because of wins and losses, but there is no other untoward behavior, they should be allowed to leave in peace.

Andy Reid is going to be fired at the end of this season. It's the right thing to do - his time as the Eagles' HC has pretty clearly run its course and some fresh blood is needed in Philly. But he also presided over the most successful decade in team history and led the team to heights never before seen for this franchise; even if we finish 4-12, IMO he ought to get a standing ovation on his way out the door, a thank-you for a good decade that just eventually went south.

While Schmitz is no Andy Reid, he presided over a successful run and left with a career record well over .500, even if selected posters don't seem to think his wins with Sutton count because, you know, apparently you're supposed to win games WITHOUT talented players.  So the program went downhill in the past few years and it's time for a change - fine.  Does that mean we have to comb through the archives to find every little nitpick about what his teams didn't do and kick him extra on his way out the door? So maybe he declined comment for a story about his firing/resignation. IF YOU were fired from your job, would you be ready to talk sunshine and rainbows with reporters about it?

[Ralph Lee Wilson]

A little fun D3 national press with a few quotes from everyone's favorite coach.  http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8757311/division-iii-mount-union-football-team-head-coach-larry-kehres

[wally_wabash]

Andy Reid is going to be fired at the end of this season. It's the right thing to do - his time as the Eagles' HC has pretty clearly run its course and some fresh blood is needed in Philly. But he also presided over the most successful decade in team history and led the team to heights never before seen for this franchise; even if we finish 4-12, IMO he ought to get a standing ovation on his way out the door, a thank-you for a good decade that just eventually went south.

Oh come on, ETP.  It be rude for Philadelphians to NOT boo Andy Reid on his way out.  It's like kicking field goals on first down to not embarrass the other team which is actually more embarrassing than just scoring again.  Philly will boo, and it will be out of respect.  As silly as that sounds.   

[smedindy]

Inquiring minds:

Would Wooster consider doing what St. Thomas did - luring a coach like Monfiletto away after a quick rebuild of a moribund program? Of course, Caruso was at Macalester for two years, but it was a launch to bigger things. St. Thomas was also in bad shape when Caruso got there - underachieving and being left behind by its MIAC brethren.

[bman]

Andy Reid is going to be fired at the end of this season. It's the right thing to do - his time as the Eagles' HC has pretty clearly run its course and some fresh blood is needed in Philly. But he also presided over the most successful decade in team history and led the team to heights never before seen for this franchise; even if we finish 4-12, IMO he ought to get a standing ovation on his way out the door, a thank-you for a good decade that just eventually went south.

Oh come on, ETP.  It be rude for Philadelphians to NOT boo Andy Reid on his way out.  It's like kicking field goals on first down to not embarrass the other team which is actually more embarrassing than just scoring again.  Philly will boo, and it will be out of respect.  As silly as that sounds.   

Given that I have been a lifelong Eagles fan, I will add my take here...

When McNabb (who at the end with the Birds was universally disliked...) came back to the Linc, in his swansong with the Skins, was cheered, when he came on to the field pre-game...When he came on to the field during game time, he was booed.  I equate that to, the Philly fans applauding him as a person, but booing him as an opposing player...
I think the same will apply to Reid...who bar none, has been the best Eagles coach in history...

The fans realize that, and will accord him his respect...

We'll save our batteries and snowballs for Michael Vick

[wally_wabash]

Inquiring minds:

Would Wooster consider doing what St. Thomas did - luring a coach like Monfiletto away after a quick rebuild of a moribund program? Of course, Caruso was at Macalester for two years, but it was a launch to bigger things. St. Thomas was also in bad shape when Caruso got there - underachieving and being left behind by its MIAC brethren.

I would think it depends on the applicant pool.  I have no idea how these coaching searches work.  My guess is that in most instances (especially in cases of dismissal), an AD will have thoughts of people that they will reach out to first.  If you hit a homerun that way, then great.  If not, then I think you go through your applicant pool and find quality people to interview.  Some might be young guys with quick success at traditionally low-acheiving programs, some might be veteran coaches who have been around for a long time.  Were it me and I didn't get a bite from somebody on my short list, then I'd keep an open mind and not necessarily try to find a guy who's path has followed somebody else (like a Caruso) because if you're dead set on find "the next insert-great-coach's-name-here" you're probably going to wind up disappointed.  There's not one mold that we manufacture coaches out of. 

[wally_wabash]

Hiring news out of Greencastle or Wooster might suck me in for some commentary, but I'm probably tapping out for a little bit here over the holiday (the southwest is calling me).  I just wanted to wish everyone here well during the holiday season if I don't get back in until after the break.  I hope everybody has a safe and happy holiday!

[sigma one]

In partial response to the statement about not knowing how coaching searches are done . . .You might or might not be surprised to know that many schools conduct head coaching searches in the same way, or in about the same way, that they conduct faculty searches.  Institutional culture often demands that there be a comprehensive (read "national") search.  There is a search committee often consisting of (some variation of) players in that sport, coaches, faculty, sometimes others, with the AD taking the lead (but sometimes the Faculty Athletic Representative taking a central role) that has input on candidates, frequently (but not always) after the total list of applicants has been reduced by the AD or by a sub-set of the search committee.  After that, the process can go in several directions.   There can be telephone conversations, etc, but eventually the finalists (sometimes 1, and if he is not satisfactory, then another, or sometime 2 or 3) are invited to campus.  That's when the process becomes more public, and in some cases a coach finalist may get cold feet knowing that his candidacy will be known back home.   In a lot of cases the entire campus has the chance to meet the finalists--meetings with players, faculty and staff, the athletic department, the college's administrators, including the president.  Then there is a decision (the committee acting to recommend or actually nearly selecting, with the AD and president--in some combination-- having the final say.).  And, of course, the selected candidate still has the chance to say yes or no, depending upon lots of factors.  I know of selected candidates who have backed out after an offer has been made:  money, location, "My family has changed its mind,"  the present institution is persuasive about staying, and so on.       
     This is abbreviated version.  Do ADs have names in their pocket?  Usually.  But because of campus culture, those favored applicants usually become part of the entire pool.  Of course, at some schools there might be a different way of doing things.  But this is a usual one.  That's why it often takes so long for a new coach to be named. 
     It just doesn't happen most places that an AD has total control of the process.  DIII schools do not generally operate the way the big boys do--coach leaves on Thursday, new coach named by Monday.  DIII ADs and athletic programs do not operate on that model.
     Footnote:  this is simplified; not every detail is the same from place to place, and some places may decide in a particular circumstance,  e.g. the elevation of an assistant coach to take over, or for other reasons, to operate differently.  But it's not far off as I understand it.
     Happy Holidays, everyone.  It's a pleasure to be able to be part of enthusiasm for Division III football.  Special regards,  Pat, Keith, it al for their continuing dedication.