FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Li'l Giant]

I can't wait to hear how the D1 folks react next year if (and probably when) there's something like this for that 4th spot.

I have mentioned this annual debate on these boards to my friends who watch only FBS football when they talk like a playoff is going to suddenly end all debate.

[Frank Rossi]

Not sure what happened with the Wabash selection...... But when you wake up Mr... Chairman from getting your nap in.... Maybe you can explain  to all of d3 fans how the number 1ranked defense in D3 football.. Also number 1in a few other defensive categories didn't get picked.... Ya I would say Wabash got the shaft.....Wabash clearly was a smart and clear choice for the playoffs... Mr chairman you all should be ashamed for that decision to hold Wabash out which clearly had better criteria than a 2 lose team. Wow really...... Some one should be fired or maybe time for a new leader.............. A true common sense football fan...... Remember 1 lose is better tha . 2........hmmmmmmmmmmm

Just... wow.

[bleedpurple]

Not sure what happened with the Wabash selection...... But when you wake up Mr... Chairman from getting your nap in.... Maybe you can explain  to all of d3 fans how the number 1ranked defense in D3 football.. Also number 1in a few other defensive categories didn't get picked.... Ya I would say Wabash got the shaft.....Wabash clearly was a smart and clear choice for the playoffs... Mr chairman you all should be ashamed for that decision to hold Wabash out which clearly had better criteria than a 2 lose team. Wow really...... Some one should be fired or maybe time for a new leader.............. A true common sense football fan...... Remember 1 lose is better tha . 2........hmmmmmmmmmmm

Just... wow.

Frank, +k for your well thought out explanation and your call for reason in your previous post. 

Wabash dudes, I don't know if the committee made the right decision or the wrong decision, but from a neutral perspective, it would serve you well to recognize that the decision was neither incompetent or scandalous. It just feels that way.  It was a tough call that didn't go  your way. 

The only reason I'm even commenting is because the attacks are getting a little personal and a little harsh.  Your board has had quite a bit of respect around the country. I hope you don't take the Wabash Always Fights so far that it reflects negatively on your fan base. I have no dog in this fight, but maybe venting in a Private Message Thread or something would be an idea. I'm not complaining and am big on free speech. You have every right to do what you want.  But I think it might serve you well in the long run to slow your roll a bit.

I'm out. BP

[bashgiant]

Not sure what happened with the Wabash selection...... But when you wake up Mr... Chairman from getting your nap in.... Maybe you can explain  to all of d3 fans how the number 1ranked defense in D3 football.. Also number 1in a few other defensive categories didn't get picked.... Ya I would say Wabash got the shaft.....Wabash clearly was a smart and clear choice for the playoffs... Mr chairman you all should be ashamed for that decision to hold Wabash out which clearly had better criteria than a 2 lose team. Wow really...... Some one should be fired or maybe time for a new leader.............. A true common sense football fan...... Remember 1 lose is better tha . 2........hmmmmmmmmmmm

Just... wow.

Frank, +k for your well thought out explanation and your call for reason in your previous post. 

Wabash dudes, I don't know if the committee made the right decision or the wrong decision, but from a neutral perspective, it would serve you well to recognize that the decision was neither incompetent or scandalous. It just feels that way.  It was a tough call that didn't go  your way. 

The only reason I'm even commenting is because the attacks are getting a little personal and a little harsh.  Your board has had quite a bit of respect around the country. I hope you don't take the Wabash Always Fights so far that it reflects negatively on your fan base. I have no dog in this fight, but maybe venting in a Private Message Thread or something would be an idea. I'm not complaining and am big on free speech. You have every right to do what you want.  But I think it might serve you well in the long run to slow your roll a bit.

I'm out. BP

I bet if it was your dog in the fight you might be singing a different tune.

[Turtle Head]

Not sure what happened with the Wabash selection...... But when you wake up Mr... Chairman from getting your nap in.... Maybe you can explain  to all of d3 fans how the number 1ranked defense in D3 football.. Also number 1in a few other defensive categories didn't get picked.... Ya I would say Wabash got the shaft.....Wabash clearly was a smart and clear choice for the playoffs... Mr chairman you all should be ashamed for that decision to hold Wabash out which clearly had better criteria than a 2 lose team. Wow really...... Some one should be fired or maybe time for a new leader.............. A true common sense football fan...... Remember 1 lose is better tha . 2........hmmmmmmmmmmm

Win the conference then your "#1" defense would be in the playoffs.  Your defense let DePauw score 3 TD's on them.

[wabndy]

At the risk of turning the dead horse into glue...
This is an issue that everyone in the country should be concerned about. While some of the comments from fellow Wabash fans have not been gentlemanly- I've not seen any that dispute the season sjf had or doubts that they are a legit playoff team. What I latched onto immediately was a comment that could very easily be interpreted as stating that the committee considered regional balance as an unwritten criteria in making the final pool c bids. If they did- that is a major breach of trust - even if the final field looks like fine folks like pat predicted it would. We've had the SOS vs wins discussion ad nauseum. Wabash fans have some beef to be upset given that in the space of our senior class' tenure, Wabash has been on both sides of this issue and come out short twice. Ok- different committees- different results. The question still left in our minds, based on the chairman's comment, is not "why wasn't Wabash selected." The question is "was Wabash, as a third team from the north, even in the conversation to begin with." If not- I'd hope that the NCAA would address this by either publishing criteria that establishes regional balancing as a rule, or makes it clear to the committee that each round of pool b and c voting is independent of prior rounds.  The comments here from folks outside the ncac have tried advance this notion that regional balancing of at large bids is appropriate. Again-that's not a worthwhile argument so long as it's not a part of the selection criteria.

For my Wabash fans- discussion of d3fb.com rankings, defense rankings, etc, don't belong in this conversation either.

[bleedpurple]

Not sure what happened with the Wabash selection...... But when you wake up Mr... Chairman from getting your nap in.... Maybe you can explain  to all of d3 fans how the number 1ranked defense in D3 football.. Also number 1in a few other defensive categories didn't get picked.... Ya I would say Wabash got the shaft.....Wabash clearly was a smart and clear choice for the playoffs... Mr chairman you all should be ashamed for that decision to hold Wabash out which clearly had better criteria than a 2 lose team. Wow really...... Some one should be fired or maybe time for a new leader.............. A true common sense football fan...... Remember 1 lose is better tha . 2........hmmmmmmmmmmm

Just... wow.

Frank, +k for your well thought out explanation and your call for reason in your previous post. 

Wabash dudes, I don't know if the committee made the right decision or the wrong decision, but from a neutral perspective, it would serve you well to recognize that the decision was neither incompetent or scandalous. It just feels that way.  It was a tough call that didn't go  your way. 

The only reason I'm even commenting is because the attacks are getting a little personal and a little harsh.  Your board has had quite a bit of respect around the country. I hope you don't take the Wabash Always Fights so far that it reflects negatively on your fan base. I have no dog in this fight, but maybe venting in a Private Message Thread or something would be an idea. I'm not complaining and am big on free speech. You have every right to do what you want.  But I think it might serve you well in the long run to slow your roll a bit.

I'm out. BP

I bet if it was your dog in the fight you might be singing a different tune.

Not taking that bet!  And I may even be singing it louder and more out of tune! I think the debate is good and I think there's nothing wrong with citing evidence  as to why you Wabash deserves to be in the playoffs. And there's nothing wrong with expressing the emotion behind it all.  I do think that if I was caught up in the debate (I would probably be more edgy than most any UW-W posters if our "dog" was in the fight), I would want to know from someone from the "outside" if I was going too far over the line.  Of course, then I would assess for myself and then either back off or not. That's the most I would ask any of you to do. Keep doing what you want. The comments were intended just as FWIW type statements.  Carry on as you are led to!

[firstdown]

Turtle Head - the Monon Bell Game was on ice at 35 - 7.  Wabash called off the dogs.  It is traditional for as many seniors as possible to play in the game as well as other non starters. This group of seniors had invested four years in the football program and won the Bell Game all four years.  They certainly deserved the opportunity.   DePauw got a couple of scores in the later phases of the game, so what?  Wabash was still number 1 in total defense even giving up those two "garbage scores".  A number of the defensive starters were nicked  up and in addition to wanting to let seniors and other play, what sense did it make to leave those guys in when they needed to be ready for a possible play off game and the Bell Game was out of reach?

Of course Wabash should have won the AQ.  It didn't.  It ran into a Witt team that was better than day.  So Wabash ended up throwing itself upon the tender mercies of the "Committee".  This usually ends up badly for Wabash with 2010 and 2013 being only the most recent examples.  In 2011, when Wabash go in with the AQ, it certainly represented itself and the NCAC well with a couple of wins and a good, if unsuccessful game with Mount Union in the regional finals.

[ExTartanPlayer]

What I latched onto immediately was a comment that could very easily be interpreted as stating that the committee considered regional balance as an unwritten criteria in making the final pool c bids...the question is "was Wabash, as a third team from the north, even in the conversation to begin with."

Agreed.  It's not just about Wabash, I would be making the same comments regardless of which team(s) were the last one up; it's about whether the committee factors in how many teams from each region are already in when it gets late in the Pool C discussion.

There may be some Wabash-fan-paranoia at work here, but I'm an impartial observer & I made a comment as soon as this was posted (before any of the Bash guys started jumping in) that this comment from the chair struck me the wrong way.  Now I do think it's possible this was an off-the-cuff remark that is being interpreted far too literally; as Keith said on another thread related to this discussion, we are putting a single comment from a 30-minute conversation with a tired guy who may or may not be a particularly polished public speaker under a very, very fine microscope, and I think he may have just made somewhat of a loose remark that reflected his observation of how the process unfolded rather than meaning that they actually discussed how many teams from each region got in.  But it is a key point to raise for the future just to make sure that this is NOT a consideration.

For my Wabash fans- discussion of d3fb.com rankings, defense rankings, etc, don't belong in this conversation either.

+K for pointing this out (although only one or two fans have even brought this up here).  This isn't unique to Wabash fans; in several "comments" on the playoff bracket post, I saw references to D3fb's top-25 rankings and other things that are irrelevant (i.e. comments that UW-Oshkosh belonged in the field just because they were in the top 10 of the D3fb poll all season).  Anyone bringing those things into the conversation needs to better educate themselves on the selection process (which isn't hard, given that this website has a detailed FAQ on the playoffs and that wally_wabash explains it every single week with his mock selection exercise in the Pool C thread).

[wabashcpa]

Could it be argued that Pool B is over-represented with 3 teams in the field based on the available pool of qualified candidates, compared to 5 Pool C teams based on that available pool of qualified candidates?  For the sake of this argument lets say a qualified candidate has two losses or fewer.  I realize teams that are independent or not in large conferences need to be accounted for, but it just seems out of proportion on the surface.

[jknezek]

Could it be argued that Pool B is over-represented with 3 teams in the field based on the available pool of candidates, compared to 5 Pool C teams based on that available pool of candidates?  I realize teams that are independent or not in large conferences need to be accounted for, but it just seems out of proportion on the surface.

The Pool B ratio is fixed. It doesn't have anything to do with the number of appropriate candidates, simply to do with the number of teams in Pool B. So the Pool B team slots go up or down not with the quality, but with the quantity, the same way Pool A bids go up or down not by the quality of conference champions, simply by the quantity of qualifying conferences. That is the only legitimate way to handle Pool B. There will be fewer Pool B slots going forward as the MASCAC and SAA complete their probationary periods, however this will not lead to an increase in Pool C bids.

Second chance teams are going to need to be very lucky going forward unless something major allows for more tournament slots or the Pool A criteria is drastically changed.

[GRIZ_BACKER]

I wonder what the over/under is on the last post complaining about the selection process?  Thanksgiving Day? 

[jknezek]

I wonder what the over/under is on the last post complaining about the selection process?  Thanksgiving Day? 

No, it's at least the end of the playoffs. I'm betting we'll see some more right before the start of the 2014 season and a few more mentions before the 2014 Witt game. If Bash drops that one, or any other conference game leading to no "A" bid, the complaining will reappear in the weeks leading up to selection Sunday.

To be honest, it is a legitimate beef. On the other hand, that's the case with all bubble teams who miss out. DON'T LEAVE YOURSELF ON THE BUBBLE.

[Wfaf1234]

I think it's about time to close up shop on this conversation. Wabash had one heck of a season. The program has now been elevated to the point that 9-1 an a Monon Bell isn't a dream season anymore. Of course I feel Wabash should have made the tournament. We all realize that there are flaws to the selection committee (not trying to start anything). However, our complaining on here is not going to suddenly have the Ncaa drop Sjf and put the wallies back in the tournament. Call your congressman, sign a petition, or Write a letter to te chairman if you feel so inclined as to inform him of your disapproval. But continuously complaining on here is going to do nothing, but divert attention away from one of Wabash's best teams in its history. The seniors went 37-6 with 4 bells. The team is extremely young. Needing replacements only for two linemen, special teams, a wide receiver, and linebacker (big hole there) the team has a chance to be brilliant next year. Lets talk about the season the team had this year or will nave next.

One thing I have noticed that was not touched on. Kyle Najar, former Db and DBs coach for the Little Giants, left his position on Sunday to begin his training to pursue a career as a navy seal. I just wanted to recognize him and give everyone a little perspective.

[wabndy]

I wonder what the over/under is on the last post complaining about the selection process?  Thanksgiving Day? 

Ummm... Some here are still discussing 1983.