FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[wabashsid]

BASHDAD - I have those exact words from Lee in my office on a print I picked up while visiting his tomb at Washington and Lee University.

By the way, tell Andrew congratulations on the new job, but he's much too young to be having children...I still think of him and the rest of that group as just graduating from Wabash recently! I'm getting much too old....

[jknezek]

BASHDAD - I have those exact words from Lee in my office on a print I picked up while visiting his tomb at Washington and Lee University.

By the way, tell Andrew congratulations on the new job, but he's much too young to be having children...I still think of him and the rest of that group as just graduating from Wabash recently! I'm getting much too old....

Yep. Those words are all over W&L's campus. Part of what I had to learn by rote during fraternity pledgeship. W&L is a little over an hour and a half up the road from Farmville. If you are making the 10 hour drive from Wabash and want to break it up, W&L is less than 10 minutes from where you very briefly get on I81 after crossing West Virginia on I64.  Pretty place to stop and visit. Lee's Chapel and tomb are a very nice museum, the historic colonnade has been almost completely renovated in the last decade, and VMI next door to W&L has a great military museum as well. Only place in the world you can see a Nobel Peace Prize, given to George Marshall for the post-WWII reconstruction known as the Marshall Plan, and an Oscar, given to the school by the director of the movie Patton, among a lot of other things. Both campuses are well worth a few hours walking, are very walkable, and are side by side. Lexington itself is a beautiful little town with some very good places to eat.

[Schwami]

OK, so who is most likely to have a "Moral Victory" this weekend?  OWU, Wooster, or H-SC  ?

I'm thinking OWU.

[DadofBashWarrior..]

BASHDAD - I have those exact words from Lee in my office on a print I picked up while visiting his tomb at Washington and Lee University.

By the way, tell Andrew congratulations on the new job, but he's much too young to be having children...I still think of him and the rest of that group as just graduating from Wabash recently! I'm getting much too old....

Yes Lee was an awesome Man and leader...just fighting on the wrong side in a very confusing time in history...

I will transmit your sentiments to Andrew...thank you...I may see you at the HSC and will have a cigar for you to (get ready now HSC Tiger Fan (seriously brace yourself)) celebrate the win.

Heads up on the future...Andrew married a great lady that was full ride scholarship in basketball...was the career leader in points and rebounds at the school and an incredible athlete...He has promised me any male child will make the NFL and prior to... be heading to Wabash...))
Thank you for your impressive work there...please know you are appreciated...he and I  have talked about in terms of each of the three schools he has coached at now.

[wally_wabash]

It's the Wabash posters trying to convince me I'm wrong. But yet no one has offered any plausible argument as to why Wabash over the last 3 years deserves such high praise.nationally.  I don't see it.

You said it all right there, friend.  You don't see it.  You don't see it because you haven't been looking.  People that pay attention to what's going on outside of their own favorite team and conference do see it and those people have overwhelming said, "you know what, Wabash is pretty good." 

In Division III everything is regional.  It's a Division-wide emphasis in fact.  But nothing is more acutely regional in Division III than our conferences.  You persist in trying to convince us all that your conference championship is a "national achievement".  It isn't.  It's a very regional achievement.  It's sub-regional.  Bragging that HSC has won their conference and Wabash hasn't isn't a useful debate point.  It's like bragging that you shot a better score from the white tees than your buddy did playing from the tips.  Neat, but you're not really playing the same game, are you? 

But let's look at the numbers through the national lens.  We already know Wabash has won more games.  Hampden-Sydney loses an awful lot for a "good" team.  But what else is there?  Let's check national rankings.  The whole division's game stats poured into one big pot.  What does it look like? 

Stat	Wabash	2014 Nat'l Rank	Hampden-Sydney	2014 Nat'l Rank
Total Offense	426.10	51	403.50	T-74
Rushing Offense	230.50	32	126.90	170
Passing Offense	195.60	141	276.50	33
Team Passing Efficiency	151.12	28	141.70	58
Scoring Offense	38.30	28	34.90	46
Total Defense	240.10	3	389.50	144
Rushing Defense	66.30	1	168.10	130
Passing Yards Allowed	173.80	45	221.40	165
Team Passing Efficiency Defense	104.56	37	118.86	102
Scoring Defense	14.00	12	27.50	133
Turnover Margin	0.25	80	-0.45	T-172
3rd Down Conversion Pct	0.37	T-136	0.30	207
4th Down Conversion Pct	0.68	14	0.59	33
3rd Down Conversion Pct Defense	0.29	16	0.34	55
4th Down Conversion Pct Defense	0.48	T-141	0.42	93
Red Zone Offense	0.76	121	0.78	103
Red Zone Defense	0.67	T-36	0.70	59
Net Punting	33	74	34	50
Punt Returns	8.17	98	9.82	64
Kickoff Returns	24.88	9	18.7	139
First Downs Offense	273	13	241	37
First Downs Defense	178	T-59	219	T-192
Fewest Penalties Per Game	7.42	188	6	T-101
Fewest Penalty Yards Per Game	67.17	178	54.27	98
Time of Possession	32:07	45	28:43	172

What about 2013?

Stat	Wabash	2013 Nat'l Rank	Hampden-Sydney	2013 Nat'l Rank
Total Offense	420.10	55	444.70	31
Rushing Offense	232.40	31	150.40	138
Passing Offense	187.70	159	294.30	18
Team Passing Efficiency	150.07	29	140.73	53
Scoring Offense	46.60	4	34.30	35
Total Defense	220.70	1	287.70	23
Rushing Defense	63.10	2	137.80	74
Passing Yards Allowed	157.60	23	149.90	16
Team Passing Efficiency Defense	96.15	16	93.14	11
Scoring Defense	11.30	4	19.30	T-51
Turnover Margin	2.40	1	-0.40	T-167
3rd Down Conversion Pct	0.36	154	0.41	75
4th Down Conversion Pct	0.38	T-190	0.48	112
3rd Down Conversion Pct Defense	0.23	1	0.33	43
4th Down Conversion Pct Defense	0.33	T-32	0.47	122
Red Zone Offense	0.89	10	0.82	T-52
Red Zone Defense	0.80	T-172	0.68	42
Net Punting	37.11	5	31.71	113
Punt Returns	11.46	37	9.17	79
Kickoff Returns	22.88	31	23.17	25
First Downs Offense	216.00	66	294.00	10
First Downs Defense	133.00	4	195.00	113
Fewest Penalties Per Game	7.90	219	5.58	85
Fewest Penalty Yards Per Game	70.30	208	54.67	121
Time of Possession	31:27	70	30:28	110

And that's why people think Wabash is pretty good, with or without a conference championship.  The game results tell us that Wabash is good.  That statistics tell us that Wabash is good- nationally.  The statistics tell us that Hampden-Sydney is just kind of ok.  Maybe a little less than ok with a defense that gives up 28 points and 400 yards per game and an offense, despite their great players, that can't stop turning the ball over.  That's why you can't win this.  There is not one single piece of factual evidence that supports your two-week crusade that HSC and  Wabash are basically equals on a football field.  Not by any reasonable measure is that the case. 

But hey...#ExpectToWin.  Right? 

[badgerwarhawk]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that Wabash beat Purdue 5x between 1906-11.  That seems about as relevant as much of the current discussion.   

[bashbrother]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that Wabash beat Purdue 5x between 1906-11.  That seems about as relevant as much of the current discussion. 

I believe this is where we got the name "Little Giants"

[wally_wabash]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that Wabash beat Purdue 5x between 1906-11.  That seems about as relevant as much of the current discussion. 

I believe this is where we got the Nickname "Little Giants"

Close.  The original "Little Giants" were in 1904- a nickname coined by a sports writer when discussing Wabash's performances against much larger schools, generally with much bigger, faster players.  I don't believe that 1904 team won any of those games against the bigger schools, but the name and the spirit endure to this day.   

[Sir Battlescars]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that Wabash beat Purdue 5x between 1906-11.  That seems about as relevant as much of the current discussion. 

Yeah! Don't you guys have jobs?

[BashDad]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that Wabash beat Purdue 5x between 1906-11.  That seems about as relevant as much of the current discussion. 

Yeah! Don't you guys have jobs?

FREELANCE, baby.

[HSCTiger fan]

I have been consistent in my message. Over three years Wabash has done less nationally than HSC.

...Wabash has been no more or less significant than HSC on the national stage over the last few years.

...no team in the ODAC is playing a role at the national level.

k

I said Wabash has done nothing more nationally.

HSC is not on the national scene.

That's not saying you guys aren't a better team or program.

Okay. Just what in the hell are we talking about anymore? We're a better program but we haven't done anything on the "national scene?" What? What does that mean? We beat teams from three different states last year, including you, advanced to the round of 16 (out of 247 teams), played the national champion tough (this after playing UMU tough in our last playoff appearance). We're ranked in the pre-season Top 10 for the second time in the last four years and the Pre-Season Rag of Record, Kickoff, ran a profile on this team regarding this very subject. So how come we can't, after all of this, claim to have done anything of "national significance?" Because we didn't beat Whitewater? Because we didn't win our conference? No. Sorry. Try again. The march of a program is about way a lot more than how much conference jewelry Team X collects and it's certainly not confined to an arbitrary three year window (the installing of which, by the way, has everything to do with the only 30 minutes in recent memory when your team had any clout).

You are persisting because your team, relative to mine, hasn't done anything; because you got beat a year ago and are about to lose again; and because the only distinguishing marks between HSC and Wabash are a couple extra championship rings that no-one outside the ODAC actually cares about, two of which are shared, and none of which have anything to do with what happens on Saturday or how the country perceives the programs relative to one another -- which, final point, isn't something I, or you, have to guess at.

You did see my message was consistent. You left out the many times I've said that Wabash is a top 90% team. You say you beat teams from 3 different states. That's a weak point to help make your argument. We won games from 3 states and Washington DC. I've never thought that would make us nationally recognized. I agree no one outside of the ODAC cares. I hate to tell you this but no one outside of the NCAC cares as to who wins the NCAC either. You might find this hard to believe but the winner of the Monone Bell doesn't make the local news here either.  I called my friend last year who lives in southern Illinois to meet us at the game. He played DIII Football. He had heard of Wabash but had no clue where Wabash College was from his house. He's an avid sports fan. He lives 3 hours from Crawfordsville. I'll call him today and ask but I bet he's got no idea as to what is the Monone Bell. Your national attention hasn't quite made it to your neighboring state.

I choose the small window because there are no players left on these teams left from 2011.  I still have no idea as to what you guys call the measuring stick. Wally posted 2 years of stats against some of the lousiest competition in D3.  Your schedule this year has games against 5 teams that rank 172 and below. 4 of which are ranked below 200?!  You went 9-1 in 2012 in the midst of your preceived national presence but did not make the playoffs. Why? Because you won 9 games against what for the most part were lousy teams. You did the same thing last year and got in. The difference?  You best a CONFERENCE CHAMPION. Your welcome and you might want to thank Guilford for beating EH in the last game of the season. You may beat the hell out of us this week. If you do, you better hope we win the ODAC again becuase if we don't and your guys lose to Witt again. You'll be one of those first outs again.

I admit we are not on the national scene. You guys can believe your stats against the bottom 1/10th of the DIII world and keep telling yourself that wins in 3 states, wins over Depauw and not winning your conference makes you relavent nationally. I bet if the LGS repeat of their accomplishments of the last 3 years the next 3 years no one will buy what you're seling.

So welcome to HSC this weekend. Where you'll find true southern gentlemen. (I'm not an alum). I may be a thorn in your sides for a couple of weeks, I enjoy it. But I have I learned why no one consistanly posts on this board from other teams. You guys pile on them and push them out so you can sit around and tell yourselves how good you are.  Hey it works for you.

Sir Battlescars, I do not. I was forced to retire due to Parkinson's disease at 45 years old. It sucks but you take what you get and go with it. Football is a welcomed distraction. These boards are fun. I enjoy the exchange with all these guys.  They give me hell I give it back. It's all in good fun for me but it seems a little more than that to some.

[wally_wabash]

So welcome to HSC this weekend. Where you'll find true southern gentlemen. (I'm not an alum).

[Dr. Acula]

As someone who has been laid up recovering from surgery this week I want to thank HSC and all the Bash guys.  You guys have made for some entertaining reading while I'm stuck at home!

[HSCTiger fan]

OK, so who is most likely to have a "Moral Victory" this weekend?  OWU, Wooster, or H-SC  ?

I'm thinking OWU.

HSC doesn't play for moral victories. Certainly not against teams they feel they can beat.

[HSCTiger fan]

As someone who has been laid up recovering from surgery this week I want to thank HSC and all the Bash guys.  You guys have made for some entertaining reading while I'm stuck at home!

I know a little about recovering from surgery. It stinks. I hope you get well very soon.