FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[1837Tigers]

   

I have been there and done that a number of times in my own career.   While it is a bit more complicated in the business world,  to have an employer know that you are being recruited by another firm,  only to come back and say,  I didn't get it or chose not to take it...  a few uncomfortable moments.

Very true, but ER has already been down that road once before when he was among the candidates for the Valpo job and had to pull out.  So you've gotta believe the W administration has strongly suspected this would happen again.

I think it's all fine if things are being handled honestly and professionally (and by all accounts they are).  We're kind of getting back to the idea of stepping stones and placing, in my opinion, an unnecessary negative connotation on that idea.  Division III football is not the top of the mountain for most of these guys- especially the really, really good ones.  Guys with 20-30 years of coaching left to do, probably aren't doing it one place.  That's just not how the profession works anymore.

No doubt.  Losing Bill Lynch to IU in 2005 was very, very tough -- but completely understandable given what he was offered and the opportunity to coach with his good friend Terry Hoeppner as well as his son.  Absolutely thrilled he is back.  But you're correct - there are a lot of interesting new challenges that confront these guys and you can't begrudge them the opportunity to take one on.  Whatever happens, ER has served your school very well.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

I think a stepping stone at a D3 can be a good thing. It means you are attrating good coaches who are moving up the ranks. If a school lb is proven to advance a career you should get good candidates every time you have an opening.
since we are speculating. If ER gets the UWW job and Wabash does a National search, does Dean Paul aply?

[ExTartanPlayer]

If ER gets the UWW job and Wabash does a National search, does Dean Paul aply?

Ha!  That would be an interesting trick.  To go from UWW-job-finalist to replace-the-guy-who-got-the-UWW-job-finalist.

[Li'l Giant]

If ER gets the UWW job and Wabash does a National search, does Dean Paul aply?

Ha!  That would be an interesting trick.  To go from UWW-job-finalist to replace-the-guy-who-got-the-UWW-job-finalist.

The OC at ONU is former Wooster coach Mike Schmitz. Does he end up HC at ONU if Dean Paul leaves. So many moving parts. It's like Game of Thrones up in here.

[smedindy]

If ER gets the UWW job and Wabash does a National search, does Dean Paul aply?

Ha!  That would be an interesting trick.  To go from UWW-job-finalist to replace-the-guy-who-got-the-UWW-job-finalist.

The OC at ONU is former Wooster coach Mike Schmitz. Does he end up HC at ONU if Dean Paul leaves. So many moving parts. It's like Game of Thrones up in here.

Winter is coming!

[SaintsFAN]

If ER gets the UWW job and Wabash does a National search, does Dean Paul aply?

No.  He stays at Northern if he doesn't land the Whitewater gig.

[formerd3db]

   

I have been there and done that a number of times in my own career.   While it is a bit more complicated in the business world,  to have an employer know that you are being recruited by another firm,  only to come back and say,  I didn't get it or chose not to take it...  a few uncomfortable moments.

Very true, but ER has already been down that road once before when he was among the candidates for the Valpo job and had to pull out.  So you've gotta believe the W administration has strongly suspected this would happen again.

I think it's all fine if things are being handled honestly and professionally (and by all accounts they are).  We're kind of getting back to the idea of stepping stones and placing, in my opinion, an unnecessary negative connotation on that idea.  Division III football is not the top of the mountain for most of these guys- especially the really, really good ones.  Guys with 20-30 years of coaching left to do, probably aren't doing it one place.  That's just not how the profession works anymore.

No doubt.  Losing Bill Lynch to IU in 2005 was very, very tough -- but completely understandable given what he was offered and the opportunity to coach with his good friend Terry Hoeppner as well as his son.  Absolutely thrilled he is back.  But you're correct - there are a lot of interesting new challenges that confront these guys and you can't begrudge them the opportunity to take one on.  Whatever happens, ER has served your school very well.

Wally and 1837T:

I agree with both you 100%.  Being one of those old time "traditionalists", I almost hate to admit that the assessment process in the coaching profession has changed in this modern era for all the reasons you and others have mentioned.  Of course, that is not to say that many of these young coaches of this era do not believe in the DIII philosophy (at least the foundations/basic premises) because I believe that most of them do.  However, it is just that the economic opportunities and the changing face of college football being improved in many facets at all levels have given many of them much more options if they are given the choice.  There will be some who still do that, especially if they have a good "gig" going and because they simply love their local and situation-and perhaps SaintsFAN is right that Dean Paul will be one of them.  Yet the lure of bigger salaries for HC's (yes, even at some DIII schools) and sometimes attractive aura at the other levels of collegiate football are aspects that some simply can't turn down for themselves or their families (nor perhaps they shouldn't)  and no one can blame them for that.

It will be interesting to see what happens in this next week.  Even Dan Enos of Central Michigan couldn't resist the opportunity as he has left his HC job there yesterday and accepted the OC/QB coaching position with Bielema at Arkansas.  I did not see that coming.  However, who can blame him as he is set to make 1/2 million$ salary (I may be mistaken, however, I believe that is much more than he was being paid at Central Michigan).  Anyway, I always enjoy these couple of weeks around the annual NCAA Coaching Convention as it is interesting to see at all levels "who goes where" including the assistant coaches.  Besides, what else is there to do during this time of the "off season", particularly on these boards?        

[wally_wabash]

Doc-

I'm seeing Dan Enos at $375k last year at CMU (that's the lowest number in FBS and just barely more than Wabash pays according to parking lot sources).  Enos is set to make $550k as OC at Arkansas.  I'll take that "demotion" all day every day. 

Side note- also the first place I've seen that has a number on Leipold's new deal: $650k.  Not shabby. 

[sigma one]

Um, six and a half times what LL was making at UWW, but less than twice a much as ER makes at Wabash!

[Pat Coleman]

I did just a little bit of nosing around through non-profit tax return databases today and found that Larry Kehres made $159,000 in 2012, his last year as head coach. However, keep in mind he was/is also the athletic director.

By the way, it appears Dean Paul made $84,000 that year. It seems he is a relative of a member of the board of trustees and the school is obliged to report payments to him even if he's not among the highest-paid employees.

[bashbrother]

For the time, effort & commitment that Div. III coaches (HC & Assistants) put in.....  I already had a ton of respect for them regardless of salary level.   Having run into a few things on and off line since this topic came up on this board.... and realizing the true reality about what they actually get paid,  my respect has gone up significantly.

[sigma one]

Bashbro, Amen to that.

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

A friend of mine was an assistant coach at a D3 school in the SouthEast.  He had his Masters degree.  This was in the mid-late 2000s.  He was making around $25,000 a year as a D3 assistant., working 80 hours a week and didn't even get free meal plan.  He is now a HS DC in South Carolina and makes between 45-50K and only teaches 4 classes.

[Joe Wally]

You know, a bit of drinking goes on in the parking lot of Wabash games.  That could explain part of our problem here.

[formerd3db]

Wally, Pat, sigma, bashbro, K&J and Joe W:

Great research and most interesting.  Thanks for sharing.  I had heard the Enos was the lowest in FBS, however, wasn't sure of the exact amount.  Apparently, his new Arkansas contract has a no compete clause (those I hate in any business  ) that says he can't take any other OC job in the SEC, unless it is a head coaching job.  Anyway, as you say, it is a nice opportunity for him.  I think he did a good job at Central, although I would have gone for the tie in the bowl game this year to force OT.

Also, Pat, the salaries in DIII sure have come a long way in the last 2-3 decades haven't they?  My college HC was making about $51,000 when I played "way back when", yet as you say i.e. similar to Kehres, most of that was his teaching salary and later as AD (which all full-time coaches at Hope are required to teach; not a requirement at some  schools).  He told me that the actual coaching salary back then for him was well <$10,000 and...he turned down a +m$ offer for the HC position at a DI school out in Calif a few years after my time after Hope's big success(a big-time school in the PAC-10, where he played). Thanks for finding and sharing that interesting info with us.

And finally, K&J, I know what you mean.  The assistant coaching salaries at DIII schools have an extremely wide range.  I know of some who make/made only $5,000-6,000 per year.  Some part-timers are even lower, sometimes even as low as $500.  All depends on the school.  While some of this is okay for an entry level position for some of the young single recent college players who graduated, are going into the coaching profession and starting work on their Masters degrees at the same time, I'm sure we all agree that it is tough for a young family for those who are married.  As you have mentioned, many of the h.s. jobs pay way more than that.  I know a former collegiate coordinator at a DIII school who was making decent salary (mid $30,000's, although he was also the HC in another sport at the school).  Yet, as much as he loved the college game and teaching the young men at that level, he left to take a h.s. position like your friend because it more than doubled his salary.  That was essentially a "NB'er" since he had a wife and two young children.