FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[BashBacker#16]

Ex-Tartan,

I think Florence has gotten progressively better each season.  The biggest area I have seen is his passing, consistently his accuracy.  Now, add that to his ability to evade pass rushers and his ability to make plays with his legs - he's damn good!  He also fits that system perfectly and has the supporting cast around him.  Btw:  Cunningham can "ball" and he's 6'3 220...  His TD last week on the screen was sick.

My opinion, he's not Jake Knott (especially over a career), but if he leads Witt to a win this Saturday, he's right there - especially if you are picking a season.  BashDad (Russ) is in that group as well for his senior year.

My take...

BB16

PS. What happened to John Carroll and Illinois Wesleyan? 

[bufordscot]

As a result of multiple complaints, I've set jettssss' posts to be pre-moderated. I can't tell if he's the player or the player's dad/relative, but so you know, sir, this is not acceptable here.

duno abut jettssss but i be roosting four whit sadurday

[jettssss]

...  I dont care who you are Wabash dad.. I speak the truth... Sorry pat that people can't take the truth on this board..

[Pat Coleman]

...  I dont care who you are Wabash dad.. I speak the truth... Sorry pat that people can't take the truth on this board..

And he's gone, it appears. Not banned but self-deleted.

[bashbrother]

wow....  did that really happen?   A 14 post burn out. 

http://youtu.be/Uh7l8dx-h8M

[BashDad]

Ex-Tartan,

I think Florence has gotten progressively better each season.  The biggest area I have seen is his passing, consistently his accuracy.  Now, add that to his ability to evade pass rushers and his ability to make plays with his legs - he's damn good!  He also fits that system perfectly and has the supporting cast around him.  Btw:  Cunningham can "ball" and he's 6'3 220...  His TD last week on the screen was sick.

My opinion, he's not Jake Knott (especially over a career), but if he leads Witt to a win this Saturday, he's right there - especially if you are picking a season.  BashDad (Russ) is in that group as well for his senior year.

My take...

BB16

PS. What happened to John Carroll and Illinois Wesleyan? 

Cunningham is a beast. Yes.

As far as judging quarterbacks and assembling them into a pecking order, I consider career stats as secondary criteria, if I consider them at all. That may be somewhat transparent, but so be it. I watched Knott closely for a single season and my consideration of him as top dog isn't informed really at all by the numbers he put up over four years. That stuff--the career accumulation--is illustrative of something, maybe even being a great quarterback, I just don't think it's a good distinguishing measure in sorting the best quarterbacks from the rest. Four separate books in a given series may look really good when their spines are all lined up on the shelf, but you still can only read them one at a time. Or something.

Okay, bad metaphor.

What I mean is, the level of exposure to any player has an affect on how they're perceived, because how couldn't it? It's the same as anything else that involves, like, a body of work. The more sustained success, over the longest period of time, the easier it is to feel comfortable proclaiming this or that as the best ever at whatever. I tend to regard, say, Scorsese at a higher level than Coppola, but I would probably take THE GODFATHER over TAXI DRIVER or RAGING BULL. I'd also take Jeff Donovan over, you know, Alex Tanney; or Aaron Boehme over Rob Adamson; or Shane McSweeney over Spud Dick. Hell, while we're here, I might as well say I still regard Tyler Dicken over Spencer Stanek, based entirely on the rush that was seeing this throw two years ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl5BgzAY-ZE#t=0m23s . I know this last comparison is especially unfair. I don't know what to do about it.

To me, all other things--namely, wins--being equal, it boils down to a single question: who would I prefer to watch in those six seconds after the ball is snapped? In the NCAC, there's been no touching Knott since he left. Not even close. That is, until this year. I'm still picking Jake over Florence, but the fact that I'm willing to indulge the conversation is pretty cool. Reed Florence is good.

[wabashcpa]

The one good point our newly departed friend made was that the commentary from the Witt coaches in the press box was entirely unacceptable.  You're representing your school, guys.  Stay classy.

[sigma one]

As one who has often in the Board lauded Knott's excellence, I would say that Florence definitely deserves to be in that small, elite group (Pantheon) of NCAC quarterbacks.  He is a different kind of QB than Knott, but he appears to have the leadership qualities, arm strength and accuracy, and is helped by a superior group of receivers (as was Knott). 
     I went back and looked at the 1stTeam All-NCAC QBs since 2003 (the year following Knott's departure).  Here they are:  Smith (Allegheny), Rummell (Earlham), Harbaugh (Wabash), Huff (Wabash), Hudson (Wabash, X3), Zoeller (Wittenberg, X2), Espinosa (Ohio Wesleyan), and this year Florence.  Harbaugh (a Gagliari finalist), Hudson (X2), Zoeller (X2), Espinosa, and Florence have been POY on offense.
     Of them all, Florence is the most athletically gifted and multi-dimensional.  This is not to denigrate any of the others; they all had significant talent.  By the way, I want to make a case for Dustin Huff as the most forgotten or underrated.  Huff was built like a linebacker and ran like one.  He holds the Wabash record for QB efficiency in a single season at 170.9 (which led the NCAA in 2006), and his career efficiency was 165.9 (best in Wabash history).  His career completion rate was 65%.  He twice in the same season threw for 5 TDs in a game.  He holds the Wabash record for passing yards in a single game, 477.  He's tied with Harbaugh and Hudson for TD throws in a season with 29 (behind only Knott's 34 and 35).  Of his 339 career throws, only 13 were intercepted.  Ahem, he also played on the Wabash "hands team," had his leg broken, and was (after a game and a half with another QB) replaced by Matt Hudson.
     All this said, based on his performance this year (and last as well) Florence joins Knott at the top the group of QBs in this century, with Knott getting a slight edge because of his entire body of work.  As an aside, here are the Second-Team QBs year by year since '03: Holmes (Wittenberg), Schafer (Wooster), Sanchez (Kenyon), Rummell (Earlham), Huffman (Wittenberg), Holter (Wooster), Huffman (Wittenberg), Salopek (Allegheny), Belton (Wabash), Florence (Wittenberg--2012).     

     Good luck to Reed and his teammates v. the Purple Raiders. 
     

[smedindy]

One thing you mentioned is that the receivers that Knott (and many Wabash QBs) have had, and Florence (and many Witt QBs) have had. Excellence at both schools at that position, long term, definitely helps QBs excel.

Think about Rummell for a minute. Who did he have at Earlham? I know he threw the ball a badillion times, but I don't think anyone was lauding his WRs in song, story and praise.

I'm also a bit disappointed that we didn't get to see Partridge all year to see what he could have done.

[smedindy]

wow....  did that really happen?   A 14 post burn out. 

http://youtu.be/Uh7l8dx-h8M

I bet he thought he dropped the mic, yet he just pushed it over to the side...

[firstdown]

Wabashcpa - I agree with your comments.  I was sitting nearby and heard the offensive language.  There were also a good number of ladies and children within earshot as well.    Dean Bambry was also near by and shouted up to the Witt coaches to tone down their language. 

To the departed one, you had a valid point to make and it has clearly influenced your view of Wittenberg.  It is also is your right to support Mount Union on Saturday to defeat Wittenberg based upon the manner in which they deported themselves.  Your choice of the of persona of jetsss was certainly a unique way to express your position.  I found your more refined and lucid voice to be a superior way to voice your displeasure.

[Pat Coleman]

The one good point our newly departed friend made was that the commentary from the Witt coaches in the press box was entirely unacceptable.  You're representing your school, guys.  Stay classy.

Especially since it bleeded over into the broadcast.

[Joe Wally]

Happy Thanksgiving, Fellas!

[AlleghenyAlum]

Withdraw, dude. The player you're representing--it's no real mystery--is done no service by this and is otherwise probably embarrassed as all hell. Just stop.

First, it is very apparent that those who frequently post on this board have judged many teams by the stats and commentary not on what the actual players and teams represent.  Everyone can choose to support their teams and conference any way they want that is what a public message board is about, unfortunatly on this board if a poster doesn't agree with opinions of the majority or doesn't communicate them in perfect way then the immediate reaction is to remove them from this forum which is a very sad statement.

Next, there is no player representation here I love all of the Wabash players- regardless as to what Basha Dad may think.  The comments toward Witt has nothing to do with the players, it has to do with the disgusting representation that was displayed at the Wabash game.  As a fan in the stands where children were present to hear a coach from the Witt team in the box say F*** all of you to the Wabash grand stand after the first Witt touch down was DISGUSTING, not classy, not sportsman like!!  I realize most of you weren't there  but many of us were and this was heard loud and clear!!  So before you judge someone and think you know what they represent you may want to take off your rose colored glasses and realize there is more to the story.  Also, maybe it best to not degrade someone for their opinion try to understand it is very difficult to cheer for a team that acted in the way they did during that game - again if you weren't there you would not possibly understand.  So please know cheering for Mount is no disrespect to the conference but team respect is earned not just given.  No other team in the NCAC this season displayed that kind of blatent disrespect for the other team.  If you choose to not believe this go back and listen to that game and count how many apologies had to be made by the commentators regarding the backgroud "noise" and language that came from this particular group of team staff in the press box. 

Hopefully, this spelling and grammer will meet the standards of those who control this board.  As others have said if you don't like the opinion of someone don't respond, don't acknowledge it - that's what many of us have had to do for years when reading the random comments and opinions on this board. 

All of these guys work hard to represent their schools on the field and play outstanding football, congratulations to all of them!  Shame on all of you who are so quick to judge and crucify those you don't agree with or understand.

Clearly two different people posting on this name.  I understand that foul language might take away some respect from Witt in your opinion, but i'm sure there is more to it, like them beating you that really upset you.

Sometimes I get upset at how our country gets offended for other people.  A little foul language never hurt anyone.  Sure it is distasteful and rude, but you came to this board and made yourself look just as bad.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

Happy Thanksgiving to all posters and lurkers. I am thankful for so many things. Safe travels all.