FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[badgerwarhawk]

I have. It was Wabash last year after winning a favorable first round match up against an unranked team they played a top ranked UWW a good half of football only to get beaten like a red-headed step child in the second half.  Better be glad you did. That failed audition may have been what cost Reaburn the UWW job.

If that were the case do you think that we would have selected him as one of only four finalists out of roughly a hundred applicants?  He was a legitimate candidate but his odds took a hit when an internal candidate decided not to follow Liepold to Buffalo choosing to stay and seek the position. 

 

[wabashsid]

Allow me to break up the conversation a moment with this....

Wabash Sports Release - Sept. 1, 2015

[bashbrother]

Allow me to break up the conversation a moment with this....

Wabash Sports Release - Sept. 1, 2015

Thank you for the early gift.   We needed it.   

As always,  thank you for the great job that you all do,  week in and week out.

WAF!

[USee]

Ubiased observer here. I saw Wabash last Saturday at Wheaton and took a pretty good look at HSC and their team. I think Wabash is the heavy favorite but I will paint a picture of how HSC wins.

HSC is going to come out with an offense nothing like they sported a year ago. From what I can see they have 5 returning O-Linemen, one of whom is making the transition to H-back. They have a stud freshman TB, Kyree Koonce, was getting some D1 sniffs as a junior in HS before he broke his leg and now he wants to play for the love of the game. They have 2 semi experienced WR's and a TE who caught 7 balls last year but with decent size (6-4 240). Looks to me like they are preparing to play the ball control and play action game. That requires a pretty stout defense. On that side HSC has 2 returning DE's and their second leading tackler at LB. 2 other LB's have game experience and their secondary is the most experienced part of the team with Owens, Haskins and Henry. They are going to have to play 2 DL that are young and inexperienced. So they control the ball, get a couple play action bombs and then on defense they stack the box and let their veteran DB's cover 1 on 1. They get some turnovers, run 70 plays to Wabash's 50 and voila, a sweet V in Virginia.

Now there will be some credible doubters on here who wonder how an inexperienced defensive front will be able to stop 5 returning starters on the Bash OLine and the Zurek machine. I can see how the veteran Tiger secondary may limit the Wabash passing attack. So it boils down a game of strength on strength. That is the proven and dominant defensive front of the LG's vs the unproven, but experienced OL (plus Dalton Lee at H and KK pounding the rock) of HSC. These games are won up front and unless the Tigers are hiding some JJ Watt look alike's I have a hard time seeing how this veteran Wabash D is going to give up 200 yds and 3 TD's to a team that averaged 3.5 yds per carry and was a passing offense a year ago. 

I give credit to HSC for a head coach with a 111-46 record and a wild atmosphere with a long road trip for the visitors so I tend to think this may be closer than many of the LG posters believe, but I think Wabash wins this game even if they lose the turnover battle mainly because their strength isn't likely to become their weakness against a team that is changing its identity.

my two cents.

[HSCTiger fan]

There's obviously no way that anybody is going to talk you away from this idea that HSC and Wabash have done the same things in the last three seasons.  But if you truly, honestly believe that 6-4, 9-3, and 7-4 is just as good as 8-2, 9-1, 10-2 you're just wrong.  You're just flat out wrong.  Your blind loyalty won't allow you to acknowledge it, but you're really, really wrong.  Really good teams in Division III don't lose 3-4 games every single year.  THESE Tigers have met that standard of mediocrity every single season.

You are right Wally. They did not do the same things. HSC won their conference Chapionship twice. I never said they were just as good. I said Wabash has done nothing more nationally. Accomplishing more is not the same as saying one team's better than the other. I've stated many  times Wabash is better.

How is your first round playoff win so much better than HSC's? You keep pointing to subjective national polls. Take a look '13 HSC beat #36 Maryville then took the lead into the 4th quarter against 2nd ranked Linfield to lose by 10. '14 Wabash beat #30 Franklin to turn around and play a good half the next week against UWW then lose by 24. You can only offer speculation has how your team might have done in '12 when they beat no significant team in the regular season. It doesn't matter what you think, it matters what you did. You had a great season and missed the playoffs. So did 220 other teams.

I've said HSC is a top 80% team and Wabash is a top 90% team. You guys hear what you want to hear, read what you want to read. But I have argued nothing more than over the last three years HSC has accomplished more. They have. It doesn't matter if Wabash is better or not. I understand completely that they are a better team. But the best team does not always win. Our guys will be happy with their championship accomplishments. You guys can be happy with beating HSC. Given a choice today of beating Wabash and losing the ODAC or losing to Wabash and winning the ODAC, I'm very confident most at HSC would choose the ODAC championship 100 out of 100 times.

Sorry but really good teams in DIII don't make the playoffs 1 time in 3 years and promptly get stomped in the second round. Even though Wabash is better than HSC does not mean they've been a recent factor on the national scene. If they have its been no more or less than HSC. I don't have to be an expert to see that.

[wabco]

The weather is supposed to be hot hot hot on Satuday.  While I would suspect from HSC Tiger Fan ... nothing like weather bothers the vaunted Tigers, ... in real life this is a major factor.  Anyone have comments on how this may impact play, and  strategy.  From my following Wabash over the years and the ER coaching team, Wabash is deep and the two deep lineup will see lots of playing time and will go deeper. It will be interesting to see if the QBs go deeper as well.  I do know that , if this were a home game, lots would see the field.  Do not know what the travel team constraints will impose.

HSC Tiger Fan said there will be 8,000 to 10,000 fans for the HSC.  That will be fun.  I know Wabash fans will be there ... although traveling several states will cut the amount to less that HSC.  We will ... however ... support our team with gusto.  Look forward to meeting HSC fans and a great game.  HSC Tiger Fan ... where do these tailgates take place?  Is there a fence around the stadium or is it more open (from the pics, it looks more open).  I know HSC is charging Wabash fans for parking cars but not for tickets.  (A spin on the Dannies ... who charge for both and then throw in the gestapo for free.)

Here is for an injury free game in the heat, and may Wabash win.  WAF

 

[wabashcpa]

Pretty sure the pile of crap was a hill of beans, but a hill of beans would certainly lead to a pile of crap.

[BashDad]

Ubiased observer here. I saw Wabash last Saturday at Wheaton and took a pretty good look at HSC and their team. I think Wabash is the heavy favorite but I will paint a picture of how HSC wins.

HSC is going to come out with an offense nothing like they sported a year ago. From what I can see they have 5 returning O-Linemen, one of whom is making the transition to H-back. They have a stud freshman TB, Kyree Koonce, was getting some D1 sniffs as a junior in HS before he broke his leg and now he wants to play for the love of the game. They have 2 semi experienced WR's and a TE who caught 7 balls last year but with decent size (6-4 240). Looks to me like they are preparing to play the ball control and play action game. That requires a pretty stout defense. On that side HSC has 2 returning DE's and their second leading tackler at LB. 2 other LB's have game experience and their secondary is the most experienced part of the team with Owens, Haskins and Henry. They are going to have to play 2 DL that are young and inexperienced. So they control the ball, get a couple play action bombs and then on defense they stack the box and let their veteran DB's cover 1 on 1. They get some turnovers, run 70 plays to Wabash's 50 and voila, a sweet V in Virginia.

Now there will be some credible doubters on here who wonder how an inexperienced defensive front will be able to stop 5 returning starters on the Bash OLine and the Zurek machine. I can see how the veteran Tiger secondary may limit the Wabash passing attack. So it boils down a game of strength on strength. That is the proven and dominant defensive front of the LG's vs the unproven, but experienced OL (plus Dalton Lee at H and KK pounding the rock) of HSC. These games are won up front and unless the Tigers are hiding some JJ Watt look alike's I have a hard time seeing how this veteran Wabash D is going to give up 200 yds and 3 TD's to a team that averaged 3.5 yds per carry and was a passing offense a year ago. 

I give credit to HSC for a head coach with a 111-46 record and a wild atmosphere with a long road trip for the visitors so I tend to think this may be closer than many of the LG posters believe, but I think Wabash wins this game even if they lose the turnover battle mainly because their strength isn't likely to become their weakness against a team that is changing its identity.

my two cents.

Some really good stuff here. Thanks, USEE.

I don't think, however, that HSC is going to trot out a different offense or otherwise have a wildly different identity. I still think they throw the ball 40+ times and take big shots down the field. Will their running game be better / more relied on? Maybe. But I don't think they're going to ground and pound.

[HSCTiger fan]

The weather is supposed to be hot hot hot on Satuday.  While I would suspect from HSC Tiger Fan ... nothing like weather bothers the vaunted Tigers, ... in real life this is a major factor.  Anyone have comments on how this may impact play, and  strategy.  From my following Wabash over the years and the ER coaching team, Wabash is deep and the two deep lineup will see lots of playing time and will go deeper. It will be interesting to see if the QBs go deeper as well.  I do know that , if this were a home game, lots would see the field.  Do not know what the travel team constraints will impose.

HSC Tiger Fan said there will be 8,000 to 10,000 fans for the HSC.  That will be fun.  I know Wabash fans will be there ... although traveling several states will cut the amount to less that HSC.  We will ... however ... support our team with gusto.  Look forward to meeting HSC fans and a great game.  HSC Tiger Fan ... where do these tailgates take place?  Is there a fence around the stadium or is it more open (from the pics, it looks more open).  I know HSC is charging Wabash fans for parking cars but not for tickets.  (A spin on the Dannies ... who charge for both and then throw in the gestapo for free.)

Here is for an injury free game in the heat, and may Wabash win.  WAF

There will be someone taking money as you drive in. You are right, there's a charge per car not per person. You guys will tailgate right beside the Tiger Rec Center. There is no fence around the stadium. The Tiger tailgaters will be every where. The biggest crowds will be around the lake and in the wooded area right in front of the Wabash group. You'll be parking about 200 yards to the back entrance of the stadium. There will be porta johns out but I suggest the ladies use the Rec Center facilities. The visitors side will be in direct sunlight all game. So wear a hat and bring some sun screen.

[wally_wabash]

Really good analysis, USee.  You've hit on a lot of points I had planned to make this week. 

The great unknown about this game is the Hampden-Sydney offense in the post-Nance era.  Are they going to fling it around still?  Are they going to search for more balance?   Who knows.  Previews would suggest that they might try running some more.  And Tiger fans might get excited and believe that gives them some kind of edge that they didn't have in 2014.  I'm skeptical that Hamden-Sydney can install an entirely new scheme AND have it be effective to the point that it's going to win this game.  We're not opening the season with Coast Guard here.  The following are Wabash's final national rankings in rush defense in the BJ Hammer era:

2014 - 1
2013 - 2
2012- 10
2011 - 5

If Marty wants to ground and pound -with a personnel group that has spent 2-3 years being geared toward not much else other than protecting Nash Nance- good luck.  The Kyree Koonce factor does intrigue me.  He looks like he's going to be awesome.  And he may give Wabash problems, but a lot of talented RBs have had their fair share of trouble getting away from the Little Giant defense.  We'll see how great the kid is on Saturday.  And for the record, I'm with BD on this one- I don't think HSC is completely revamping their offense.  They'll throw more than they'll run. 

For Wabash, the game plan won't vary much from what it has been for the last handful of years.  Methodical, run-first offense and high percentage passing.  Nothing too risky, nothing too dangerous.  Punting (on fourth down) is ok.  Turning it over and handing points to a defense is not.  Wabash dares teams to drive the field against their defense and score 3-4 times.  If you can, hat's off to you.  Good job.  It's a plan that works for Wabash far more often than it doesn't.  It's a really, really short list of teams that have been able to win the field position game against Wabash and Hampden-Sydney is not on that list.  It's not about scheme or luck or anything else.  It's about dudes.  Wabash has better dudes on that side of the ball than most teams.  It was too much for the Tigers to handle one year ago and my hunch is that it's too much to handle again on Saturday.  I think it takes turnovers (plural) in bad positions on the field for the Tigers be in this one at the end.  Can it happen?  Of course it can.  It just doesn't happen very often. 

Prediction: 34-13, LGs.  WAF.

[ExTartanPlayer]

You are right Wally. They did not do the same things. HSC won their conference Chapionship twice.

Now that's how you do talk some trash!  Well done, HSCTiger fan.  +K for this one.

Sorry but really good teams in DIII don't make the playoffs 1 time in 3 years and promptly get stomped in the second round.

This is a point that I've danced around very cautiously, as I'm pals with some of the guys on this board, but I think it's a semi-legitimate point, and it's absolutely fair to point this out.  I probably wouldn't be so harsh on the "promptly get stomped" point (we all know, or should know, that the luck of the draw in the second round makes a big difference between "promptly get stomped" and "making the quarterfinals") but it's still fair to point out that Wabash has been about 50-50 against high-level competition the last few years.

Is that relevant to their chances against HSC this weekend?  Probably not, since HSC isn't really a deep-playoff-caliber team this year.  But, in general, I appreciate HSCTigerfan's attempt to liven up the discussion around this game (and the aforementioned conference-champions shot is a HOF-caliber trash talk).  I think he at least gets points for effort.  And he does make a couple of legitimate points here.  Usee, also, did a really nice job of at least raising the "How could HSC win the game" argument, but didn't take the same heat because, uh, I guess because he's not an HSC fan.

[Pat Coleman]

I've seen Favret's offense do a lot of things in 21 seasons. Run-first offense? Maybe not, but with the right personnel he could call a pretty balanced game.

For H-SC to win here, I'd expect to see a defensive score, some of the Favret trickeration, and as much ball control as possible. One thing I have never really seen that offense do is run out the clock to win a big game. Not in their DNA. Not sure when to take their foot off the gas, and what to do with it then.

I think USee didn't get any flack because he has some actual credibility and didn't spend more than a week talking trash and puffing up his own program at the expense of a superior one. (But that's also because USee is a fan of a similarly respected program.)

[USee]

Usee, also, did a really nice job of at least raising the "How could HSC win the game" argument, but didn't take the same heat because, uh, I guess because he's not an HSC fan.

To be completely honest, the Randolph-Macon Head Coach (HSC's rival) is one of my favorite people in the world, former AA running back and Wheaton Alum, Pedro Aruzza.

[HSCTiger fan]

Most likely you guys will have to look it up to believe me but HSC has had more rushing attempts than passing attempts in each of last 3 years.  In 2013 the team ran for over 1800 yards with an experienced line. In 2011 pre Nance era they actually threw the ball 3746 yards on 499 attempts and had 1473 yards rushing on 394 attempts.  That season also had a 1000 yard rusher. Had you knowledgable NCAC board guys cared to look that up you could have seen it. I guess stats prior to 2012 only matter if you are a Wabash fan.

ExTarten thanks for pointing out how close mine and Usee's analysis was. Like I said hear what you want to hear.

[DadofBashWarrior..]

Am really pumped to be able to be at the game on Saturday...will also be seeing Appomattox Court House...Sailors Creek Battlefield...and High Bridge...


WABASH ALWAYS FIGHTS