FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Schwami]

I like how Zurek makes up for his lack of size with his lack of speed 

[USee]

They COULD be undefeated at this point, if they didn't have Mount Union on the schedule until late in the year.  It's been mentioned in a few places that they bottom half of the OAC is comparable to the bottom half of the NCAC. 

I don't think that it is, though.

Allegheny vs. Muskingum
Hiram vs. Wilmington
Wooster vs. Marietta
Kenyon vs. Capital
Ohio Wesleyan vs. Heidelberg

Still give me the group on the right.

Instead, if DePauw had beaten Earlham (still, ouch), Marietta, Wilmington Capital and Muskingum, would that have made a difference? Playing Wittenberg was better for their ranking than playing the OAC No. 3, currently Otterbein or Baldwin Wallace. Probably similar if you consider Ohio Northern to be the OAC No. 3.

When you look at it carefully as you've done, no, it doesn't help.  If you just redact the team name and say "here's a 6-0 OAC team that isn't Mount Union and they have the 220th ranked SOS", some people might just plop them down in the top 15 on general principle even though they haven't done anything except exist in a conference with Mount Union.

Who are these mysterious people Wally? I have seen exactly ONE person come close to this and he is in the West. I think you have been on this soap box a bit too long for little reason.

[BashDad]

They COULD be undefeated at this point, if they didn't have Mount Union on the schedule until late in the year.  It's been mentioned in a few places that they bottom half of the OAC is comparable to the bottom half of the NCAC. 

I don't think that it is, though.

Allegheny vs. Muskingum
Hiram vs. Wilmington
Wooster vs. Marietta
Kenyon vs. Capital
Ohio Wesleyan vs. Heidelberg

Still give me the group on the right.

Instead, if DePauw had beaten Earlham (still, ouch), Marietta, Wilmington Capital and Muskingum, would that have made a difference? Playing Wittenberg was better for their ranking than playing the OAC No. 3, currently Otterbein or Baldwin Wallace. Probably similar if you consider Ohio Northern to be the OAC No. 3.

When you look at it carefully as you've done, no, it doesn't help.  If you just redact the team name and say "here's a 6-0 OAC team that isn't Mount Union and they have the 220th ranked SOS", some people might just plop them down in the top 15 on general principle even though they haven't done anything except exist in a conference with Mount Union.

Who are these mysterious people Wally? I have seen exactly ONE person come close to this and he is in the West. I think you have been on this soap box a bit too long for little reason.

http://d3football.com/top25/2015/week7

[USee]

So Pat Coleman is the man behind the curtain? He is also the guy doing the in depth analysis that Wally applauds. Sorry BashDad, try again.

[ExTartanPlayer]

So Pat Coleman is the man behind the curtain? He is also the guy doing the in depth analysis that Wally applauds. Sorry BashDad, try again.

Pat C is not the entire panel of Top 25 voters.

Or is he?

[USee]

I don't know, you will have to ask BashDad. He posted the poll as an answer to a specific question of "who". Did he mean everyone? Pat? Some? No clue. Speed of the leader, speed of the pack. Posting the top 25 poll as an answer to "Who are these people" implies that the people are the voters of the top 25. Pat is the leader of that group and he picked them. I think they are pretty credible no?

[wabndy]

When you look at it carefully as you've done, no, it doesn't help.  If you just redact the team name and say "here's a 6-0 OAC team that isn't Mount Union and they have the 220th ranked SOS", some people might just plop them down in the top 15 on general principle even though they haven't done anything except exist in a conference with Mount Union.

Considering how many voters use last year's results as a starting point and adjust accordingly - I don't think DePauw would be there even in the OAC.  This is a team that has gone 4-5, 2-8, 4-6, and 7-3 (with only 1 win against a > .500 team) since their last trip to the playoffs. 


I'm not even sure DePauw breaks into the top 25 this week with a win against the Bishops (something that I'm not willing to declare a foregone conclusion).  Their SOS is going to continue to be exceptionally low until they play Denison in two weeks.


All that being said - their is still destiny is very much in their hands.  I'll be interested to see's wallys predictions if, presuming both wabash and depauw are 9-0, if the bell loser could still host a playoff game.

[ExTartanPlayer]

I don't know, you will have to ask BashDad. He posted the poll as an answer to a specific question of "who". Did he mean everyone? Pat? Some? No clue. Speed of the leader, speed of the pack. Posting the top 25 poll as an answer to "Who are these people" implies that the people are the voters of the top 25. Pat is the leader of that group and he picked them. I think they are pretty credible no?

I have posted elsewhere in defense of the D3 top 25, and for all the difficulties in comparing teams across different regions of the country with virtually no common opponents I think they do a pretty good job.  There are a couple individual rankings that I find particularly galling at the moment (Wartburg staying at #22 with Dubuque unranked, for my reasons detailed in the Top 25 fan poll thread, and to a lesser extent John Carroll still being ranked #18 with ONU unranked, although that's not as bad with the h2h result being much less decisive and ONU carrying an ugly loss to BW).  I think Illinois Wesleyan is actually a little under-ranked for now.  But overall I think the poll is pretty good.

[wally_wabash]

So Pat Coleman is the man behind the curtain? He is also the guy doing the in depth analysis that Wally applauds. Sorry BashDad, try again.

Pat C is not the entire panel of Top 25 voters.

Or is he?

I don't know, you will have to ask BashDad. He posted the poll as an answer to a specific question of "who". Did he mean everyone? Pat? Some? No clue. Speed of the leader, speed of the pack. Posting the top 25 poll as an answer to "Who are these people" implies that the people are the voters of the top 25. Pat is the leader of that group and he picked them. I think they are pretty credible no?

The Top 25 poll is ranking John Carroll for no good reason.  Why?  #2 OAC (and they're not even really that).  I mean there's not another reason for it.  And I'm not saying that there is gross negligence going on with the voters- it's a really, really easy thing to do without even realizing that it's happening.  Heck, I catch myself doing this with North region teams a number of times each season.  We gravitate to those teams almost automatically, especially at the tail end of rankings ballots when things get murky. 

[wally_wabash]

All that being said - their is still destiny is very much in their hands.  I'll be interested to see's wallys predictions if, presuming both wabash and depauw are 9-0, if the bell loser could still host a playoff game.

Host?  The Bell loser is going to be walking a tightrope just to make the field.  The committee doesn't like teams that play Earlham by choice.  Even with games to come vs. Denison and Wabash, DePauw's SOS will be about as bad as it can possibly be coming from a league that plays a 10 team full round robin.  Earlham, an 0-10 team from a league that doesn't really win any OOC games is pretty much a worst case scenario for SOS purposes. 

[ExTartanPlayer]

The Top 25 poll is ranking John Carroll for no good reason.  Why?  #2 OAC (and they're not even really that).  I mean there's not another reason for it.

I actually think it's "they were really good last year and people didn't want to drop them too far after one loss" rather than #2 OAC.  I do think there's at least a little something to the league/region thing, but I think a larger factor is the anchor-and-adjust where people don't like to shake their poll up too radically, and they don't like outright dropping a team that was in the top 10 before they lost (even if they probably should) or moving a team in that wasn't even on the radar before that week. 

[USee]

So Pat Coleman is the man behind the curtain? He is also the guy doing the in depth analysis that Wally applauds. Sorry BashDad, try again.

Pat C is not the entire panel of Top 25 voters.

Or is he?

I don't know, you will have to ask BashDad. He posted the poll as an answer to a specific question of "who". Did he mean everyone? Pat? Some? No clue. Speed of the leader, speed of the pack. Posting the top 25 poll as an answer to "Who are these people" implies that the people are the voters of the top 25. Pat is the leader of that group and he picked them. I think they are pretty credible no?

The Top 25 poll is ranking John Carroll for no good reason.  Why?  #2 OAC (and they're not even really that).  I mean there's not another reason for it.  And I'm not saying that there is gross negligence going on with the voters- it's a really, really easy thing to do without even realizing that it's happening.  Heck, I catch myself doing this with North region teams a number of times each season.  We gravitate to those teams almost automatically, especially at the tail end of rankings ballots when things get murky.

That's helpful. So, to be clear, "some people" in your original post is meant to refer to "some top 25 voters" and more specifically, to the treatment of JCU?

[wally_wabash]

That's helpful. So, to be clear, "some people" in your original post is meant to refer to "some top 25 voters" and more specifically, to the treatment of JCU?

JCU is the most glaring example at the moment.  Wartburg is another.  But to this conversation specifically, if any OAC team had DePauw's record and profile right now, they'd be in the top 15.  I have zero doubt about that.  That's just the landscape at the moment. 

[Pat Coleman]

So Pat Coleman is the man behind the curtain? He is also the guy doing the in depth analysis that Wally applauds. Sorry BashDad, try again.

Pat C is not the entire panel of Top 25 voters.

Or is he?

Oh god, I would not have time for that.

[Pat Coleman]

That's helpful. So, to be clear, "some people" in your original post is meant to refer to "some top 25 voters" and more specifically, to the treatment of JCU?

JCU is the most glaring example at the moment.  Wartburg is another.  But to this conversation specifically, if any OAC team had DePauw's record and profile right now, they'd be in the top 15.  I have zero doubt about that.  That's just the landscape at the moment.

I really don't think so -- based on the resume I laid out above, I can't see DePauw being in the Top 15 merely by being in the OAC. They weren't a quarterfinalist last year like your two "glaring example" teams above and they haven't beaten someone that would put them in the Top 15 on this year.

Unless you keep mistyping and mean "top 25" instead of top 15, I can't see your claim being realistic.