FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[smedindy]

How's this? A 16-team D3 NIT?

Includes:

Wabash
UW - Oshkosh
St. Thomas
Concordia - Moorhead
St. John's
Heidelberg
Millsaps
Rhodes
Thomas More
Alfred
Willamette
Wheaton
Illinois College
Coe
Delaware Valley
Lake Forest

[jknezek]

There is no way we'll add a week to the season.

Pat

I was not suggesting adding a week to the season.  As it is now, teams have 11 weeks to play 10 games.  The play-offs begin in week12.  If all the regular season games are played within the first 10 weeks, then week 11 could be used for the Pool C contenders to play for the spots on the field.  The current system relies on an arcane set of variables that the selection committee follows some years and pays less attention to in others.  As a result, teams get left out either rightly or worngly.  lI would far rather see these played out on the field than left to the wisdom of some committee in the bowels of NCAA headquarters.  For the last 31 years, Wabash usually get screwed by the "committee" anyway.  The AQ's are won on the field and not subject to the whims of the Star Chamber proceedings.  The at large spots could be played out on the field as well and that would put an end to all the second guessing and agnst that the current system generates.

How does this work? You'd still have to have a committee selecting the teams that would play for the C bids. Whether it is 5 C bids today, or 8 resulting in 4 play-in games, someone still has to select those teams and seed them and leave some out based on some criteria. We already have a non-selection based way of getting in, that's pool A. You don't get screwed by not getting selected for a "C", you didn't get lucky to be given a second chance. There is no way to have any kind of at large process, regardless of the number, and not have a couple teams at the end feeling they have gotten screwed for 31 years...

[bashbrother]

How's this? A 16-team D3 NIT?

Includes:

Wabash
UW - Oshkosh
St. Thomas
Concordia - Moorhead
St. John's
Heidelberg
Millsaps
Rhodes
Thomas More
Alfred
Willamette
Wheaton
Illinois College
Coe
Delaware Valley
Lake Forest

There are some really good football teams on this list.   Nice list for perspective.   Although we are all disappointed Wabash didn't make it in,  we can all admit that some of the Top 32 football teams in the country are watching these playoffs.    But I don't think anything is broken.... those teams that won their conferences.... deserve the AQ and the spot.   Good luck to all the teams!

[wabndy]

The SOS difference between Hanover and every single one of those teams is absolutely negligible. 

I can't stress this enough: Wabash can not substantially change their SOS by replacing Hanover with anybody else.  Hanover is not the problem.

But the main point was that you can get an SOS edge and not play RR teams. I just used 5-5 Hanover as a cutoff for the discussion. A team with more than one non conference game can use that method (the NESCAC method) and gain an SOS edge while not taxing themselves too much.

Yes - I agree that the more flexibility you have in scheduling non-conference games - it becomes marginally easier to schedule quality opponents outside your own conference round robin.  A football team in a pool A conference is still going to have a minimum 7 out of its 10 games eaten up in the round robin.  To improve your SOS in any signifigant way you are going to need to schedule teams that will end up with a 7-3 or better record.  As wally has said, even if Hanover had finished 7-3, it wouldn't have put us over the top.  My point is that if you can manage to schedule and win against a 7-3 or preferably 8-2 team, chances are (especially outside the north) that team is going to be regionally ranked. 

My observation is that, for football only, there is not a signifigant enough difference between results against RRO and SOS to have those two justify being two entirely distinct criteria points.  The committee basically said "Wabash has a higher D3 winning percentage, but SJF has both a better record against RROs AND a higher SOS."  I couple that with the fact that, by the criteria, the only "results" factor the committee can consider is how well teams played in RRO games.  Franklin obviously got props (and thus a home playoff game) for a good "result" in a losing effort against UMU. Other than accounting for the second division loss, the committee was essentially told not to consider when doing the seedings (I know franklin got an AQ) that Franklin's other loss was to an abysmal Bluffton.

[firstdown]

Jknezek -

First, I was trying to generate  some conversation about the selection system.  I doubt that the perfect system exists.  Nonetheless, some interesting ideas have already come out.

Second, I do have a deep seated distrust of "selection" committee for good reason.  In 1982, admittly a different time and different system to be sure, an undefeated Wabash team that had been ranked number 1 during the season and then moved down a notch because of a closer than anticipated win was left out of the playoffs.   That decision was shameless and is without excuse or justification.  So, when Wabash was left out yesterday based on this or that esoteric factor, partciularly when there was some monkeying with the regional rankings in the East region, it evokes memories from the past and long held feelings of distrust for any esoteric selection system.

Finally, I agree that an at large ticket is a second chance, and would have been grateful to have seen Wabash not get jumped by an 8 - 2 team.  It happened.  With that deep seated distrust, I would rather see the at large berths won on the field and not in a smoke filled room.

[wally_wabash]

It was THIRTY GD YEARS AGO.  The entire process was different.  1982 is not relevant to any of this.  Not any of it.  Turn the page. 

[jknezek]

It was THIRTY GD YEARS AGO.  The entire process was different.  1982 is not relevant to any of this.  Not any of it.  Turn the page.

+K because I didn't have to type it. In 1982 I was 4 years old and the kids playing on these teams had parents in h.s. That is some impressive grudge.

[smedindy]

I only bring up 1982 in the context of denying the AQ to conference winners. We don't want to go back to the bad old days.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Finally, I agree that an at large ticket is a second chance, and would have been grateful to have seen Wabash not get jumped by an 8 - 2 team.  It happened.  With that deep seated distrust, I would rather see the at large berths won on the field and not in a smoke filled room.

The at large berths will ALWAYS be decided in a smoke filled room, or by a computer system, or whatever.  That's inherent in any system with at large berths. 

jknezek's entire post above is correct and cuts to the heart of why any complaining about who got or did not get the at-larges grinds my gears:

"You don't get screwed by not getting selected for a "C", you didn't get lucky to be given a second chance."

[wally_wabash]

Adding an extra week's worth of games isn't a viable solution.  Not all schools start the season in week 1 (Wabash, in my 18 years following them have never started in week 1...they will break that next year, which is great but that just shows that not everybody plays in week 1), not all schools could easily schedule non-league games in the first week or two.  After that, teams start getting into league play and the options to find games start to get limited...you almost need that one buffer week in there to allow for flexibility.  But really most importantly, who would pay for play-in games?  The NCAA sure as heck wouldn't.  And then who would want to play those games?  The only teams clamoring for those games would be the teams who are very clearly on the wrong side of the bubble. 

The things that I want to examine here are the holes in the current criteria and what reasonable things can be done to illuminate a team's "body of work" so that the committee is better equipped to identify the best teams.  What can we do with the SOS calculation to give it some context and make it less of a bean counting exercise?  What can we do with how we define quality wins so that we are recognizing equivalent wins from region to region?  Those are the kinds of things that we can manipulate to paint a more complete picture...and it doesn't cost the NCAA a dime. 

[smedindy]

Some schools just play nine games as well, by design. Wabash only played nine for a while in the 80's.

[The_Bishop]

This season was the most enjoyable since the Sutton years.  The future looks good, the players played hard all year and the coaching staff did what Watts did at OWU last year.
The NCAC is a top notch group of schools and the second season, important and exciting though it may be, will always be less important than the season to me.

Well said nike!  I have to say I am shocked that Frank Colaprete managed to guide this Wooster team to a 7-3 finish and 3rd place in the NCAC! 

Is Colaprete hands down Coach of the Year in the NCAC because he should be with the turnaround he achieved and what he had to work with!

Quite a turnaround for the Scots.  I was thinking the other day that Jim Barnes went 5-5 in his first year at the helm of Wooster back in '95.  He was turning around a century of futility for that program but still an accomplishment this year nonetheless.

[gobash83]

I have nothing substantial to add to this conversation, but I'm glad it's happening and I'm happy to read it. This board is populated by smart people.

Congratulations to ER and his team. The program has really ascended to a point he (and we, if we all accept and acknowledge that often-icky entitlement of being a "fan") should be proud of. The last two versions of the Little Giants would match up well with the best teams we've ever had. I believe that. Playoffs or not, this is a really, really good Wabash team. And that's indicative of a whole hell of a lot of work. Here's hoping that after the obvious sting of a season abridged dissipates, this group allows themselves to enjoy a real, genuine sense of pride. They've earned it.

WAF.

Well said!

[firstdown]

Wally

The selections went down pretty much as you predicted them.  While hope springs eternal, yesterday's outcome was not a surprise.  My purpose was really to engender a conversation about the at large process.  Because you understand the math involved, I was hoping you might suggest some other, or additional criteria to throw into mix.  While St John Fisher had a good year with some quality wins, something about a team at 8 - 2 jumping a 9 - 1 team just doesn't quite sit right, given past history, and I know that it was long ago in a galaxy far, far away.  Is there a more objective system to select between two teams from different regions and no common opponents?  Perhaps what we have is as good as it gets.  I like the AQ because it is achieved on the field. 

Given the NCAC's round round schedule, it is going to be difficult to improve the SOS.  Wabash scheduling Hampton Sydney for the next two seasons, given their success this year, is a step in the right direction.  The obvious solution is to win the AQ and the problem goes away for the team that wins it, but it would be nice next year, if there is a 9 - 1 runner up the NCAC, to at least have a shot at an at large bid rather than being totally shut out by a 1 and done.  It certainly makes the season a lot more exciting.

[wally_wabash]

This season was the most enjoyable since the Sutton years.  The future looks good, the players played hard all year and the coaching staff did what Watts did at OWU last year.
The NCAC is a top notch group of schools and the second season, important and exciting though it may be, will always be less important than the season to me.

Well said nike!  I have to say I am shocked that Frank Colaprete managed to guide this Wooster team to a 7-3 finish and 3rd place in the NCAC! 

Is Colaprete hands down Coach of the Year in the NCAC because he should be with the turnaround he achieved and what he had to work with!

Quite a turnaround for the Scots.  I was thinking the other day that Jim Barnes went 5-5 in his first year at the helm of Wooster back in '95.  He was turning around a century of futility for that program but still an accomplishment this year nonetheless.

Time to take a break for some NCAC 2013 retrospective thoughts...

- Not entirely sure what Allegheny does from here.  Honestly, the bottom fell right out of that thing.  I picked up on it from some early press clippings from camp, but I don't know if that team played one snap of football this year with confidence.  Not one.  I'm not sure what happens next at Allegheny, but for my money this right here is the biggest surprise of the season in the league.  I don't think we expected Allegheny to be very good...but I never would have thought Allegheny would turn into one of the 15-20 worst teams in D-III.  And this year they were exactly that. 

- I would have loved to see Hiram get 10 games out of Robert Partridge.  Things went south after a 2-1 start, but Hiram showed a lot more fight this year than we have seen from them in recent years.  They were in the game with Witt at halftime (not many can say that...sigh).  They were more than in a game with Denison before the QB injury.  Also took close losses with Kenyon and DePauw.  The final tally is 2-8, but that doesn't do a lot of justice to how improved the Terriers were this season.  I hope they build on that in 2014. 

- Oberlin made it through 10 games with their limited roster and did some good things along the way.  They owned a CWRU team that had a 28-game win streak on them.  They frustrated Wabash again this year.  I'm sure 3-7 isn't what the Yeomen were after this year, but I think they did a pretty good job given their graduation losses and roster limitations.  They'll be improved next year. 

- Kenyon played the final week of the season last year with a shot at the playoffs.  This year with the full round robin, things didn't go quite as well.  After a 4-2 start, the Lords dropped their final four games to finish 4-6.  Last year the Lords were 6-4...and this is what adding Wabash and Witt to the schedule will do to a record.  But all told, with some new players on the offense, Kenyon didn't do a bad job this year.  The only really puzzling result for them is the loss to Earlham.  Besides that, I think things went about as expected for the Lords. 

- DePauw slowly built momentum over the course of the season.  I think if they get that Sewanee game any time that isn't the first game of the year with a new coaching staff, they probably get a win there.  But after dropping the first four, things clicked a little bit for the Tigers when they made the move to Matt Hunt at quarterback.  They won four fo the next five heading into the Monon Bell game and then ran into a brick wall.  But things are very obviously moving in the right direction there with Bill Lynch and DePauw is going to be in the top third of these standings next year I believe. 

- Probably the biggest disappointment this season is Ohio Wesleyan.  I know Allegheny was about as bad as a team can be, but they weren't supposed to contend.  They weren't returning  a boatload of players from a big time offense that went 9-1 in 2012.  5-5 for Ohio Wesleyan is about as bad a miss as we've had in the league in a while.  I'm curious to see what happens going forward.  I think OWU is going to turn this thing over to a quarterback who can move and run a little bit.  It's going to be a different look.  Time will tell if it has more success than the previous version.  But the bigger deal here is that OWU lost their good defense this year.  It's been a given in years past that while OWU mgiht not always know what they're doing offensively, they'll defend the heck out of you.  But not this year.  They took some graduation losses, but this year's OWU defense was not on par with OWU defenses of the recent past.  They have to rediscover that if they want to get back into title talk. 

- Denison was probably the biggest surprise for me in terms of teams overacheiving what I thought they would do.  This was a team that lost its quarterback, top RB (who was also the teams leading receiver) and top WR to graduation.  That's tough to replace and not miss a beat.  But Denison did it.  They went to OWU and got the Bishops in OT.  Then they ripped DePauw.  They they were in a 4-point game with Wittenberg after three quarters.  Not bad.  Not bad at all.  Coach Hatem has that thing going in the right direction. 

- Wooster is the other surprise third place team.  Not quite as big of a surprise for me because Wooster had Richard Barnes in their back pocket so I knew the potential was there for some good things offensively.  The Scots have a ways to go on defense and we are apparently TBD on whether or not they'll need a new QB next year.  It'll be interesting to see if Coach Colaprete can improve his roster depth a bit with a full recruiting season. 

- Wabash played one of the best 9-1 seasons a team can play.  Turnovers galore, a dominant run game, an emerging passing game...as BashDad noted, this is one of the best teams I've seen Wabash put on the field and they stack up with any of Wabash's best ever.  This team is certainly good enough to be included with the field of32, but sadly they were not.  There is much to look forward to.  Nearly all of the defense returns.  Messrs Holmes and Zurek will return to pound away on opposing defenses, Drake Christen has really emerged as a versatile option in the offense.  I haven't spent much time this year talking about next year, but now it's probably ok to say it.  Wabash is going to be better in 2014. 

- Witt started the year with a crappy half of football and got left behind in a game against a great team.  Sound familiar?  Those things happen.  The senior-laden Tigers responded by thrashing every overmatched team in the league and on Championship Saturday they came to C'ville, jumped on Wabash early, and won themselves an outright championship.  Two years ago up in Alliance I had the opportunity to meet Reed Florence.  Reed and his dad had come up to watch the Wabash/Mount Union game and they found us on Friday night at the pregame spot.  Great kid.  It was cool to see him up there supporting the Little Giants and soaking in the quarterfinals.  Now he's got a chance to go back to Alliance as a player this time.  That's a tall order for Wittenberg, but not impossible.  Florence is a great player and he'll hold his own against Mount Union.  They'll have a puncher's chance up there if they advance this Saturday. 

As for awards....I'd lean Fincham for COY.  Is it boring to give that thing to the guy picked to win the league?  Maybe.  But the coaching job he did on 11/9 was phenomenal.  That's a really, really good team that he put it on in a championship situation.  I can understand cases for Colaprete and Hatem as well, but for me it's Joe Fincham this year. 

OPOY is Reed Florence and it isn't close. 

DPOY is a tougher call.  I think it's a four way race between Valentine at OWU, Scola at Wabash, C. Buresh at Wabash, and Sullivan at Kenyon.  You could take either of those four I think.  I'm giving a lean to Cody Buresh.

Newcomer of the Year I think is a three horse race between Darrien Owens at Wooster, Tyson Vogel at Wooster, and Delon Pettiford at Wabash.  Any of the three are good choices.