FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[wally_wabash]

Keep your head up, Rotag.  Looks like your Gators showed a little fight on Saturday which seems to have been absent through the first half of the year.  That's a really young team.  They'll get better. 

[ExTartanPlayer]

Whatever is going on at Allegheny, and what the president's view of football is, or the Trustees', the AD is married to a football coach.  He coached at Wabash and is now coaching at Gannon.  I can tell you that she is pro-sports and loves football.  I talked to her on Saturday, and she expressed embarrassment.  I can't imagine really that Allegheny would think of dropping football.  I can understand the post from a frustrated supporter after the Gators' start this season'

Rotag: please see this post from sigma one a few weeks ago.  I'm always amused when someone posts an accusation like this - that the AD doesn't care when a football program is struggling, especially when sigma one (a credible source) provides information that would seem to contradict your assertion that the AD is "not the slightest bit upset" about it.  Upon what do you base your belief that the athletic director does not care about the football program's current struggles?  Has she told you that she doesn't care about the football team?  What do you want, a midseason firing? 

Frankly, the more often I hear that type of accusation leveled at "school administration" the more that I think it's usually bull**** (not always, but it gets thrown around more than it should when a team is struggling).  Not saying that it never happens, but I've rarely heard school administrators do anything that's outright "destructive" to a program.  Sure, some are "more supportive" than others, but nobody's school president is purposely sabotaging the football team because he thinks it will be better for the school's academic reputation.  Maybe someone in admissions is being a stickler and refusing to admit football players that don't meet the school's regular academic profile but, uh, isn't that kind of the point of Division III?  That the athletes are treated like the rest of the school population?

[formerd3db]

ExTartanPlayer:

Just for the sake of mentioning this...the only times I know that has ever happened is:

1) The Robert Hutchins fiasco at the University of Chicago in 1939 (I obviously wasn't born then , but what transpired is well-documented and I even was told that personally by Jay Berwanger, the first Heisman Trophy winner when I had a visit with him) and...

2) The Swarthemore debacle at the beginning of this 21st century.

[HCAlum86]

The Terriers take on OWU at home in a night game this week!

The Hiram Alum in me sees this one being close, but I should probably reserve opinions of that nature for the time being. I was in Gambier for the second half of the game on Saturday (As I arrived significantly behind schedule because I thought the game started at 1 like most conference games). What I saw was Kenyon play a more crisply executed football game than Hiram, which was unfortunate because Hiram was in the game until the last minute, with the final ending up 20-16. To be completely honest, I do not want to recap the game instead I'd rather focus on this week's game against the Bishops. But first, I have to acknowledge the play of SR QB George Blake. He has done an absolutely outstanding job of filling the void Partridge's injury left, and his leadership has become visible. From what I had heard, he had spent the first few years struggling to fully adapt himself into any scheme that the OC at the time provided, and I do believe he has done a great job this year in Stamford's offense.

The interesting part of this game for me will be OWU's ability or inability to attack the perimeter. Hiram's CB play this year has been outstanding, and is definitely something the Terriers can look forward to building on, as both CB's are sophomores. I know Espinosa is more than capable to get the ball down the field. But, I do believe that our cornerbacks will restrict his options in ways that he would only see from a handful of schools in the conference (one of which he saw last week). Hiram has to make sure that this game does not turn into a track meet, as I do not think that we would be able to beat OWU in that sort of game. I really hope that we are able to set the tempo of the game while maintaining the attitude of "playing to win" instead of "playing to keep it close".

I really do believe that this year's Terriers fear no opponent in the conference, which will help in this game but only take them so far. If they can apply consistent pressure to Espinosa and force him into deeper drops, I believe our defense can keep the high powered OWU offense in check... I use that term relatively. Also, I do think Simpson will be open for a few big plays this week, and if Blake can connect deep a few times I believe we'll be in business and open to more run/ quick pass options; without the deep threat I do not see us being able to move the ball as easily.

OWU has a terrific football team, but I do believe this game will be a good one, folks.

[ExTartanPlayer]

ExTartanPlayer:

Just for the sake of mentioning this...the only times I know that has ever happened is:

1) The Robert Hutchins fiasco at the University of Chicago in 1939 (I obviously wasn't born then , but what transpired is well-documented and I even was told that personally by Jay Berwanger, the first Heisman Trophy winner when I had a visit with him) and...

2) The Swarthemore debacle at the beginning of this 21st century.

Too bad you put that qualifier that you weren't born then - I was about to take an age-related potshot

I'll settle for "You're old enough to have visited with Jay Berwanger?"

[sigma one]

Rotag:  Wally gave you the thumbs up version.  We all hope Allegheny improves. ExTartan beat me to it, but I will leave this up anyway.
     I am curious about your assertion that the administration and AD are not supporting the program.  You are not obligated to mention your sources (nor should you be willling to), but the losses this year appear to be because the Gators lack upperclass talent. The AD has been in Meadville, what, a year and a half.  I know this, and I know her:  Her husband is a terrific football coach, now at Gannon.  When he was at Wabash, she came to most games and appeared genuinely supportive of football, and athletics.
     Now, it's possible that the quote unquote upper administration at Allegheny has changed course on football and has required the AD to do the same.  If that is so, why?  To become better academically.  If they think that's the way to go, then I feel sorry for them and for athletics generally.   You may know that too.  THe AD works for the President.  But I just don't get that.  I don't think she would have gone there knowing that athletics would be downgraded. I have heard that the previous AD was sometimes difficult, and perhaps, if accurate, that is part of the reason for the current situation.
     
     

     
'

[ExTartanPlayer]

Very nice breakdown, HCAlum86.  I will be fascinated to see the result of this game.  OWU is likely the better side but if they have a letdown after last week's "big" game and come in sleepwalking, thinking this is the "same old Hiram" - it could well be interesting.  I love seeing the Terriers' toughness this year; Hiram carries a bit of a sentimental place in my heart, as it was the site of my first college game (although HC was not very good at the time), and I've rooted for Hiram to become a more competitive squad.

[HCAlum86]

Very nice breakdown, HCAlum86.  I will be fascinated to see the result of this game.  OWU is likely the better side but if they have a letdown after last week's "big" game and come in sleepwalking, thinking this is the "same old Hiram" - it could well be interesting.  I love seeing the Terriers' toughness this year; Hiram carries a bit of a sentimental place in my heart, as it was the site of my first college game (although HC was not very good at the time), and I've rooted for Hiram to become a more competitive squad.

I appreciate that. And yes, if OWU walks into this one sleep walking (not saying they will), I do believe Hiram will land the first punch. I am proud of this team, even though their record stands at  2-4. This game is also a golden opportunity for Moore to land the elusive "marquee win" over an above average opponent, even though we were so close at Denison this year. I can't wait for Saturday night! GO TERRIERS!!

[sigma one]

HCAlum86, way to go, man.  Wabash did many good things on defense last week, but two might be the key for Hiram to play with OWU.   The first thing they did was successfully defend the flanks v. the horizontal passing game.  OWU completed passes on the outside but for very little yardage.  Those quick throws are part of (sometimes a substitute for) their running game.  Wabash was able frequently to put them in longer yardage than would have been ideal for them.  But if they can work the throws for 4, 6, 8, or more yards, then they are able, as are all teams, to open the offense.  The second was to put consistent pressure on
Espinosa.  Seven sacks, more hurries, some shots as the ball was leaving, and moving when he would have been far more comfortable standing tall in the pocket.  If Hiram can only defend the flanks and not get QB pressure, then Espinosa will have more opportunities to get the ball down the field.  And defending the flanks means tackling well and standing up to the blocking of the receivers.  Those OWU receivers are big, strong, and use their bodies well.  If OWU is able to pick up big chunks, then the prospects for a Hiram victory or close game diminish markedly.
     Good luck.  Great to see that the teams playing you this year have to pay attention.

[jknezek]

ExTartanPlayer:

Just for the sake of mentioning this...the only times I know that has ever happened is:

1) The Robert Hutchins fiasco at the University of Chicago in 1939 (I obviously wasn't born then , but what transpired is well-documented and I even was told that personally by Jay Berwanger, the first Heisman Trophy winner when I had a visit with him) and...

2) The Swarthemore debacle at the beginning of this 21st century.

W&L has a unique history as well. Like most D3 schools with more than 60 or so years of history, W&L played what is now the big boys and occasionally played them well. It's one reason Wilson Field, until the remake a few years ago, was a ridiculously large stadium for current purposes. However, in 1954 there was a massive cheating scandal among primarily scholarship football players. With W&L's incredibly strict honor code there is only one penalty for cheating, expulsion, and a good chunk of players were expelled and the board immediately voted to terminate the giving of all athletic scholarships, setting W&L on the path to the College Division which eventually morphed (more or less) into D3 when it was created 20 or so years later.

However, at the time it was a massive decision and made much of the alumni base very unhappy. Accusations in the old archives flew about how the school was dumping football because it was, even then, rumored to be better for the academic reputation of the college. While the program wasn't even suspended, it was a major change and ldt to big changes in success and scheduling for a long time. When I was in school some of the 5 star generals (50 year reunion and up) still talked about it as a betrayal and a mistake! I'd imagine there are more schools then just the ones you mentioned above with similar tales.

Oddly enough the cheating scandal is usually not remembered as the driver among those older alumni, just the fact that the school turned its back on big-time athletics. I guess we all remember what we want. To be fair, it did take the better part of a decade after the expulsions before W&L regained a winning season in football.

[smedindy]

Has the NCAC improved? Let's do a litmus test against what was the status quo a few years ago:

Allegheny - DOWN, SWIRLING
Denison - UP
DePauw - DOWN, REBUILDING
Hiram - UP
Kenyon - UP
Oberlin - DOWN, REBUILDING (They've been a bit chaotic this year - but the win over CWRU says they're not totally down and out)
OWU - UP
Wabash - STATUS QUO
Wittenberg - STATUS QUO
Wooster - DOWN, REBUILDING

All in all, despite the downgrade of the conference in the rankings, I think most programs are improved from where they were a few years ago.

[formerd3db]

ExTartanPlayer:

Just for the sake of mentioning this...the only times I know that has ever happened is:

1) The Robert Hutchins fiasco at the University of Chicago in 1939 (I obviously wasn't born then , but what transpired is well-documented and I even was told that personally by Jay Berwanger, the first Heisman Trophy winner when I had a visit with him) and...

2) The Swarthemore debacle at the beginning of this 21st century.

Too bad you put that qualifier that you weren't born then - I was about to take an age-related potshot

I'll settle for "You're old enough to have visited with Jay Berwanger?"

Yeah, thanks for being very kind!   (I'm not that old [yet]...at least I don't think so as I'm in way better shape than most of my former teammates - at least they told me that at Homecoming recently!!! ).

Actually, I had the fantastic opportunity to visit with him when I was younger, not that long after my own playing days.  We had a great 4 hour visit and he told me about playing for A.A. Stagg and the "old" days of football at the U of Chicago.  I have his autographed famous "Heisman pose" photo that he signed personally to me - I am also very fortunate to own an original autographed letter by A.A. Stagg and those two items are among my prized personal college football collection.  Anyway, you recall he passed away back in 2002.  He went to every Heisman Trophy presentation until he died. 

[ExTartanPlayer]

Has the NCAC improved? Let's do a litmus test against what was the status quo a few years ago:

Allegheny - DOWN, SWIRLING
Denison - UP
DePauw - DOWN, REBUILDING
Hiram - UP
Kenyon - UP
Oberlin - DOWN, REBUILDING (They've been a bit chaotic this year - but the win over CWRU says they're not totally down and out)
OWU - UP
Wabash - STATUS QUO
Wittenberg - STATUS QUO
Wooster - DOWN, REBUILDING

All in all, despite the downgrade of the conference in the rankings, I think most programs are improved from where they were a few years ago.

I count four downs and four ups.

That word "most" that you keep using?  I do not think it means what you think it means.

I kid, but seriously...not to repeat myself...but it seems like the gains of Denison, Hiram, Kenyon, and OWU are offset by the decline of Allegheny, Wooster, and DePauw, IMO.  Oberlin is almost a separate issue because of the numbers problem.  But for "most" programs to have improved, that would have to be more than 4 of the 10, right?  Now, perhaps I'm willing to hear an argument that Wabash and Witt might even be better than before and thus maybe 6 of the 10 have improved...

[formerd3db]

ExTartanPlayer:

Just for the sake of mentioning this...the only times I know that has ever happened is:

1) The Robert Hutchins fiasco at the University of Chicago in 1939 (I obviously wasn't born then , but what transpired is well-documented and I even was told that personally by Jay Berwanger, the first Heisman Trophy winner when I had a visit with him) and...

2) The Swarthemore debacle at the beginning of this 21st century.

W&L has a unique history as well. Like most D3 schools with more than 60 or so years of history, W&L played what is now the big boys and occasionally played them well. It's one reason Wilson Field, until the remake a few years ago, was a ridiculously large stadium for current purposes. However, in 1954 there was a massive cheating scandal among primarily scholarship football players. With W&L's incredibly strict honor code there is only one penalty for cheating, expulsion, and a good chunk of players were expelled and the board immediately voted to terminate the giving of all athletic scholarships, setting W&L on the path to the College Division which eventually morphed (more or less) into D3 when it was created 20 or so years later.

However, at the time it was a massive decision and made much of the alumni base very unhappy. Accusations in the old archives flew about how the school was dumping football because it was, even then, rumored to be better for the academic reputation of the college. While the program wasn't even suspended, it was a major change and ldt to big changes in success and scheduling for a long time. When I was in school some of the 5 star generals (50 year reunion and up) still talked about it as a betrayal and a mistake! I'd imagine there are more schools then just the ones you mentioned above with similar tales.

Oddly enough the cheating scandal is usually not remembered as the driver among those older alumni, just the fact that the school turned its back on big-time athletics. I guess we all remember what we want. To be fair, it did take the better part of a decade after the expulsions before W&L regained a winning season in football.

jknezek:

Thanks for sharing the W&L history.  I remember when I was doing some research for my files on old collegiate football history of reading about W&L and many other of the smaller colleges and universities that played big-time college football before downsizing, etc. as you mention.  There were some great stories.  Others that currently are inspiring is Fordham this year.  I'm sure you and others recall reading about Lombardi and the "7 Blocks of Granite". Fordham is doing pretty good this year after recently returning to scholarship football as I understand it.  Anyway, very interesting story about W&L -thanks again for sharing it with us.  I always enjoy some of these "timeouts" or "sidebars" thrown in here periodically during the weeks of the season!

[DadofBashWarrior..]

BB16,

A break from football...

Just opened my copy of "500 Strong, Wabash College Students in the Civil War" and I see that you are a contributor.  Well done! 

(This is a collection of stories about the 529 Wabash men who served in the Civil War. The book spans 30 years of student-faculty research and includes the stories of privates to generals.  Wabash sent more soldiers to the Civil War, proportionately, than any college in the US.)

Thanks for the info...I will get the book ...just the kind of book I love to read...Documentary...true story...life and death

Will look for BB16 in the book

Have not posted in quite a while but I read here daily....brutal with our backs going down...I am still hopeful...would like to see ER get a shot at his cousin...the team in Alliance we need to beat